BoxRec

I say no. Beating Holyfield 2 of 3 just isn't enough I'm afraid.

:( NO he under acheived apart from Holyfield who else in the big league did he fight :??

No, because he ducked Lennox Lewis.

I would say no, just not a strong enough body of work. That being said, I'd vote for him over guys like Gatti, Corrales & Tszyu that I'm pretty sure are going in on their first ballot.

I agree going 2 out of 3 with Holyfield are his only fights against legit World Class competition. Hall of Famers must have more than one Elite fighter who they beat on their record.

If the man purchases a ticket, I see no reason to refuse him entry. Same as any of the rest of us.

BoxBuzz wrote:If the man purchases a ticket, I see no reason to refuse him entry. Same as any of the rest of us.

very good BoxBuzz. You're so sharp you'll cut yourself.

Back a tha net!

The thing with Bowe is that often people seem to judge him on how could he have been or who he didn't fight. Maybe he didn't reach his full potential. Obviously had he fought and beat Lewis that would have helped his standing.
However,a fighter should be rated on what he actually did.

Bowe did beat a prime Evander Holyfield. That is a big deal. Only a handful of heavyweights have a bigger win. People should not just blow that off and say that's all that he did. Who is the best fighter that you beat has to be a major factor in rating someone.

Look at other heavyweights "body of work". How impressive are the "resumes" of Willard,Braddock,Godfrey,Burns, Johannson to name a few?
They didn't beat anyone remotely close to a prime Holyfield. Right there Bowe has a huge advantage over them.
Then compare their big wins to Bowes other wins. Bowe beat Biggs,Tubbs,Seldon before he ever fought for a title. He beat Coezter, Hide, and Donald later. None of these guys were great, but they all had some ability.

Take out Willard, Braddocks, Godfrey, Burns, and Johannson biggest win of there career. Their list of victims don't include anyone special either. Some decent fighters, but no .

You also have to look at consistency. Bowe did not have many "off night's: The majority of the heavyweight in the Hall of Fame lost more than once to less than great fighters. Had they all fought Holyfield 3 times, and the others guys that Bowe fought, they would have had a lot more than one loss. The only time he ever loss was a close decison (that could have gone the other way) to a prime Evander Holyfield.

Bowe could have had a better career. However, he still belongs in the Hall of Fame when he is eligible. This is a no-brainer.

I have no smart aleck comebacks for that, other than I agree. One official loss in a long career. And he did end his trilogy with Holyfield with an exclamation mark. And at the same time, a story of squandered talent IMHO. There was so much more to what could have been. I do however suspect he was a bit fragile in terms of his reaction to being hit. I think he devolved from taking shots to the head in a way that made me suspect he was a bit more vulnerable than many of his peers to absorbing head shots.

BoxBuzz wrote:I have no smart aleck comebacks for that, other than I agree. One official loss in a long career. And he did end his trilogy with Holyfield with an exclamation mark. And at the same time, a story of squandered talent IMHO. There was so much more to what could have been. I do however suspect he was a bit fragile in terms of his reaction to being hit. I think he devolved from taking shots to the head in a way that made me suspect he was a bit more vulnerable than many of his peers to absorbing head shots.

Not exactly a long career, though. Seven years & about forty fights (excluding the farcical comebacks of the decade past).

Riddick Bowe disappointed me immensely by denying boxing fans the biggest fight of 1993 or maybe even the 90s by running away from Lennox Lewis but continually insulting him, but even taking that into account, he does belong in the HOF.

To date, he is the only man to have ever KOd a 'living' Holyfield as well as being the first man to beat him.

That's quite an achievement & proves that he certainly had the skill & the heart that were necessary to be a great fighter.

It's just a shame that he didn't believe in himself in respect of fighting Lewis, or that he couldn't keep out of Burger King for more than 2 nights running.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:I have no smart aleck comebacks for that, other than I agree. One official loss in a long career. And he did end his trilogy with Holyfield with an exclamation mark. And at the same time, a story of squandered talent IMHO. There was so much more to what could have been. I do however suspect he was a bit fragile in terms of his reaction to being hit. I think he devolved from taking shots to the head in a way that made me suspect he was a bit more vulnerable than many of his peers to absorbing head shots.

Not exactly a long career, though. Seven years & about forty fights (excluding the farcical comebacks of the decade past).

farcical...is subjective....the dates he fought are not, so the comeback is part of his record. Though I suppose if you were the almighty you would simply erase the facts. So the rest of us would need not be worried with such trifles. You would obviously be a merciful deity.

NO, and a conclusive one at that. Riddick Bowe just did not do enough for to be in ANYBODY's Hall Of fame.

BoxBuzz wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:I have no smart aleck comebacks for that, other than I agree. One official loss in a long career. And he did end his trilogy with Holyfield with an exclamation mark. And at the same time, a story of squandered talent IMHO. There was so much more to what could have been. I do however suspect he was a bit fragile in terms of his reaction to being hit. I think he devolved from taking shots to the head in a way that made me suspect he was a bit more vulnerable than many of his peers to absorbing head shots.

Not exactly a long career, though. Seven years & about forty fights (excluding the farcical comebacks of the decade past).

farcical...is subjective....the dates he fought are not, so the comeback is part of his record. Though I suppose if you were the almighty you would simply erase the facts. So the rest of us would need not be worried with such trifles. You would obviously be a merciful deity.

Right...guess that means if Joe Bloggs has, say, ten fights over two years, retires, then comes back ten years later, he's enjoyed a twelve-year career?

Great math, Buzz.

GI...your way smarter than me...so you know and I don't, so I'm always good with whatever you say, and I don't want to be victim of locusts, or scourges. But I just figure a career begins with your first fight, and ends with your last. I'm sure it's far more complex and nuanced than that, but that's all I have time for today.

I don't think the length of his career was too short. He had at least one fight in 11 different years and fought pretty frequently. Even if you don't count his comeback he fought in 8 different years. He had 44 fights. Marciano's career was not much longer.

He had more fights than Corbett, Jeffries,Willard, and Johannson who are all in. In fact he had twice as many fight as Jeffries did. Corbett, Willard, and Johannson all had more losses than him and never beat anyone as good as a prime Holyfield. He belongs when he is eligible.

Jack Sharkey and Ken Norton had more fights than Bowe, but Bowe won more fights.

Obviously numbers can be deceiving in boxing. However, there is enough evidence (on film and otherwise) that shows how good Bowe was.

People need to forget about him not fighting Lewis, and not having as good of a career as he could have. Focus on what he did. That is what counts. It was easily more than many of the heavyweights that have been elected.

In my opinion, Bowe deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Olympic Silver Medalist only because he ran into another Hall-of-Famer in the gold medal match, undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World who took 2 of 3 from a peak Evander Holyfield because Bowe was flat out a better fighter and, unsatisfactory results in the Golata fights notwithstanding, he only lost 1 fight in his whole career. Plus, the level he reached at his --admitedlly brief -- peak was very very high.

Another thing to consider, and I write this in all seriousness: There is a very real possibility that Bowe was the only top heavyweight in his day who was competing without the aid of the performance-enhancing drugs that his contemporaries (incl. Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, and Andrew Golata) found irresistable.

Ambling Alp wrote:The thing with Bowe is that often people seem to judge him on how could he have been or who he didn't fight. Maybe he didn't reach his full potential. Obviously had he fought and beat Lewis that would have helped his standing.
However,a fighter should be rated on what he actually did.

Bowe did beat a prime Evander Holyfield. That is a big deal. Only a handful of heavyweights have a bigger win. People should not just blow that off and say that's all that he did. Who is the best fighter that you beat has to be a major factor in rating someone.

Look at other heavyweights "body of work". How impressive are the "resumes" of Willard,Braddock,Godfrey,Burns, Johannson to name a few?
They didn't beat anyone remotely close to a prime Holyfield. Right there Bowe has a huge advantage over them.
Then compare their big wins to Bowes other wins. Bowe beat Biggs,Tubbs,Seldon before he ever fought for a title. He beat Coezter, Hide, and Donald later. None of these guys were great, but they all had some ability.

Take out Willard, Braddocks, Godfrey, Burns, and Johannson biggest win of there career. Their list of victims don't include anyone special either. Some decent fighters, but no .

You also have to look at consistency. Bowe did not have many "off night's: The majority of the heavyweight in the Hall of Fame lost more than once to less than great fighters. Had they all fought Holyfield 3 times, and the others guys that Bowe fought, they would have had a lot more than one loss. The only time he ever loss was a close decison (that could have gone the other way) to a prime Evander Holyfield.

Bowe could have had a better career. However, he still belongs in the Hall of Fame when he is eligible. This is a no-brainer.

Alp, as always, another lengthy, detailed attempt to persuade. However...

Ingo beat Floyd and Machen, so that's 2 world class HWs, so I'd say his body of work was at least as good as Bowes. Tubbs was Riddick's second world class HW, but while he got the official nod, I don't think he won that fight.

Of course, I do agree that many of those you mention probably don't belong in the HOF, but that doesn't mean they should keep putting in other mediocre examples like Bowe.

Mr E wrote:In my opinion, Bowe deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Olympic Silver Medalist only because he ran into another Hall-of-Famer in the gold medal match, undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World who took 2 of 3 from a peak Evander Holyfield because Bowe was flat out a better fighter and, unsatisfactory results in the Golata fights notwithstanding, he only lost 1 fight in his whole career. Plus, the level he reached at his --admitedlly brief -- peak was very very high.

Another thing to consider, and I write this in all seriousness: There is a very real possibility that Bowe was the only top heavyweight in his day who was competing without the aid of the performance-enhancing drugs that his contemporaries (incl. Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, and Andrew Golata) found irresistable.

I didn't know that Lewis tested positive? And how do we know that "Big Daddy" didn't partake?

I'd also question that Holyfield was peak fighting with hepatitis or that Bowe was a better fighter. He was definitely a big problem for Evander, but if Evander was in peak condition Riddick gets stopped in the 6th. Credit to him for getting up and he didn't force Holyfield to fight sick. But you can't label that trilogy so cut and dry.

Harry jeffra beat Sixto Escobar 4 or 5 times and Lou Salica among others. He also was a two division titilist. If you really look at a lot of guys who aren't yet in, it's tough to put Bowe in over them for edging a trilogy with an all time great.

The Great John L wrote:I didn't know that Lewis tested positive?

I don't know whether he ever did or not. Assuming he did not, I maintain it is nevertheless a titanic leap of faith to believe that a guy whose body developed the way Lewis's did was clean throughout his career. I guess reasonable minds can differ on that point but, to me, it seems obvious.

And how do we know that "Big Daddy" didn't partake?

We don't, and I didn't present the issue as a confirmed fact. But if you look at the guy's body over the course of his career, I think you have to concede that he never looked the part. Just never had that kind of physique. Again, however, I guess reasonable minds can differ.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'd also question that Holyfield was peak fighting with hepatitis or that Bowe was a better fighter. He was definitely a big problem for Evander, but if Evander was in peak condition Riddick gets stopped in the 6th. Credit to him for getting up and he didn't force Holyfield to fight sick. But you can't label that trilogy so cut and dry.

Harry jeffra beat Sixto Escobar 4 or 5 times and Lou Salica among others. He also was a two division titilist. If you really look at a lot of guys who aren't yet in, it's tough to put Bowe in over them for edging a trilogy with an all time great.

Holy cats, Harry Jeffra should be in the Hall of Fame too! (Until reading your post, I didn't realize he wasn't.)

As for Bowe v. Holyfield, I suppose everyone has his opinion. My opinion is that there is no question that Bowe was better.

He was one punch away from losing the third fight. I couldn't call anything that close to being a different result clear.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He was one punch away from losing the third fight. I couldn't call anything that close to being a different result clear.

Haha, well, "one punch away" is something people frequently say when their guy didn't throw the punch. In this particular situation, I respectfully submit that I disagree.