BoxRec

Tyson versus Bowe, who wins?

I go back and forwards on this one.

Will do it justice when I have a bit more time.

If you're talking about both men at their absolute best Bowe would give him the beating of his life. You really couldn't design a worse opponent for Tyson. Great jab, tremendous infighter, sturdy chin and huge. It would be likd Tyson/Douglas, but more competitive early and even more violent late.

Prime-for-prime, Bowe would make a fight of it, but ultimately when you blend his positively appalling defensive deficiences with Tyson's combination of crippling power & blinding handspeed, there'll only be one winner, & that's Iron Mike. I don't class Bowe's chin as all that sturdy, truth be told. Certainly, not sturdy enough to overcome his pourous D.

Big Daddy has the tools, most certainly, but in the end, he is just way too hittable.

I'd agree with you if tyson was coming forward. Bowe would back him up and Mike is like a fish out of water then. He would totally abuse Mike on the inside. Not that Tyson couldn't stop him, he could stop most anyone not named Evander.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:If you're talking about both men at their absolute best Bowe would give him the beating of his life. You really couldn't design a worse opponent for Tyson. Great jab, tremendous infighter, sturdy chin and huge. It would be likd Tyson/Douglas, but more competitive early and even more violent late.

Right on the money.

I'll concede the fact if Bowe gets Tyson moving backward, it's Goodnight, Irene. Bowe would completely dominate Tyson inside, & he had an excellent, spearing jab. Not among Bowe's greater assets were his handspeed & accuracy --- two important areas against someone so much faster than yourself, & Tyson, to make no mistake, was quicker & more agile than Bowe in every conceivable capacity of the sport. I see Tyson's speed & superior punch-delivery overcoming Bowe's height & range advantages & landing first --- & if Tyson lands first with conviction, he will shake Bowe right down to his bootlaces.

It's a dicey fight for Tyson, because he has nowhere near Bowe's size, heart, or recuperative ability. Bowe could possibly come back from an early Tyson onslaught, maybe, & fight back to win. If Bowe is on top hard & early, on the other hand, I don't think Tyson will turn the tide.

Still, I keep thinking about that overhand right Holyfield threw in the closing seconds of the tenth round of his first fight with Bowe. Keep thinking of the single left hook, thrown without follow-up by a sickly Holyfield which not only floored Bowe in their third meet, but had him flopping about & covering up as though he'd been struck by Joe Louis. Golota knocked his socks off twice --- credit to Bowe for surviving (particularly the rematch), but every shot through two fights seemed to wobble him. Bowe's defense in 1996 was no worse than it had been in 1992.

I've got Tyson in about four fast-paced, pulsating rounds.

Holyfield endured more than Tyson could dream of before landing any of those shots. Fair point about Bowe's defense, but it wasn't much worse than Mike's. I know people like to romanticize about his head movement. But that was against stationary targets.

I'll concede Mike a punchers chance, but Bowe had everything that troubled Tyson in spades. More often than not, Tyson gets his face caved in after some promising moments early.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Holyfield endured more than Tyson could dream of before landing any of those shots. Fair point about Bowe's defense, but it wasn't much worse than Mike's. I know people like to romanticize about his head movement. But that was against stationary targets.

I'll concede Mike a punchers chance, but Bowe had everything that troubled Tyson in spades. More often than not, Tyson gets his face caved in after some promising moments early.

You worry at all about Bowe's supposed reticence regarding Tyson? Is it a factor? "Whenever I saw Mike Tyson, I crossed the street..."

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Holyfield endured more than Tyson could dream of before landing any of those shots. Fair point about Bowe's defense, but it wasn't much worse than Mike's. I know people like to romanticize about his head movement. But that was against stationary targets.

I'll concede Mike a punchers chance, but Bowe had everything that troubled Tyson in spades. More often than not, Tyson gets his face caved in after some promising moments early.

You worry at all about Bowe's supposed reticence regarding Tyson? Is it a factor? "Whenever I saw Mike Tyson, I crossed the street..."

If it was sincere that would always be a concern. I always took that as him paying respect to a neighborhood legend more than anything else. Then again, I thought he would eat up Lewis at the time and he refused to fight him.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:If you're talking about both men at their absolute best Bowe would give him the beating of his life. You really couldn't design a worse opponent for Tyson. Great jab, tremendous infighter, sturdy chin and huge. It would be likd Tyson/Douglas, but more competitive early and even more violent late.

I lean to this take on this fight.

Any thoughts on just what event sapped the "essence" from Bowe? He had one of the most remarkable downslides of any fighter ever...or so it seemed to me. He just seemed to decompose. With the fighter I always pick on (I'll leave un named)....it was explainable, with Bowe the slide has a stealth quality. And Unlike the fighter I pick on so often, I believe Bowe actually achieved true excellence before his fall. Bowe at his peak is one of the greatest fighters ever IMHO, but his dramatic fall keeps him from appearing on any "greatest" lists. IMHO.

At their equal best...I would put my money on Riddick. But on a typical day within their shared careers, I'd have to go with Tyson. I'm not mincing words here. Tyson's good days seemed to span a far greater time period. Maybe it's just my faulty memory.

The wars with holyfield were more than Bowe's body could take. I really don't know why, it's a violent sport and he won that trilogy on the cards and lost it physically.

I agree that Mike's peak lasted longer, but he never met a fighter like Bowe during it.

Good point, perhaps Bowe just wasn't made to take the heat.


Holy is the mirror image on that count, took a lickin' kept on tickin. Hard to believe he beat Valuev that late in his career. And I do believe for as bad a fight as that was, He won that championship fight that night.

I disagree Holyfield was the prime culprit. Bowe's extremist lifestyle was to blame. Ask any nutritionist what weight swings of that magnitude, over a period of years for a high-octane athlete, will do to your reflexes & response-times.

So you think he went the way of Roy Jones? regarding the weight swings that is?

BoxBuzz wrote:So you think he went the way of Roy Jones? regarding the weight swings that is?

I'd say it was a combo of the weight swings and the beatings he took. He took A LOT of heat from his opponents, and considering how rapidly he'd lose weight for fights after walking around so much heavier so frequently I'm sure it didn't help his physiological processes any.

Anyway, I favor Bowe in this matchup. I actually think Tyson would come out and rock his world but Bowe would manage to overcome some knockdowns and scary moments and punish Mike into a mid-rounds stoppage.

Tyson by stoppage. I echo what Goodnight said about Riddick's defensive deficiencies. And his chin was not that great, Newman had him avoiding elite punchers his whole career, but even with that Evander him him on the edge of a KO loss in the rubber match and Hide turned his legs to jelly at a couple of points. Plus of course Golota beat him around the ring.

Bowe also wasn't near the boxer Douglas was at his best. Bowe gets too much credit for the first Evander victory, which he won b/c Holyfield chose to slug with Bowe early on the inside thinking he would quit like he had in earlier sparring sessions. And no-one who blocks punchers with their face is beating a prime Tyson, although this would've been a very fun fight while it lasted.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I disagree Holyfield was the prime culprit. Bowe's extremist lifestyle was to blame. Ask any nutritionist what weight swings of that magnitude, over a period of years for a high-octane athlete, will do to your reflexes & response-times.

Those weight swings aren't uncommon in fighters. Your boy Duran did it for decades. I'd be willing to wager that eating 500 power shots from Holyfield has him punch drunk more than 800 buckets of KFC.

dempseyfire wrote:Tyson by stoppage. I echo what Goodnight said about Riddick's defensive deficiencies. And his chin was not that great, Newman had him avoiding elite punchers his whole career, but even with that Evander him him on the edge of a KO loss in the rubber match and Hide turned his legs to jelly at a couple of points. Plus of course Golota beat him around the ring.

Bowe also wasn't near the boxer Douglas was at his best. Bowe gets too much credit for the first Evander victory, which he won b/c Holyfield chose to slug with Bowe early on the inside thinking he would quit like he had in earlier sparring sessions. And no-one who blocks punchers with their face is beating a prime Tyson, although this would've been a very fun fight while it lasted.

Tyson would have no alternative to do the same and Tyson was inferior on the inside to Bowe in a big way.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I disagree Holyfield was the prime culprit. Bowe's extremist lifestyle was to blame. Ask any nutritionist what weight swings of that magnitude, over a period of years for a high-octane athlete, will do to your reflexes & response-times.

Those weight swings aren't uncommon in fighters. Your boy Duran did it for decades. I'd be willing to wager that eating 500 power shots from Holyfield has him punch drunk more than 800 buckets of KFC.

According to Newman & Futch, there were fluctuations in the vicinity of 50 & 60-plus pounds on a fairly regular basis. That is shocking stuff, & it plays a real part in an athlete disintegrating as they yo-yo around. It's caught up with many fighters. My suspicion is it played no small role in the demise of Ricky Hatton, for one recent example.

I don't think Bowe has the chin or speed to favour him winning this one, in any event.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I disagree Holyfield was the prime culprit. Bowe's extremist lifestyle was to blame. Ask any nutritionist what weight swings of that magnitude, over a period of years for a high-octane athlete, will do to your reflexes & response-times.

Those weight swings aren't uncommon in fighters. Your boy Duran did it for decades. I'd be willing to wager that eating 500 power shots from Holyfield has him punch drunk more than 800 buckets of KFC.

According to Newman & Futch, there were fluctuations in the vicinity of 50 & 60-plus pounds on a fairly regular basis. That is shocking stuff, & it plays a real part in an athlete disintegrating as they yo-yo around. It's caught up with many fighters. My suspicion is it played no small role in the demise of Ricky Hatton, for one recent example.

I don't think Bowe has the chin or speed to favour him winning this one, in any event.

Well I don't think it's just the fluctations themselves, but the fact that they come within extremely short periods of time and the fighters who engge in such yo-yoing (Hatton, Morales, Vargas, Bowe) have practically no defense and thus took serious beatings even in fights that they won brilliantly. The fact that they were shedding 60-70 lbs. within the span of a few months on top of draining water and such for Vargas, Morales, and Hatton in order to make weight, coupled with the punishment they took in such a weakened (for them since they were obviously natural fatties) state doesn't lend itself to longevity.

Right...& I think the primary culprit in Bowe's stupendous decline was his lifestyle, rather than Holyfield's fists.

I've just never heard of someone being punch drunk because of food. His love of grub certainly didn't help any, but by all accounts I have read the man didn't drink or do drugs. That puts him ahead of many legends of the ring as far as taking care of his body.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Tyson by stoppage. I echo what Goodnight said about Riddick's defensive deficiencies. And his chin was not that great, Newman had him avoiding elite punchers his whole career, but even with that Evander him him on the edge of a KO loss in the rubber match and Hide turned his legs to jelly at a couple of points. Plus of course Golota beat him around the ring.

Bowe also wasn't near the boxer Douglas was at his best. Bowe gets too much credit for the first Evander victory, which he won b/c Holyfield chose to slug with Bowe early on the inside thinking he would quit like he had in earlier sparring sessions. And no-one who blocks punchers with their face is beating a prime Tyson, although this would've been a very fun fight while it lasted.

Tyson would have no alternative to do the same and Tyson was inferior on the inside to Bowe in a big way.

What examples are you referring to Bowe being a master on the inside? Jesse Ferguson aside.