BoxRec

Kostya Tyszu
Ricky Hatton
Chavez
Camacho
Mayweather Jr
Pacquaio
Judah

Prime vs Prime assuming SuperLigtweight Division

Kostya catches him and KO's him in mid rounds
Ricky probably finds a way to get out hustled
Chavez wins a SD or UD
Camacho wins a UD
Mayweather Jr wins a UD
Pacquaio KO's him
Judah finds a way to get out hustled, and possibly KO'd.

Kostya Tyszu-Pryor wins by wearing Kostya down
Ricky Hatton-Pryor out Hattons Ricky
Chavez-Chavez closely in a great contest
Camacho-Depends with Camacho turns up...though I can Pryor getting to him
Mayweather Jr-Floyd out boxes him as Leonard would have
Pacquaio-Thriller but Pryor...just...
Judah-Pryor stops him mid-late

Wow buzz, guess you are not a Pryor fan. You honestly think Camacho beats him and the likes of Hatton and Judah just "find ways to get outhustled"???? Pryor would've destroyed those two.

Pryor beats them all prime for prime besides maybe Chavez and possibly Pacquao.

His team timed Cervantes career perfectly, as they did Arguellos, Pryor dropped out of his prime faster than a speeding bullet. NO ONE has ever matched his speed, (at least the speed of his descent.)
One of the most over rated fighters you'll ever analyze. That's not saying he didn't turn in two or three very good performances, even if he had a sip of "Blue Bull" to get him through one of them.

I only wish he would have faced Duran or Leonard in order to quell all the conjecture. If so his stock would be down around Chrysler's.

Fights with Chavez & Pacquiao, in particular among those listed, would have been epic, fever-pitch skirmishes.

G.I. I would go along with that, he had the ability to be very energized, and if he couldn't find the inner strength he could always outsource the energy needed.

However, Do you see him winning either the Chavez or PacMan events?

BoxBuzz wrote:G.I. I would go along with that, he had the ability to be very energized, and if he couldn't find the inner strength he could always outsource the energy needed.

However, Do you see him winning either the Chavez or PacMan events?

I think he beats Pacquiao by late KO after being dropped himself and loses to Chavez by close decision. He had a great chin and stamina as good as either of them, but his power was significant as well. Pacquiao's defense consists mostly of in-and-out evasive movement so he would've been hit plenty by The Hawk, and while Aaron would've been the boxer in the Chavez matchup, I think Julio's bodywork would've tolled on him.

I do think that Tzyu would spark him as I think he would have Hatton in his prime. And yes Pryor may be able to out Hatton Hatton, I just don't think by much.


A Leonard, or a Duran encounter would have gone far to end these rather imaginative speculations that he was somehow a great. I had a close up view to his career, and early on I cheered him on. However I hold on to the belief that he had a great deal of luck, perfect management, and was a bit of a magic act including all the "smoke" and mirrors associated with such a production.

BoxBuzz wrote:His team timed Cervantes career perfectly, as they did Arguellos, Pryor dropped out of his prime faster than a speeding bullet. NO ONE has ever matched his speed, (at least the speed of his descent.)
One of the most over rated fighters you'll ever analyze. That's not saying he didn't turn in two or three very good performances, even if he had a sip of "Blue Bull" to get him through one of them.

I only wish he would have faced Duran or Leonard in order to quell all the conjecture. If so his stock would be down around Chrysler's.

None of them wanted to fight him.

BoxBuzz wrote:G.I. I would go along with that, he had the ability to be very energized, and if he couldn't find the inner strength he could always outsource the energy needed.

However, Do you see him winning either the Chavez or PacMan events?

I see it as Weapon outlined. Gets off the deck to win a scorcher by the skin of his teeth against Pacquiao --- & loses narrowly on points to Chavez.

You could quite feasibly reverse either result, IMO. He could beat them both --- he could lose to them both.

IKSRTFO wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:His team timed Cervantes career perfectly, as they did Arguellos, Pryor dropped out of his prime faster than a speeding bullet. NO ONE has ever matched his speed, (at least the speed of his descent.)
One of the most over rated fighters you'll ever analyze. That's not saying he didn't turn in two or three very good performances, even if he had a sip of "Blue Bull" to get him through one of them.

I only wish he would have faced Duran or Leonard in order to quell all the conjecture. If so his stock would be down around Chrysler's.

None of them wanted to fight him.

The premise that "none of them wanted to fight him" is at least possible. But it would have NOTHING to do with there lack of confidence at succeeding. If what you say has any basis in fact it would have been only that they felt that the money would not be there.

I've said it before and it bares repeating. The ONLY fight a Pryor and Duran event would have ever produced, would be the fight between Pryor and the 5 guys it would take to drag him into the ring to face Roberto. I think the same probably holds true for SRL.

Weigh in time differences would mean that Hatton and Judah would have big size advantages.

I'd still expect pryor to KO Judah late.

Hatton? I'm 50-50 on when consideing the sizes...

I think he gets beaten by the rest but I think they'd all be very exciting fights.

He might get to Camacho and finish him. He might be able to outwork Floyd. he has a chance in those.

Chavez wasn't as good at 140. He had lost a beat by then. I think he can still beat Pryor though.

Kostya and Pacquaio both KO him.

Ezzard wrote:Weigh in time differences would mean that Hatton and Judah would have big size advantages.

I'd still expect pryor to KO Judah late.

Hatton? I'm 50-50 on when consideing the sizes...

I think he gets beaten by the rest but I think they'd all be very exciting fights.

He might get to Camacho and finish him. He might be able to outwork Floyd. he has a chance in those.

Chavez wasn't as good at 140. He had lost a beat by then. I think he can still beat Pryor though.

Kostya and Pacquaio both KO him.

Neither Judah nor Hatton were ever huge drainers though. Hatton regularly weighed in the low-150's during his prime while Judah tended to weigh in the high-140's, so with Pryor-Hatton we're looking at maybe 10 lbs. at the most. Manny and Kostya at LWW were as big as Judah as well.

If Arguello couldn't KO him Pacquiao wouldn't, Pacquiao isn't any more powerful than Alexis was and is less accurate. Speaking of Manny as well, if this is a same-day weigh-in fight at 140, you can't use the Pacquiao who fought Hatton, because he's too big, it would have to be the Pacquiao circa-Morales trilogy who ranged between 139 and 143 on fight night.

Diamond WEAPON wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Weigh in time differences would mean that Hatton and Judah would have big size advantages.

I'd still expect pryor to KO Judah late.

Hatton? I'm 50-50 on when consideing the sizes...

I think he gets beaten by the rest but I think they'd all be very exciting fights.

He might get to Camacho and finish him. He might be able to outwork Floyd. he has a chance in those.

Chavez wasn't as good at 140. He had lost a beat by then. I think he can still beat Pryor though.

Kostya and Pacquaio both KO him.

Neither Judah nor Hatton were ever huge drainers though. Hatton regularly weighed in the low-150's during his prime while Judah tended to weigh in the high-140's, so with Pryor-Hatton we're looking at maybe 10 lbs. at the most. Manny and Kostya at LWW were as big as Judah as well.

If Arguello couldn't KO him Pacquiao wouldn't, Pacquiao isn't any more powerful than Alexis was and is less accurate. Speaking of Manny as well, if this is a same-day weigh-in fight at 140, you can't use the Pacquiao who fought Hatton, because he's too big, it would have to be the Pacquiao circa-Morales trilogy who ranged between 139 and 143 on fight night.

I still doubt they'd make 140 on fight day and if they did it would compromise them. if we play it that way then Aaron definitely beats both men.

Pac would KO him. Pryor got dropped many times in his career because of poor balance and crazy footwork. Pac would have the points on the board and would have Pryor meeting him head on.

pryor beats them all,

Poor balance and crazy footwork doesn't mean Pacquiao KO's him. His randomness would've given Pacquiao fits much like Agapito Sanchez did, only Pryor is better than Sanchez. Pacquiao looks like a beast against guys who come straight at him with their chins hanging out, but give him an opponent with a modicum of lateral ability and he looks like his head is gonna explode.

Diamond WEAPON wrote:Poor balance and crazy footwork doesn't mean Pacquiao KO's him. His randomness would've given Pacquiao fits much like Agapito Sanchez did, only Pryor is better than Sanchez. Pacquiao looks like a beast against guys who come straight at him with their chins hanging out, but give him an opponent with a modicum of lateral ability and he looks like his head is gonna explode.

To be fair, Pacquiao is also a good deal better than he was when he faced Sanchez, too.

A fight between Pacquiao & Pryor is grand, grand stuff. I hypothesised a trilogy on it a ways back...had Pacquiao stunning the living hell out of Pryor with his unique blend of speed, power & activity to score two smashing knockdowns in round one, & Pryor survived, but never really recovered, getting stopped on cuts in six rounds. Pryor won an epic encounter in the rematch, getting off the deck once & flooring Pacquiao twice, en route to a 13th round TKO. Pryor took a dramatic split-decision over fifteen rounds in the decider, with each man down once apiece.

It's tough for me to split them head-to-head. Pacquiao is miles out in front on resume.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Diamond WEAPON wrote:Poor balance and crazy footwork doesn't mean Pacquiao KO's him. His randomness would've given Pacquiao fits much like Agapito Sanchez did, only Pryor is better than Sanchez. Pacquiao looks like a beast against guys who come straight at him with their chins hanging out, but give him an opponent with a modicum of lateral ability and he looks like his head is gonna explode.

To be fair, Pacquiao is also a good deal better than he was when he faced Sanchez, too.

A fight between Pacquiao & Pryor is grand, grand stuff. I hypothesised a trilogy on it a ways back...had Pacquiao stunning the living hell out of Pryor with his unique blend of speed, power & activity to score two smashing knockdowns in round one, & Pryor survived, but never really recovered, getting stopped on cuts in six rounds. Pryor won an epic encounter in the rematch, getting off the deck once & flooring Pacquiao twice, en route to a 13th round TKO. Pryor took a dramatic split-decision over fifteen rounds in the decider, with each man down once apiece.

It's tough for me to split them head-to-head. Pacquiao is miles out in front on resume.

That's probably a good way of it playing out... As far as Pacquiao's resume goes though, it's inflated. His wins at 126 and 130 mean a lot more than the more recent ones on his resume. Too much cherry-picking against suspect opponents a couple of years removed from their relative primes coming off of lackluster appearances. Arguello was still seen as a killer when Pryor fought him.

I don't see it that way. People were absolutely laughing --- doubling over, I remember it clearly --- at the prospect of Pacquiao ever sharing a ring with Hatton as little as 12-18 months before it happened. A fight with De La Hoya? Totally, totally unthinkable --- a mismatch of epic proportions. Cotto was only on your radar as a Pacquiao fan if you were a card-carrying member of an asylum.

I certainly acknowledge De La Hoya, Hatton & Cotto wer past their peaks. Only one was shot (De La Hoya, & while the draining played a significant part in his downfall, I won't make excuses for my man --- he was thoroughly whipped) & Hatton & Cotto, in different manners, were totally devastated.

I sometimes feel Pacquiao's ease of victory sullies these results, like the opponents are so unbelievable, they must've been shot or washed-up for Pacquiao not only to win, but to cruise by them. I think it has more to do with Pacquiao's brilliance than their states.

No argument on Arguello, for sure --- but Pryor is relatively-light beyond him. Had a great career, but it isn't a patch on Pacquiao's. Not even close.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I don't see it that way. People were absolutely laughing --- doubling over, I remember it clearly --- at the prospect of Pacquiao ever sharing a ring with Hatton as little as 12-18 months before it happened. A fight with De La Hoya? Totally, totally unthinkable --- a mismatch of epic proportions. Cotto was only on your radar as a Pacquiao fan if you were a card-carrying member of an asylum.

I certainly acknowledge De La Hoya, Hatton & Cotto wer past their peaks. Only one was shot (De La Hoya, & while the draining played a significant part in his downfall, I won't make excuses for my man --- he was thoroughly whipped) & Hatton & Cotto, in different manners, were totally devastated.

I sometimes feel Pacquiao's ease of victory sullies these results, like the opponents are so unbelievable, they must've been shot or washed-up for Pacquiao not only to win, but to cruise by them. I think it has more to do with Pacquiao's brilliance than their states.

No argument on Arguello, for sure --- but Pryor is relatively-light beyond him. Had a great career, but it isn't a patch on Pacquiao's. Not even close.

Well one easy signifier is what they did before and after the bout in question. Before he fought Pacquiao Hatton struggled to reach the end against Juan Lazcano before pounding on a tailor-made Malignaggi and since losing to Pacquiao has done nothing but attack buffets. Before he fought Pacquiao DLH got his face busted up so badly by Steve Forbes you'd have thought he was fighting Jermain Taylor, he showed up drained below Pacquiao's own weight, and he retired afterward. David Diaz was shit who nearly lost to a guy in a non-title fight that Bob Arum set him up with, that fight was an absoulte farce. I give his win over Cotto the most credence of his recent victories because Cotto's reflexes and skills actually resembled this thing we call pro boxing and he's since moved up and beaten down a legit champion in Yuri Foreman, a guy who Pacquiao's team refused to fight based on his style.

Manny Pacquiao benefitted quite a bit from career-timing.

mrshot wrote:pryor beats them all,

....to the rehab clinic....

BoxBuzz wrote:

mrshot wrote:pryor beats them all,

....to the rehab clinic....

He looked like he was in good shape for the Legendary Nights shoot years back.

Diamond WEAPON wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I don't see it that way. People were absolutely laughing --- doubling over, I remember it clearly --- at the prospect of Pacquiao ever sharing a ring with Hatton as little as 12-18 months before it happened. A fight with De La Hoya? Totally, totally unthinkable --- a mismatch of epic proportions. Cotto was only on your radar as a Pacquiao fan if you were a card-carrying member of an asylum.

I certainly acknowledge De La Hoya, Hatton & Cotto wer past their peaks. Only one was shot (De La Hoya, & while the draining played a significant part in his downfall, I won't make excuses for my man --- he was thoroughly whipped) & Hatton & Cotto, in different manners, were totally devastated.

I sometimes feel Pacquiao's ease of victory sullies these results, like the opponents are so unbelievable, they must've been shot or washed-up for Pacquiao not only to win, but to cruise by them. I think it has more to do with Pacquiao's brilliance than their states.

No argument on Arguello, for sure --- but Pryor is relatively-light beyond him. Had a great career, but it isn't a patch on Pacquiao's. Not even close.

Well one easy signifier is what they did before and after the bout in question. Before he fought Pacquiao Hatton struggled to reach the end against Juan Lazcano before pounding on a tailor-made Malignaggi and since losing to Pacquiao has done nothing but attack buffets. Before he fought Pacquiao DLH got his face busted up so badly by Steve Forbes you'd have thought he was fighting Jermain Taylor, he showed up drained below Pacquiao's own weight, and he retired afterward. David Diaz was poop who nearly lost to a guy in a non-title fight that Bob Arum set him up with, that fight was an absoulte farce. I give his win over Cotto the most credence of his recent victories because Cotto's reflexes and skills actually resembled this thing we call pro boxing and he's since moved up and beaten down a legit champion in Yuri Foreman, a guy who Pacquiao's team refused to fight based on his style.

Manny Pacquiao benefitted quite a bit from career-timing.

I won't disagree, and Pryor's handlers wrote the book on that subject.

Diamond WEAPON wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I don't see it that way. People were absolutely laughing --- doubling over, I remember it clearly --- at the prospect of Pacquiao ever sharing a ring with Hatton as little as 12-18 months before it happened. A fight with De La Hoya? Totally, totally unthinkable --- a mismatch of epic proportions. Cotto was only on your radar as a Pacquiao fan if you were a card-carrying member of an asylum.

I certainly acknowledge De La Hoya, Hatton & Cotto wer past their peaks. Only one was shot (De La Hoya, & while the draining played a significant part in his downfall, I won't make excuses for my man --- he was thoroughly whipped) & Hatton & Cotto, in different manners, were totally devastated.

I sometimes feel Pacquiao's ease of victory sullies these results, like the opponents are so unbelievable, they must've been shot or washed-up for Pacquiao not only to win, but to cruise by them. I think it has more to do with Pacquiao's brilliance than their states.

No argument on Arguello, for sure --- but Pryor is relatively-light beyond him. Had a great career, but it isn't a patch on Pacquiao's. Not even close.

Well one easy signifier is what they did before and after the bout in question. Before he fought Pacquiao Hatton struggled to reach the end against Juan Lazcano before pounding on a tailor-made Malignaggi and since losing to Pacquiao has done nothing but attack buffets. Before he fought Pacquiao DLH got his face busted up so badly by Steve Forbes you'd have thought he was fighting Jermain Taylor, he showed up drained below Pacquiao's own weight, and he retired afterward. David Diaz was poop who nearly lost to a guy in a non-title fight that Bob Arum set him up with, that fight was an absoulte farce. I give his win over Cotto the most credence of his recent victories because Cotto's reflexes and skills actually resembled this thing we call pro boxing and he's since moved up and beaten down a legit champion in Yuri Foreman, a guy who Pacquiao's team refused to fight based on his style.

Manny Pacquiao benefitted quite a bit from career-timing.

I won't discount career-timing playing its part --- I just think, when I weigh that up against the likelihood of a former Bantamweight titleist beating guys like De La Hoya, & Hatton, & Cotto, & what that would mean --- that career-timing takes a backseat to the enormity of those accomplishments.

I read your post with interest. It's compelling to see the way two different people view the same thing. I felt Hatton looked shaky after Mayweather, but my verdict on his fight with Malignaggi was that it was (almost) the Hatton of old. I even picked Hatton (pensively, & call me a fool if you must) to beat Pacquiao. I thought, among other things, he would want it more than Pacquiao. I also saw De La Hoya-Forbes as a complete walk-in-the-park for De La Hoya, with no real trouble to note.

Regarding what they did afterward, De La Hoya's retirement is at least partly creditable toward Pacquiao. At least partly, & considering that came from this tiny dude, that's impressive. Hatton was damaged irrevocably by Mayweather, but Pacquiao deserves his due --- he effectively finished Hatton altogether. Again, when I think of this little guy coming up & doing that, & in his debut at the weight, fvck me.

Ultimately, "career-timing" doesn't weigh as heavily with me when assessing Pacquiao climbing division after division, & not only beating guys I (& many others) laughed at the thought of him sharing a ring with, but completely devastated them, at different weights, back-to-back, it totally defies belief.

What will your take be, out of interest WEAPON, if Pacquiao beats Margarito at Jr. Middle? What will your take be if he loses?