Page 1 of 1

Rank Lennox's wins

Posted: 30 Sep 2010, 03:01
by oliverfennell
In order, what do you think are Lennox Lewis' best wins/most impressive performances?

Tyson was the biggest name he beat, and his performance in doing so was punch-perfect, but obviously Tyson was past his best.

Holyfield is therefore probably a better win in terms of Holyfield's career stage and being ranked as the world's best, but Lewis' win wasn't as emphatic as it could/should have been.

Then there's the next tier of guys he beat very impressively, but who were not as highly regarded as Tyson and Holyfield, although they were very highly regarded at the time - for example Ruddock, Grant, Tua, Golota, Rahman, Morrison. Detracting from those wins is the fact they didn't do much in their careers after Lewis got done with them.

Then there are the guys of a similar level who Lewis struggled with, or laboured against, such as Mercer, Bruno, Briggs, McCall 2, Akinwande, Tucker. Good names for the resume, but flawed performances in beating them.

Probably above all except Tyson and Holyfield is Klitschko, and the debate about that fight continues to this day.

So, how do you rank Lewis' wins? Let's say top 10. Using a formula of quality of opponent AND quality of victory, I'd say:

1) Tyson - I'd agree that Tyson was inferior to Holyfield as an opponent, but Lewis was just flawless that night. Tyson WAS still dangerous, WAS still top 3 ranked, and had a lot of backers. With hindsight, yes, Tyson was flattered, but Lewis' performance was perfect.

2) Holyfield - yes, Lewis could have done more, but at the end of the day he beat the division leader and unified the titles.

3) Klitschko - we'll never know what would have happened if the fight continued, but for my money it was legit victory, since the injuries came from punches. Lewis was relatively unfit, getting old, and fought without imagination, but he gets credit for repelling the biggest name of the "next generation" at the time, and the win looks better in light of Klitchko's dominant form since.

4) Ruddock - the win that announced Lewis on the world stage couldn't have been more emphatic. Did Tyson "soften up" Ruddock first? Who knows, but blasting out the guy who'd been 19 very tough rounds with a near-peak Iron Mike was, and remains, a huge result.

5) Golota - Golota never quite made it to the top and would come to be known for his erraticism, but Golota came into the fight with a huge reputation at the time. You could draw parallels between Golota-Bowe and Ruddock-Tyson in that Lewis effortlessly destroyed a man who'd made his name in two tumultuous affairs with one of the division's elite.

6) Rahman - I might be ranking Rahman a bit highly here since he was ultimately a one-hit wonder, but credit to Lewis for immediately rematching a guy who'd sparked him, and beating him in the most convincing fashion.

7) Tua - I'd rate Tua below Mercer as a fighter and in terms of accomplishments, but I rate Lewis' win over Tua above that over Mercer because of the method and margin of victory. Not the most exciting fight, but the perfect strategy carried out to a tee.

8) Mercer - again, Mercer was better than Tua (and Rahman), but Lewis struggled against him. So much so that some would argue Mercer deserved the nod. Credit for that, of course, goes to Mercer, as Lewis was fit and on form. Had Lewis won this more decisively, it might have been his fifth-best win.

9) Bruno - at the time, not a hot performance, against a fairly lowly-considered opponent, but looks better now, with Bruno having gone on to win a world title and opinion about his worth being revised in recent times. Perhaps Bruno should be credited for a strong performance more than Lewis criticised for a poor one.

10) Grant - I loved this one at the time, as Grant was being hailed as the "next great heavyweight". He did look a formidable challenger and Lewis just annihilated him. However Grant's true worth has been proven by his failure to do anything of note since. Perhaps Lewis irrevocably damaged him, but I do think this is a result which has diminished with time (the opposite of Bruno).

Any other thoughts? Change in order and/or different names? Are Tucker, Morrison, Mason, Grant, Mavrovc, Briggs, McCall better wins?

Re: Rank Lennox's wins

Posted: 30 Sep 2010, 10:13
by Jaywheel
8 ) strikes again...

Re: Rank Lennox's wins

Posted: 30 Sep 2010, 10:19
by Goodnight, Irene
I don't think Holyfield was in dramatically better shape as a fighter circa-1999 than was Tyson in 2002. Definitively in better shape, yes, but not by that much. The fact that Holyfield is still fighting today serves to somewhat cloud the fact that he was absolutely a washed-up, spent force by the time Lewis got him. I give Lewis credit for the first fight --- no matter how faded Holyfield was, no one had ever beaten him so conprehensively. Lewis took a lot of the steam off that by squeaking by him in the lacklustre rematch, though. In his very next fight, Holyfield would prove just how much age had wearied him by beginning his dreaded trilogy with John Ruiz.

Against Tyson, Lewis dominated, but I wouldn't call taking eight rounds to dispense with that Tyson anything approaching, "perfection." it was one-way traffic, but why wasn't it over & done with in three-to-five rounds? Anyway, there is no stressing how shot Tyson was. The win is not especially impressive, in my book.

Whatever issues he had going into the fight, Golota was still looked at as one of the better Heavies in the world. Lewis' one-round demolition job put paid to that, & ranks among his better wins.

Some of his other big victories really aren't as impressive in hindsight as they were at the time --- Grant was a hype-job (I called it from the start), & Tua is so over-rated, it's ridiculous. Still, Lewis completely dismantled both of them, so you can't fault him for that. I would rate his victory over Mercer (though I had it wider in Lewis' favour than some) as one of his least impressive performances, IMO. No way should that fight by on any highlights package for the man.

We still have Rahman II & Klitschko. Rahman is, was & always will be absolutely terrible. It sounds harsh, given his loss to McCall was years & years earlier, but I've never truly forgiven Lewis for losing to Rahman. Not completely. The guy is just stone-cold horrendous. Lewis was clinical in the return, emphasising the huge gulf between them when he was switched on.

The arrogance & complacency reared its ugly head again, though, against Klitschko. To Lewis' credit, he soaked up some real punishment, fought back in poor condition, & got the job done. To his discredit, Klitschko is a massively over-rated fighter --- an arm-punching, straight-up Eastern Euro archetypal robot, with the footwork of a rhinoceros. Even so, he gave Lewis way too much grief.

Re: Rank Lennox's wins

Posted: 30 Sep 2010, 10:19
by Goodnight, Irene
Jaywheel wrote:8 ) strikes again...

:lol:

Gets 'em every time. Why people don't just learn their lesson & type, "8." I'll never know.

Re: Rank Lennox's wins

Posted: 02 Oct 2010, 12:46
by Ambling Alp
oliverfennell wrote:In order, what do you think are Lennox Lewis' best wins/most impressive performances?

Tyson was the biggest name he beat, and his performance in doing so was punch-perfect, but obviously Tyson was past his best.

Holyfield is therefore probably a better win in terms of Holyfield's career stage and being ranked as the world's best, but Lewis' win wasn't as emphatic as it could/should have been.

Then there's the next tier of guys he beat very impressively, but who were not as highly regarded as Tyson and Holyfield, although they were very highly regarded at the time - for example Ruddock, Grant, Tua, Golota, Rahman, Morrison. Detracting from those wins is the fact they didn't do much in their careers after Lewis got done with them.

Then there are the guys of a similar level who Lewis struggled with, or laboured against, such as Mercer, Bruno, Briggs, McCall 2, Akinwande, Tucker. Good names for the resume, but flawed performances in beating them.

Probably above all except Tyson and Holyfield is Klitschko, and the debate about that fight continues to this day.

So, how do you rank Lewis' wins? Let's say top 10. Using a formula of quality of opponent AND quality of victory, I'd say:

1) Tyson - I'd agree that Tyson was inferior to Holyfield as an opponent, but Lewis was just flawless that night. Tyson WAS still dangerous, WAS still top 3 ranked, and had a lot of backers. With hindsight, yes, Tyson was flattered, but Lewis' performance was perfect.

2) Holyfield - yes, Lewis could have done more, but at the end of the day he beat the division leader and unified the titles.

3) Klitschko - we'll never know what would have happened if the fight continued, but for my money it was legit victory, since the injuries came from punches. Lewis was relatively unfit, getting old, and fought without imagination, but he gets credit for repelling the biggest name of the "next generation" at the time, and the win looks better in light of Klitchko's dominant form since.

4) Ruddock - the win that announced Lewis on the world stage couldn't have been more emphatic. Did Tyson "soften up" Ruddock first? Who knows, but blasting out the guy who'd been 19 very tough rounds with a near-peak Iron Mike was, and remains, a huge result.

5) Golota - Golota never quite made it to the top and would come to be known for his erraticism, but Golota came into the fight with a huge reputation at the time. You could draw parallels between Golota-Bowe and Ruddock-Tyson in that Lewis effortlessly destroyed a man who'd made his name in two tumultuous affairs with one of the division's elite.

6) Rahman - I might be ranking Rahman a bit highly here since he was ultimately a one-hit wonder, but credit to Lewis for immediately rematching a guy who'd sparked him, and beating him in the most convincing fashion.

7) Tua - I'd rate Tua below Mercer as a fighter and in terms of accomplishments, but I rate Lewis' win over Tua above that over Mercer because of the method and margin of victory. Not the most exciting fight, but the perfect strategy carried out to a tee.

8) Mercer - again, Mercer was better than Tua (and Rahman), but Lewis struggled against him. So much so that some would argue Mercer deserved the nod. Credit for that, of course, goes to Mercer, as Lewis was fit and on form. Had Lewis won this more decisively, it might have been his fifth-best win.

9) Bruno - at the time, not a hot performance, against a fairly lowly-considered opponent, but looks better now, with Bruno having gone on to win a world title and opinion about his worth being revised in recent times. Perhaps Bruno should be credited for a strong performance more than Lewis criticised for a poor one.

10) Grant - I loved this one at the time, as Grant was being hailed as the "next great heavyweight". He did look a formidable challenger and Lewis just annihilated him. However Grant's true worth has been proven by his failure to do anything of note since. Perhaps Lewis irrevocably damaged him, but I do think this is a result which has diminished with time (the opposite of Bruno).

Any other thoughts? Change in order and/or different names? Are Tucker, Morrison, Mason, Grant, Mavrovc, Briggs, McCall better wins?

I do think his performance against Tyson is vastly underrated. Yes Tyson was not the best opponent, but that's not Lewis' fault.
When he an ancient Holyfield, he weas not nearly as impressive. That should not be #2.

I would take out #3 fight vs Klitschko. He looked horrible in that fight. He was rusty, and overweight. He didn't look like he had trained at all. He was slow and didn't look sharp at all. He was lucky that was not fighting a really good fighter or he would have lost badly.

Hard to rate the Golota fight since Golota seemed to be there just for the paycheck.

He had other performances where he looked good. The Morrison fight should be in the Top 10. He looked impressive against Phil Jackson and Lionel Butler. Granted neither were that good, but still Lewis seemed sharp.
Except for a couple of moments where Briggs scored big, Lewis looked pretty good in that fight.