BoxRec

I`ve just been checking Pacman`s record.

Totally amazing. His last 10 fights at least have been against top level fighters, many of them being "Elite" fighters.

What get`s me though is that 5 years ago he is fighting at super feather weight and now having gone through the weights (and back down if we take the De La Hoya fight into account) he is fighting for the light middleweight title.

For a man of his height, there must be a limit. I know that Hearnes went from Welter to Light Heavy, but he was a tall man.

If Pacman steps up another weight level after this he will be fighting at middleweight, most likely for a title.

Middleweight for christ sakes, that`s people like Hagler and Carlos Monzon!!

How can you take a super featherweight and within five years having him fighting against champions built like Hagler? Something doesn`t add up.

He is an unbeliveable fighter, but beggars belief.

Pacquiao's only got one or two fights left, I feel. He's not going to be a legit light middleweight because there's a 150lbs limit against Margarito. He'll step back down if he wins to fight Mayweather at 147lbs, and if that fails to happen, he'll probably quit.

Thing is, I wouldn`t put it past him to beat someone like Sylvester for his Middlewight title even if he gave close to 10lbs away.

pacman always ducked mosley because of his big punch freddie even admitted they wouldn't fight shane at 147 and they wanted him weight drained at 140

Roberto Duran was a similar size to Pacman and he went all the wayto light heavy (though not against any kind of credible opponent).

I think in his first paid fight he was at 106 pounds or 7st 6lb,inbelievable

Performance Enhancing Drugs

amsb wrote:Performance Enhancing Drugs

Even in worst case scenario and this is true, I've yet to think of a single other case in any sport (bar bodybuilding) where drugs have allowed or been responsible for the individual having such dramatic fluctuations in weight.
I think it's perfectly plausible that Pacman has taken drugs, but if we're talking about his ascent through the weight classes I'd largely attribute that to the ageing process and to the bad habit of boiling down to the weight, which is particularly prevalent in Asia - surely no-one doubts that the Pacman who fought at the lighter weights and was stopped was dramatically weight-weakened?

If you look at Manny's fight night weights, he has gradually increased. The only reason the increases look so dramatic is because he used to drain a huge amount at the lower weights. Now (at welterweight) he barely drains at all. Manny used to put on around 17 pounds overnight down at super featherweight. Consider that.

I'm not saying that he's definitely clean (how would I know?), but if he is using, it's not in order to put on weight quickly, because he hasn't.

He also turned pro at a very very young age, Mayweather was boxing am at a similar weight at that age.

Picture this for a one night Pay per view

David Haye vs Wlad or Vitali Klitcho in Britain or Germany

Manny Pacquio vs Floyd Mayweather - Vegas

How much would you be willing to pay for that?

Gazmac81 wrote:Picture this for a one night Pay per view

David Haye vs Wlad or Vitali Klitcho in Britain or Germany

Manny Pacquio vs Floyd Mayweather - Vegas

How much would you be willing to pay for that?

£15, because it would be a special occasion. I'm not one for buying PPVs as I think it's exploitation (if the channel is already being subscribed for).

Asterix wrote:

Gazmac81 wrote:Picture this for a one night Pay per view

David Haye vs Wlad or Vitali Klitcho in Britain or Germany

Manny Pacquio vs Floyd Mayweather - Vegas

How much would you be willing to pay for that?

£15, because it would be a special occasion. I'm not one for buying PPVs as I think it's exploitation (if the channel is already being subscribed for).

Completely agree.

forcefraser wrote:I`ve just been checking Pacman`s record.

Totally amazing. His last 10 fights at least have been against top level fighters, many of them being "Elite" fighters.

What get`s me though is that 5 years ago he is fighting at super feather weight and now having gone through the weights (and back down if we take the De La Hoya fight into account) he is fighting for the light middleweight title.

For a man of his height, there must be a limit. I know that Hearnes went from Welter to Light Heavy, but he was a tall man.

If Pacman steps up another weight level after this he will be fighting at middleweight, most likely for a title.

Middleweight for christ sakes, that`s people like Hagler and Carlos Monzon!!

How can you take a super featherweight and within five years having him fighting against champions built like Hagler? Something doesn`t add up.

He is an unbeliveable fighter, but beggars belief.

hearns did box at the old crusierweight limit of 13st 8lbs in manchester

I agree that there is a huge possibility that he is or has taken PED, HGH or similar to make this increase.

I am sitting here dumbfounded that some people are dismissing his weight increases and the other 'iffy' things as:-
1. Not having to boil down in weight anymore - He may have needed to shift a stone for fights, possibly but he is still a small man with a small frame and was not exactly boiling down from 10 or 11 stone to make this current weight his 'real' weight.

2. Being young and body naturally maturing - it does NOT mature that much naturally, not for any of us and definitely not for a man who has been constantly training and working out all these years in an extreme fitness based sport. I weighed 10.5 stone at 18 and boxed and I now weigh with zero hassle 11 stone as a competing bodybuilder (oh and I once weighed 18 stone of fat fukker so am not some naturally scrawny bloke)

3. The fact he does not make an increase in weight between weigh in and the fight is being used as an example of him not taking gear when that is the biggest indicator to me that he IS taking something - if you are 100% right with diet, doses of gear and training then your body will be in total optimum condition and you just do not need to increase in weight and probably cant increase in a short time, you are not boiling weight off but using gear to get you UP to a weight. Massive increase in a body weight in a matter of hours is due to extreme cutting or weight loss that is artificial. Your body and muscle fibres are drained and the second you do eat all the tissues are fed and multiply and grow hence weight increase. Pac would be using them to increase AND eating freely on them so would not be able to beef up too much after a weigh in.
* Bodybuilders who use them in many cases bulk up then do a huge cut DOWN to a weight for competitions so they too are dry before a contest through a diet of eating little hence they do increase weight the second they eat. BUT Pac never has to cut as he is always trying to ADD weight and mass

One other thing to think about. How many boxers who go up in weight end up being the stronger and harder puncher when faced with someone naturally in the higher class, especially when you are talking about a former FLYWEIGHT facing a natural and strong WELTERWEIGHT???

Oh and did you know the last time he was tested before a fight was the first Morales fight?

When was his last bad performance that was lacking in real zeal, pop and bang?

Join the dots people.....

tobyh5 wrote:I agree that there is a huge possibility that he is or has taken PED, HGH or similar to make this increase.

I am sitting here dumbfounded that some people are dismissing his weight increases and the other 'iffy' things as:-
1. Not having to boil down in weight anymore - He may have needed to shift a stone for fights, possibly but he is still a small man with a small frame and was not exactly boiling down from 10 or 11 stone to make this current weight his 'real' weight.

2. Being young and body naturally maturing - it does NOT mature that much naturally, not for any of us and definitely not for a man who has been constantly training and working out all these years in an extreme fitness based sport. I weighed 10.5 stone at 18 and boxed and I now weigh with zero hassle 11 stone as a competing bodybuilder (oh and I once weighed 18 stone of fat fukker so am not some naturally scrawny bloke)

One other thing to think about. How many boxers who go up in weight end up being the stronger and harder puncher when faced with someone naturally in the higher class, especially when you are talking about a former FLYWEIGHT facing a natural and strong WELTERWEIGHT???

I'll address those comments that are clearly directed at me. Firstly, if you reread my post you'll see I clearly preface it by saying it's perfectly plausible he was on the gear, so when I talk about other potential factors it's within that context rather than seeking to banish the drugs rumours.
If you accept that Pacman was effectively starving himself in his early bouts and later abandoned that policy, this, coupled with physical maturation and the increases in weight that result (which are well documented), surely create a case where while unusual, is not so utterly implausible that it leaves you "dumbfounded". De Le Hoya started at Super Feather before ending up as high as Middleweight (though admittedly was probably never more than a light-middle). Dingaan Thobela started as a Super Featherweight but won a version of the Super Middleweight crown and if you want an even more extreme example, look at the way Guillermo Jones started at Welter and not only ended up at Cruiserweight, but won a version of the world title - that's going from boxing at 67 kilos up to 91 kilos!
The thing that makes me most suspicious, which you touch on as well, is that ALL his attributes seem to have 'accelerated' during his weight rise - speed, strength and stamina.

forcefraser wrote:


How can you take a super featherweight and within five years having him fighting against champions built like Hagler? Something doesn`t add up.

.

A combination of Amazing natural skill and desire, an excellent trainer and P.E.D.'s

There's only one cheat in Pacquaio v Margarito, and it ain't Manny.

bennie wrote:There's only one cheat in Pacquaio v Margarito, and it ain't Manny.

I think that is one proven cheat!

Nope, just one cheat. Pacquiao fills out gradually to lightweight, by which time he has the speed and talent to bulk up and beat a shot De La Hoya and the always-in-a-war Cotto for massive paydays. Where's the problem? Look at recent photos of Pac and Margarito. Pac is fat-faced, as you would expect, while Margarito is gaunt, as you would expect.

dve3333 wrote:

bennie wrote:There's only one cheat in Pacquaio v Margarito, and it ain't Manny.

I think that is one proven cheat!

Technically, Margarito got caught before landing a glove on Mosley... so he hasn't actually been proven to actually do something that DID enhance his performance, just was about too.

stujones wrote:

dve3333 wrote:

bennie wrote:There's only one cheat in Pacquaio v Margarito, and it ain't Manny.

I think that is one proven cheat!

Technically, Margarito got caught before landing a glove on Mosley... so he hasn't actually been proven to actually do something that DID enhance his performance, just was about too.

Proof of intent is usually sufficient though Stu.

Deserter wrote:

stujones wrote:

dve3333 wrote: I think that is one proven cheat!

Technically, Margarito got caught before landing a glove on Mosley... so he hasn't actually been proven to actually do something that DID enhance his performance, just was about too.

Proof of intent is usually sufficient though Stu.

To be honest, I want to see any boxer doing anything that is performance enhancing banned for life.... this isn't a 100 metre race - if its Steriods, HGH, or plaster of paris - you could end up literally killing someone. They ALL need to be made an example, as I said cheating in a 100 metre race is one thing, cheating in a fight could result in a permanent damage for the opponent.

So I want to never see Margarito in the ring again.... infact, I wanted to see him to some time for the crime (and thats what it is) he was about to commit.

Having said that, I still don't necessarily believe all his previous fights should be "scared" with the same lines - "oh he must have done it vs Cotto". I would like to believe that all coaches would be as estute as Mosley's one and seen him at it. That's what the checks are for.

stujones wrote:

Deserter wrote:

stujones wrote: Technically, Margarito got caught before landing a glove on Mosley... so he hasn't actually been proven to actually do something that DID enhance his performance, just was about too.

Proof of intent is usually sufficient though Stu.

To be honest, I want to see any boxer doing anything that is performance enhancing banned for life.... this isn't a 100 metre race - if its Steriods, HGH, or plaster of paris - you could end up literally killing someone. They ALL need to be made an example, as I said cheating in a 100 metre race is one thing, cheating in a fight could result in a permanent damage for the opponent.

So I want to never see Margarito in the ring again.... infact, I wanted to see him to some time for the crime (and thats what it is) he was about to commit. .

Couldn't agree more. Lifetime bans for anyone up to this kind of thing in combat sports.