BoxRec

I heard a while back (cant remember for the life of me where) that Liston was never 100% sure of his real age (something to do with him being from a family of slaves)...and he said that when he fought Ali that he was around mid 30's-early 40's...is this true or just a rumour or did i just dream this???....(boxrec has his birth date as 1932-05-08 so according to that date would have been around 32 when he fought ali)

whatsinaname wrote:

Jesus wrote:I heard a while back (cant remember for the life of me where) that Liston was never 100% sure of his real age (something to do with him being from a family of slaves)...and he said that when he fought Ali that he was around mid 30's-early 40's...is this true or just a rumour or did i just dream this???....(boxrec has his birth date as 1932-05-08 so according to that date would have been around 32 when he fought ali)

Slavery ended in 1863. Many blacks in the Jim Crow South didn't have birth certificates. However I don't think slavery had anything to do with Sonny's lack of a birth certificate.

BTW, both fights were worked.

so it is true that Liston wasnt sure of his age???

Reportly his family carved it on a tree when he was born,but the tree had been cut down years before.

why have some of the posts been removed from this thread???

It's become commonly accepted that Liston's reported age is/was inaccurate. I know one piece of evidence is a police report which if Liston's listed age had been correct, Sonny would've been 6 years old at the time of the crime! I've heard Liston was anywhere from 35 to 40 when he fought Ali.

The US Goverment released the 1930 US census a few years back(they could not release any census for the public until 75 years after its taken).
According to his mother who was interviewed by NEWSWEEK in 1962 when he became champ.
Sonny was born between Curtis and Wesley(the youngest).

"His mother believed he was born in January, 1928, but Liston would later claim his birth date to be May 8, 1932."

I think Curtis was listed as youngest in the 1930 census.

Going by the census, aprroximately 35-36 sounds pretty close to the money. He was certainly older than his reported 32, but I am skeptical of this idea he was 40 or beyond.

He was born on May 8, 1932. The first fight was on February 25, 1964. That would make him 31. The seoncd fight he had just turned 33. However, since this is Ali we are talking about, anything goes.

Ambling Alp wrote:He was born on May 8, 1932. The first fight was on February 25, 1964. That would make him 31. The seoncd fight he had just turned 33. However, since this is Ali we are talking about, anything goes.

Whatever makes Ali look better, I suppose

You nailed it, Alp. The whole thread is a thinly-veiled disguise to impress upon people Liston was as old as possible, in the hopes of tearing down Ali.

Any chance we could make the topic of Liston's age about Liston, not an Ali conspiracy theory!? Just a thought.

dempseyfire wrote:It's become commonly accepted that Liston's reported age is/was inaccurate. I know one piece of evidence is a police report which if Liston's listed age had been correct, Sonny would've been 6 years old at the time of the crime! I've heard Liston was anywhere from 35 to 40 when he fought Ali.

...& the crime alleged?

I can't remember what it was exactly but it was something fairly serious like assault or burglary.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:It's become commonly accepted that Liston's reported age is/was inaccurate. I know one piece of evidence is a police report which if Liston's listed age had been correct, Sonny would've been 6 years old at the time of the crime! I've heard Liston was anywhere from 35 to 40 when he fought Ali.[/quotehttp://boxrec.com/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&f=4&p=2559491#]

...& the crime alleged?

yeah,especially when one can out right lie about being a medal of honour receipt starting from now.
wonder if you can lie about being a seven circuit court judge too now?

Jesus wrote:I heard a while back (cant remember for the life of me where) that Liston was never 100% sure of his real age (something to do with him being from a family of slaves)...and he said that when he fought Ali that he was around mid 30's-early 40's...is this true or just a rumour or did i just dream this???....(boxrec has his birth date as 1932-05-08 so according to that date would have been around 32 when he fought ali)

Beleive me when Liston fought Ali he was already in his 40's

Actually it is the 1930 US Federal Census thats on-line over at http://www.ancestry.com.
Tobin(Tobe) and Helen Liston of St.Francis Arkansas.
Its been a while since Ive seen it,but if Charles"Sonny"Liston was born before 1930 he would be be listed.
He was the second youngest between Curtis and Wesley according to his mother.

just want to say i did not start this thread to take away any credit from ali! if you see some of my previous posts im a big ali fan and i even rate him number 1 p4p of all time! i just heard this rumour and found it interesting and wanted to get some opinions of boxing fans with more knowledge then myself.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:He was born on May 8, 1932. The first fight was on February 25, 1964. That would make him 31. The seoncd fight he had just turned 33. However, since this is Ali we are talking about, anything goes.

Whatever makes Ali look better, I suppose

You nailed it, Alp. The whole thread is a thinly-veiled disguise to impress upon people Liston was as old as possible, in the hopes of tearing down Ali.

Any chance we could make the topic of Liston's age about Liston, not an Ali conspiracy theory!? Just a thought.

Oh please. The only reason that you care is so that it would look like he was too old when he fought Ali.

To believe that he was 5 years older would have to believe a lot of extremely unlikely things, including:

-The census was wrong.
-His own mother was about 5 years off on his age.
-He would not have turned pro until he was about 26. (His first pro fight was in 1953.)
-The heavyweight champion of the world was passing himself off as 5 years younger than he was and nobody from his past says anything to the media.
Nobody that went to school with him and knows his approximate age says anything. Nobody from his neighborhood that he grew up says anything.

Jesus wrote:just want to say i did not start this thread to take away any credit from ali! if you see some of my previous posts im a big ali fan and i even rate him number 1 p4p of all time! i just heard this rumour and found it interesting and wanted to get some opinions of boxing fans with more knowledge then myself.

Yes it appears that the orignator was evaporated.

I guess we will have to wait until 2015,when the Goverment releases the 1940 census to know for sure.

"...Oh please. The only reason that you care is so that it would look like he was too old when he fought Ali..." - Alp

That is completely untrue, & a total aside to the issue. In point of fact, this is just the type of, "Ali-Defense Paranaoia" some on this forum have expressed concerns over in the past --- that whole conversations can steer south because Ali is incorrectly perceived to be under attack. Simply, you view this topic as unworthy of interest in its own right --- nobody could possibly be curious about Liston, it has to be an attack on the only interesting man feasibly in the conversation. I'm sure if he had his time again, the thread originator would re-phrase to simply ask Liston's real age, independent of this most-discussed point of his career.

"...To believe that he was 5 years older would have to believe a lot of extremely unlikely things, including:

-The census was wrong.
-His own mother was about 5 years off on his age.
-He would not have turned pro until he was about 26. (His first pro fight was in 1953.)
-The heavyweight champion of the world was passing himself off as 5 years younger than he was and nobody from his past says anything to the media.
Nobody that went to school with him and knows his approximate age says anything. Nobody from his neighborhood that he grew up says anything."

Such points would be difficult to believe with a fighter now --- not then. Hell, my father has trouble remembering the birthdays of his four children...the Liston's had over twenty kids! If you really buy Liston's age birthdate was as reported, you are in a very small minority indeed --- even amongst your brethren.

Jesus wrote:just want to say i did not start this thread to take away any credit from ali! if you see some of my previous posts im a big ali fan and i even rate him number 1 p4p of all time! i just heard this rumour and found it interesting and wanted to get some opinions of boxing fans with more knowledge then myself.

Good luck convincing some. A veiled slight at Ali has been detected (whether real or imagined), & it's, "Katie, bar the door" mode now...

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Jesus wrote:just want to say i did not start this thread to take away any credit from ali! if you see some of my previous posts im a big ali fan and i even rate him number 1 p4p of all time! i just heard this rumour and found it interesting and wanted to get some opinions of boxing fans with more knowledge then myself.

Good luck convincing some. A veiled slight at Ali has been detected (whether real or imagined), & it's, "Katie, bar the door" mode now...

Goodnight, Irene wrote:"...Oh please. The only reason that you care is so that it would look like he was too old when he fought Ali..." - Alp

That is completely untrue, & a total aside to the issue. In point of fact, this is just the type of, "Ali-Defense Paranaoia" some on this forum have expressed concerns over in the past --- that whole conversations can steer south because Ali is incorrectly perceived to be under attack. Simply, you view this topic as unworthy of interest in its own right --- nobody could possibly be curious about Liston, it has to be an attack on the only interesting man feasibly in the conversation. I'm sure if he had his time again, the thread originator would re-phrase to simply ask Liston's real age, independent of this most-discussed point of his career.

"...To believe that he was 5 years older would have to believe a lot of extremely unlikely things, including:

-The census was wrong.
-His own mother was about 5 years off on his age.
-He would not have turned pro until he was about 26. (His first pro fight was in 1953.)
-The heavyweight champion of the world was passing himself off as 5 years younger than he was and nobody from his past says anything to the media.
Nobody that went to school with him and knows his approximate age says anything. Nobody from his neighborhood that he grew up says anything."

Such points would be difficult to believe with a fighter now --- not then. Hell, my father has trouble remembering the birthdays of his four children...the Liston's had over twenty kids! If you really buy Liston's age birthdate was as reported, you are in a very small minority indeed --- even amongst your brethren.

Oh my mistake. You were just curious when Sonny Liston was born, nothing more. Sure.
Such points would be difficult to believe? Huh?
Would your dad know if someone said you were 5 years younger than you really are? I would almost any parent would know. His mother would certainly know which brothers and sisters he was younger and older than and would within a year, even assuming she doesn't have it written down.
You really think Liston was fighting as an amatuer up until he was 25 or 26? That would make little sense.
You really think no one else would that really knows his apporximate age would not have said anything? Come on.

I would hope that most people believe he was as old as the record books, boxrec, the census, his mother all say. Of course a lot people prefer to bleieve a good story even if flies in the face of the evidence.
I think the people that feel the need to start anti-Ali post every week probably don't believe that Liston was born in 1932. (This is not to say that the originator of this post is anti-Ali or not.)

You think that myself and my "brethen" are obessed with Ali? Go look how many posts I have started about Ali. There was one in four years. how about you? How many Ali posts have you started?

When was the last time anyone has started a pro-Ali thread? You may have to go back years. In that time there probably has been over a 100 anti-Ali threads.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:He was born on May 8, 1932. The first fight was on February 25, 1964. That would make him 31. The seoncd fight he had just turned 33. However, since this is Ali we are talking about, anything goes.

Whatever makes Ali look better, I suppose

You nailed it, Alp. The whole thread is a thinly-veiled disguise to impress upon people Liston was as old as possible, in the hopes of tearing down Ali.

Any chance we could make the topic of Liston's age about Liston, not an Ali conspiracy theory!? Just a thought.

Getting kind of paranoid in your old age eh bruce?
BTW i'm one of Ali's biggest fans, but I'm still convinced Liston was an old man (40ish) when he fought Clay.
People have to understand the time and place Liston was born in. Its very feasible his own mother might have trouble remembering especially given how huge his family was, the lack of records, the hand to mouth living etc etc.