BoxRec

How would a prime Vitali and Wladimir fair against the All Time Great Heavyweights, in their primes, in a 15 round setting?

Vs:

Evander Holyfield
Ezzard Charles
Floyd Patterson
Gene Tunney
George Foreman
Harry Wills
Ingemar Johannsen
Jack Dempsey
Jack Johnson
James Jeffries
Jerry Quarry
Jersey Joe Walcott
Joe Frazier
Joe Louis
Ken Norton
Larry Holmes
Lennox Lewis
Max Baer
Max Schmeling
Mike Tyson
Muhammad Ali
Riddick Bowe
Rocky Marciano
Sam Langford
Sonny Liston

Add any other boxers if I left off their names, if you wish to.

Long list I'll give my opinion a few fights at a time.

Wladimir vs

Holyfield: L KO 11
Ingemar Johansson: KO 2
Floyd Patterson: KO 3
Jack Johnson: KO 5
Gene Tunney: KO 5
Jerry Quarry: KO 4
Ali: L 15 ( UD)
Sonny Liston: KO 7
Joe Louis: KO 6 ( yeah that's right, styles make fights, Louis never fought a style like a Klitschko)

Rocky Marciano: TKO 10 cuts damage win for Wlad
George Foreman: L KO 4
Lennox Lewis: L KO 8
Mike Tyson: W 15 or possibly late KO
Max Baer: KO 4
Jersey Joe Walcott: KO 6
Larry Holmes: L 15
Riddick Bowe: L KO 6 ( Bowe's superior in-fighting would best Wlad)

Ken Norton: KO 4
Max Schmeling: KO 3
Joe Frazier: KO 8

I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but I think it's fair to say Wladimir or Vitali would at the very least be a very tall order ( no pun intended ) for any ATG. You gotta bring your A Game to compete with these guys.

gilgamesh wrote:Long list I'll give my opinion a few fights at a time.

Wladimir vs

Holyfield: L KO 11
Ingemar Johansson: KO 2
Floyd Patterson: KO 3
Jack Johnson: KO 5
Gene Tunney: KO 5
Jerry Quarry: KO 4
Ali: L 15 ( UD)
Sonny Liston: KO 7
Joe Louis: KO 6 ( yeah that's right, styles make fights, Louis never fought a style like a Klitschko)

Rocky Marciano: TKO 10 cuts damage win for Wlad
George Foreman: L KO 4
Lennox Lewis: L KO 8
Mike Tyson: W 15 or possibly late KO
Max Baer: KO 4
Jersey Joe Walcott: KO 6
Larry Holmes: L 15
Riddick Bowe: L KO 6 ( Bowe's superior in-fighting would best Wlad)

Ken Norton: KO 4
Max Schmeling: KO 3
Joe Frazier: KO 8

I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but I think it's fair to say Wladimir or Vitali would at the very least be a very tall order ( no pun intended ) for any ATG. You gotta bring your A Game to compete with these guys.

Right. Like Lennox Lewis did

gilgamesh wrote:Long list I'll give my opinion a few fights at a time.

Wladimir vs

Holyfield: L KO 11
Ingemar Johansson: KO 2
Floyd Patterson: KO 3
Jack Johnson: KO 5
Gene Tunney: KO 5
Jerry Quarry: KO 4
Ali: L 15 ( UD)
Sonny Liston: KO 7
Joe Louis: KO 6 ( yeah that's right, styles make fights, Louis never fought a style like a Klitschko)

Rocky Marciano: TKO 10 cuts damage win for Wlad
George Foreman: L KO 4
Lennox Lewis: L KO 8
Mike Tyson: W 15 or possibly late KO
Max Baer: KO 4
Jersey Joe Walcott: KO 6
Larry Holmes: L 15
Riddick Bowe: L KO 6 ( Bowe's superior in-fighting would best Wlad)

Ken Norton: KO 4
Max Schmeling: KO 3
Joe Frazier: KO 8

I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but I think it's fair to say Wladimir or Vitali would at the very least be a very tall order ( no pun intended ) for any ATG. You gotta bring your A Game to compete with these guys.

I never knew the perfect style antidote to blinding handspeed, crippling power, & perfect technique came in the form of a fella who's made a career of arm punches, & another without a chin...

Unfortunately there’s more love among boxing fans for fat 1980s heavies, wife-beaters and convicted rapists than there are for the two professional, well-spoken and articulate Klitschko brothers. The Klit boys carry themselves well and should be seen as a credit to the sport. Unfortunately this kind of behaviour isn’t really popular today. Lennox Lewis suffered similarly for being a gentleman…

Back to the thread… Any fighters resume would be enhanced by a win over either brother. I can’t see Wlad beating the great finishers. I can imagine him being dropped by all the big punchers and the Dempseys and Tysons would close the show. I imagine Wlad would enjoy fighting the more finesse boxers where he could take a few risks and know he could take what was coming back.

Vitali is an attrition puncher who would eventually get to anyone who could be stopped. I don’t believe he has the raw power to crack a cement chinned great.

Vitali v Liston would be an absolute classic but would be the kind of fight that takes a lot out of both men.

Unfortunately they both wood do well against any heavyweight in history...not because they are so overwhelming, but due to their size and their styles of fighting...straight right, clinch and grab! They are powerful, Wladimir is more fluid, but Wlad will not even entertain the idea of mixing-it-up with an opponent! But their style would make them a nightmare for anyone to fight. The heavyweights that I would rated highest against the two are heavyweights who threw lots of combo's and mixed his punches up well...Jack Dempsey, Young Mike Tyson, Ali, Joe Louis...etc Now I don't think either Klitschko is a high-ranking all-time heavyweight, but they would be effective against most!

I knew I'd get some naysayers, it's all speculation anyway of course. I just think The Klitschko's would give a lot if not most of history's great Heavyweights a lot more trouble than most people would give them credit for.

barry wrote:Unfortunately they both wood do well against any heavyweight in history...not because they are so overwhelming, but due to their size and their styles of fighting...straight right, clinch and grab! They are powerful, Wladimir is more fluid, but Wlad will not even entertain the idea of mixing-it-up with an opponent! But their style would make them a nightmare for anyone to fight. The heavyweights that I would rated highest against the two are heavyweights who threw lots of combo's and mixed his punches up well...Jack Dempsey, Young Mike Tyson, Ali, Joe Louis...etc Now I don't think either Klitschko is a high-ranking all-time heavyweight, but they would be effective against most!

That is an excellent post and I'm in complete agreement.

TarkanX wrote:How would a prime Vitali and Wladimir fair against the All Time Great Heavyweights, in their primes, in a 15 round setting?

Vs:

Evander Holyfield
Ezzard Charles
Floyd Patterson
Gene Tunney
George Foreman
Harry Wills
Ingemar Johannsen
Jack Dempsey
Jack Johnson
James Jeffries
Jerry Quarry
Jersey Joe Walcott
Joe Frazier
Joe Louis
Ken Norton
Larry Holmes
Lennox Lewis
Max Baer
Max Schmeling
Mike Tyson
Muhammad Ali
Riddick Bowe
Rocky Marciano
Sam Langford
Sonny Liston

Add any other boxers if I left off their names, if you wish to.

Wlad would give any fighter on here a real battle.
I see four fighters on here that have the style to beat Wlad. In order they are Tyson - Ali - Johnson (Kevins Grandad) - Lewis. At this point Wlad is good enough to beat any version of Lewis, as he has improved that much. At the same time Lewis was good enough to beat any version of Wlad.
Holyfield is one guy that would lose to Wlad every day of the week, as he just wouldn't have the tools for the job. I also beleive that if he landed that first head-butt on Wlad, that it would bring the nasty side out of him, and that would spell bad news for Holyfield.
Also Bowe would lose as I see his poor defence being his downfall in this match. And his skill on the inside won't work as he will get tied up on the inside.
Also I think Wlads chin is very underestimated! He took three flush hits on the chin vs Peter and seemed fine.
And he has never been sparked out in over 55 fights! Or for that matter any where near KOd.

barry wrote:Unfortunately they both wood do well against any heavyweight in history...not because they are so overwhelming, but due to their size and their styles of fighting...straight right, clinch and grab! They are powerful, Wladimir is more fluid, but Wlad will not even entertain the idea of mixing-it-up with an opponent! But their style would make them a nightmare for anyone to fight. The heavyweights that I would rated highest against the two are heavyweights who threw lots of combo's and mixed his punches up well...Jack Dempsey, Young Mike Tyson, Ali, Joe Louis...etc Now I don't think either Klitschko is a high-ranking all-time heavyweight, but they would be effective against most!

Ditto.

The Klits are only as good as their generation. Vit Klit luckily had a slightly better generation than his younger bro. The fact we compare them to the greats speak volumes. Nice men, but I can't help thinking a bit of controversy would do them the world of good PR wise in this weird world we live in.

Ezzard wrote:Unfortunately there’s more love among boxing fans for fat 1980s heavies, wife-beaters and convicted rapists than there are for the two professional, well-spoken and articulate Klitschko brothers. The Klit boys carry themselves well and should be seen as a credit to the sport. Unfortunately this kind of behaviour isn’t really popular today. Lennox Lewis suffered similarly for being a gentleman…

Back to the thread… Any fighters resume would be enhanced by a win over either brother. I can’t see Wlad beating the great finishers. I can imagine him being dropped by all the big punchers and the Dempseys and Tysons would close the show. I imagine Wlad would enjoy fighting the more finesse boxers where he could take a few risks and know he could take what was coming back.

Vitali is an attrition puncher who would eventually get to anyone who could be stopped. I don’t believe he has the raw power to crack a cement chinned great.

Vitali v Liston would be an absolute classic but would be the kind of fight that takes a lot out of both men.

While I completely understand the sentiment here, the fact is, people watch Boxing first & foremost for entertainment, & in terms of entertaining Boxing, these guys absolutely stink the joint out.

I'd favor them both over Patterson & Quarry. and Vitali over Ingo & Marciano. Underdogs in the rest of the fights to varying degrees.

I don't think anyone really believes stories of either one of them with girls. Wlad's relationship reeks of publicity on both sides. He seemed way more comfortable in the nude photo's with Vitali than he does in any pictures with the hot little girl.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't think anyone really believes stories of either one of them with girls. Wlad's relationship reeks of publicity on both sides. He seemed way more comfortable in the nude photo's with Vitali than he does in any pictures with the hot little girl.

Vitali's been married for a little while now though. From the way Wladimir talks about his relationship with Hayden though I get the feeling he likes to screw around, becuse he talked giddily about "the hunt" and liking girls who are "hard to get" in an interview I read about him.

Vitali is hard to rate in historical head to heads b/c of his perculier career and lack of comp. But he managed to find a way to lose to his two best opponents, and literally had a golden opportunity vs a past-it Lewis to rise to great status and he blew it.


Wlad loses to most on that list, I have little doubt. Wlad in most eras never goes beyond fringe contender status. Why people have their heads on straight vs guys who streaked vs better comp (Calzaghe, Darius M, Chavez) but suddenly Wlad has 10 wins in a row vs complete garbage and now he's an ATG? Why is the HW suddenly rated so high historically? I like how the first poster had him/them knocking out these genuinely great fighters before the 5th round, whereas in the real world they don't knock anybody out early, and take many rounds to take out guys who couldn't carry Max Schmeling's jockstrap.

gilgamesh wrote:Long list I'll give my opinion a few fights at a time.

Wladimir vs

Holyfield: L KO 11
Ingemar Johansson: KO 2
Floyd Patterson: KO 3
Jack Johnson: KO 5
Gene Tunney: KO 5
Jerry Quarry: KO 4
Ali: L 15 ( UD)
Sonny Liston: KO 7
Joe Louis: KO 6 ( yeah that's right, styles make fights, Louis never fought a style like a Klitschko)

Rocky Marciano: TKO 10 cuts damage win for Wlad
George Foreman: L KO 4
Lennox Lewis: L KO 8
Mike Tyson: W 15 or possibly late KO
Max Baer: KO 4
Jersey Joe Walcott: KO 6
Larry Holmes: L 15
Riddick Bowe: L KO 6 ( Bowe's superior in-fighting would best Wlad)

Ken Norton: KO 4
Max Schmeling: KO 3
Joe Frazier: KO 8

I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but I think it's fair to say Wladimir or Vitali would at the very least be a very tall order ( no pun intended ) for any ATG. You gotta bring your A Game to compete with these guys.

This is a wind-up, right?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'd favor them both over Patterson & Quarry. and Vitali over Ingo & Marciano. Underdogs in the rest of the fights to varying degrees.

So what you are saying is that either Klitschko would be an underdog to: Langford, Schmeling, Baer, Walcott, Wills, Tunney, Charles, Holyfield.
Could you please explain how these guys could beat either bros......

Any number of ways. Langford could blast them on the inside, Tunney could dart in and out and out box them.

You're listing great fighters who have actually beaten other great fighters. I hate to break it to you but Evander Holyfield isn't afraid of height. If you really have to ask how it could be possible, you're clearly putting too much importance on height.

Chris byrd, Ross Purrity, a fat and uninterested Lennox Lewis, Corrie Sanders & Lamon Brewster managed it. Max Schmeling couldn't?

Vitali is a tougher proposition because of his chin, but he has zero in the way of variety with his offense and fighters with quicker feet and a high ring IQ could find his pattern. Wlad against a focused Max baer? How could he beat him? I doubt Wlad would last a round.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Unfortunately there’s more love among boxing fans for fat 1980s heavies, wife-beaters and convicted rapists than there are for the two professional, well-spoken and articulate Klitschko brothers. The Klit boys carry themselves well and should be seen as a credit to the sport. Unfortunately this kind of behaviour isn’t really popular today. Lennox Lewis suffered similarly for being a gentleman…

Back to the thread… Any fighters resume would be enhanced by a win over either brother. I can’t see Wlad beating the great finishers. I can imagine him being dropped by all the big punchers and the Dempseys and Tysons would close the show. I imagine Wlad would enjoy fighting the more finesse boxers where he could take a few risks and know he could take what was coming back.

Vitali is an attrition puncher who would eventually get to anyone who could be stopped. I don’t believe he has the raw power to crack a cement chinned great.

Vitali v Liston would be an absolute classic but would be the kind of fight that takes a lot out of both men.

While I completely understand the sentiment here, the fact is, people watch Boxing first & foremost for entertainment, & in terms of entertaining Boxing, these guys absolutely stink the joint out.

[/quote]

The problem with what your saying (entertainment wise) is that I lived through the 1980s heavyweight scene and unlike some I don’t get all misty-eyed over it. Greg Page versus Tony Tubbs… It’s on film, check it out. Tim Witherspoon a great talent who ate his career away. Cross-channel swimmer David Bey. Pinklon Thomas and Trevor Berbick… every time one of them looked like emerging they lost to an equally lackadaisical contender.

Taking their career performances as a whole they’d have ruled the 1980s if we take Holmes and Tyson out of the equation. Sure Wlad would have lost the odd fight to a Weaver or a Bruno or a Bonecrusher but through sheer discipline and application they’d have had enough to be the stand out HWs.

They’d have beaten a post-Witherspoon Holmes, who was on the slide. And I’d bet on Vitali to beat post-Spinks Tyson.

gilgamesh wrote:Long list I'll give my opinion a few fights at a time.

Wladimir vs


Joe Louis: KO 6 ( yeah that's right, styles make fights, Louis never fought a style like a Klitschko)

Thanks for the laugh, I almost sh*t myself.

theory wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Long list I'll give my opinion a few fights at a time.

Wladimir vs


Joe Louis: KO 6 ( yeah that's right, styles make fights, Louis never fought a style like a Klitschko)

Thanks for the laugh, I almost sh*t myself.

LOL

Again, I don't get the double standard. Wlad beats a bunch of 2nd and 3rd raters, just like a Darius Michalczewski, but unlike Darius (who would never crack any objective viewer's top 25 light HW lb for lb), Wlad does the same and now can beat tons of legit greats who came before him. I suppose the argument would be that Darius had Roy in his shadow, but hell, Wlad was being pampered in Germany during the latter half of the Lewis reign and when he finally was on the threshold of a match he pissed it away by getting blown away by a 37 year old former fringe contender!

I was there in the 80s too and while it was full of inconsistent guys ,they were by and large far superior to the crop of no-talents now. Wlad in the past 5 years hasn't fought anyone on the level of a prime Trevor Berbick let alone a Tucker or a Witherspoon. Put Wlad in the 80s and he can beat most of them on any given night but he loses several as well if he, to his detriment, meets them on a night when they actually trained and aren't strung out on coke. Forget about it vs real great fighters. People are impressed b/c he stopped a Sam Peter after 10 awful rounds?? I can't even imagine how ugly the destruction would be if you'd thrown tubby Sam in there with a Dempsey or Louis or Liston . . they would've been massacres ended within 4 rounds.

Give the K brothers credit for consistency, bravo to them. But hard to give too much credit for consistency over bums, especially when baby bro has already been embarassed by 3 huge underdogs and Brittali finds ways to lose to his best opponents. Always thought it was interesting how Vitali never injured his shoulder vs a Ross Purrity or a Sosnowski, or got his face cut vs a Larry Donald, but suddenly vs his two best opponents he's falling victim to injuries.

"The problem with what your saying (entertainment wise) is that I lived through the 1980s heavyweight scene and unlike some I don’t get all misty-eyed over it. Greg Page versus Tony Tubbs… It’s on film, check it out. Tim Witherspoon a great talent who ate his career away. Cross-channel swimmer David Bey. Pinklon Thomas and Trevor Berbick… every time one of them looked like emerging they lost to an equally lackadaisical contender.

Taking their career performances as a whole they’d have ruled the 1980s if we take Holmes and Tyson out of the equation. Sure Wlad would have lost the odd fight to a Weaver or a Bruno or a Bonecrusher but through sheer discipline and application they’d have had enough to be the stand out HWs.

They’d have beaten a post-Witherspoon Holmes, who was on the slide. And I’d bet on Vitali to beat post-Spinks Tyson." - Ezz

...So if a snail beats a slug in a race, it's no longer slow?

Max Baer Sent a guy like Wlad to the canvas about a dozen times, whistlin' while he worked. Very tall guy who liked to work behind a jab and had a suspect chin.

What were you saying about styles/fights again?

Now Joe Louis, well I'm just not so sure you've done your homework on ol' Joe.