BoxRec

Historically how do these fighters rate? In 50 years time, how will they rate?

1.
2.
3.
4.

As fighters there is no doubt Holyfield ranks first. If you're talking about Heavyweights than Lewis has a claim to the top spot.

For me, if it's accomplishments

Holyfield
Lewis
Tyson
Bowe

If it's talent

Holyfield
Bowe
Lewis
Tyson

sg1985 wrote:I'll make a similar list as Saad:

Accomplishment:

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield
3. Tyson
4. Bowe

Talent:

1. Holyfield
2. Lewis
3. Bowe
4. Tyson

Holyfield more talented than Bowe & Tyson!?

I'd say, excepting maybe Lewis, he was the least gifted --- which is not to say he wasn't a talented fighter (they all are at this level).

All and all:

1) Holyfield

2) Lewis

3) Tyson

4) Bowe

sg1985 wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I'd say, excepting maybe Lewis, he was the least gifted --- which is not to say he wasn't a talented fighter (they all are at this level).

What did Tyson have that Holyfield didn't? Is Lewis at the bottom of your talent list then?

Not so much a case of what Tyson had Holyfield didn't (though, if you're looking for an example in this regard, a true Heavyweight punch would be one), so much as I felt he was definitely more naturally-endowed with gifts than Holyfield. I give him the edge in footspeed, handspeed, reflexes --- Holyfield had a damn long list of skills, & he was a whole lot more versatile, but I don't feel he was quite the natural Tyson was.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

sg1985 wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I'd say, excepting maybe Lewis, he was the least gifted --- which is not to say he wasn't a talented fighter (they all are at this level).

What did Tyson have that Holyfield didn't? Is Lewis at the bottom of your talent list then?

Not so much a case of what Tyson had Holyfield didn't (though, if you're looking for an example in this regard, a true Heavyweight punch would be one), so much as I felt he was definitely more naturally-endowed with gifts than Holyfield. I give him the edge in footspeed, handspeed, reflexes --- Holyfield had a damn long list of skills, & he was a whole lot more versatile, but I don't feel he was quite the natural Tyson was.

Holyfield didn't hit as hard as Tyson but to say he didn't have a Heavyweight punch is preposterous.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

sg1985 wrote: What did Tyson have that Holyfield didn't? Is Lewis at the bottom of your talent list then?

Not so much a case of what Tyson had Holyfield didn't (though, if you're looking for an example in this regard, a true Heavyweight punch would be one), so much as I felt he was definitely more naturally-endowed with gifts than Holyfield. I give him the edge in footspeed, handspeed, reflexes --- Holyfield had a damn long list of skills, & he was a whole lot more versatile, but I don't feel he was quite the natural Tyson was.

Holyfield didn't hit as hard as Tyson but to say he didn't have a Heavyweight punch is preposterous.

I'm talking about a knockout punch, to be clear. I could've worded it better. Holyfield's punch, to a decent extent, deserted him above Cruiser (as did his endurance).

Nonsense

Tyson
Lewis
Holyfield
Bowe

Overall (incl. cruiser for Holyfield):
Holyfield
Lewis
Tyson
Bowe

Only at hw:
Lewis
Tyson
Holyfield
Bowe

The top three are close imo.

1. lewis
2. holyfield
3. tyson
4. bowe

keithmoonhangover wrote:Historically how do these fighters rate? In 50 years time, how will they rate?

1.
2.
3.
4.

P4P:-

1) Holyfield
2) Lewis
3) Tyson
4) Bowe

As Heavyweights against each other:-

1) Lewis
2) Bowe
3) Holyfield
4) Tyson

sg1985 wrote:It really is sad what Bowe wasted. He was class.

Bowe didn't believe in himself, hence why he ran away from Lewis, whilst continuing to insult him however. :(

Syntax Error wrote:

sg1985 wrote:It really is sad what Bowe wasted. He was class.

Bowe didn't believe in himself, hence why he ran away from Lewis, whilst continuing to insult him however. :(

Lewis was a better fighter and would have kicked Bowe's arse if Bowe had ever had the guts to step in the ring with him.

Accomplishments

1. Holyfield
2. Lewis
3. Tyson
4. Bowe

Talent

1. Tyson
2. Bowe
3. Holyfield
4. Lewis

Syntax Error wrote:

sg1985 wrote:It really is sad what Bowe wasted. He was class.

Bowe didn't believe in himself, hence why he ran away from Lewis, whilst continuing to insult him however. :(

More Britisher liberties in the absence of facts...

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nonsense

I'll tell you something --- & it's well-documented I am Big George's biggest fan around here --- it got flat-out embarrassing for Holyfield when he couldn't floor Foreman. For that many shots, in that succession, Tyson would've levelled Foreman for the count, had he been the one landing them.

Holyfield was an average puncher once he left Cruiser. I'm not being critical of his power at Heavyweight --- no one is sanely going to declare it below-average --- but I don't wanna hear how it was anything special, either. Frankly, it wasn't, even though you do encounter people from time-to-time who act as if Holyfield could really bang.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nonsense

I'll tell you something --- & it's well-documented I am Big George's biggest fan around here --- it got flat-out embarrassing for Holyfield when he couldn't floor Foreman. For that many shots, in that succession, Tyson would've levelled Foreman for the count, had he been the one landing them.

Holyfield was an average puncher once he left Cruiser. I'm not being critical of his power at Heavyweight --- no one is sanely going to declare it below-average --- but I don't wanna hear how it was anything special, either. Frankly, it wasn't, even though you do encounter people from time-to-time who act as if Holyfield could really bang.

Holyfield not being able to floor was "embarrassing". Irene, you are talking complete poo.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nonsense

I'll tell you something --- & it's well-documented I am Big George's biggest fan around here --- it got flat-out embarrassing for Holyfield when he couldn't floor Foreman. For that many shots, in that succession, Tyson would've levelled Foreman for the count, had he been the one landing them.

Holyfield was an average puncher once he left Cruiser. I'm not being critical of his power at Heavyweight --- no one is sanely going to declare it below-average --- but I don't wanna hear how it was anything special, either. Frankly, it wasn't, even though you do encounter people from time-to-time who act as if Holyfield could really bang.

Nobody in their right mind would compare his power to Tyson's. I'm not sure why that is your example. So hitting as hard as Tyson and flooring Foreman is what it takes to be an above average puncher?

I don't think you're being critical, just exaggerating immensely to make a point. Or maybe you're just wrong, it happens to everyone. Whatever the reason, he was clearly an above average puncher.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nonsense

I'll tell you something --- & it's well-documented I am Big George's biggest fan around here --- it got flat-out embarrassing for Holyfield when he couldn't floor Foreman. For that many shots, in that succession, Tyson would've levelled Foreman for the count, had he been the one landing them.

Holyfield was an average puncher once he left Cruiser. I'm not being critical of his power at Heavyweight --- no one is sanely going to declare it below-average --- but I don't wanna hear how it was anything special, either. Frankly, it wasn't, even though you do encounter people from time-to-time who act as if Holyfield could really bang.

Nobody in their right mind would compare his power to Tyson's. I'm not sure why that is your example. So hitting as hard as Tyson and flooring Foreman is what it takes to be an above average puncher?

I don't think you're being critical, just exaggerating immensely to make a point. Or maybe you're just wrong, it happens to everyone. Whatever the reason, he was clearly an above average puncher.

If everyone's wrong sometimes. When were you wrong Saad?

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

sg1985 wrote:It really is sad what Bowe wasted. He was class.

Bowe didn't believe in himself, hence why he ran away from Lewis, whilst continuing to insult him however. :(

More Britisher liberties in the absence of facts...

Well, what facts are missing?

Please tell me Mr Australian!

Grimm wrote:Accomplishments

1. Holyfield
2. Lewis
3. Tyson
4. Bowe

Talent

1. Tyson
2. Bowe
3. Holyfield
4. Lewis

Agree with this take (obviously depends how you define talent ).

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nonsense

I'll tell you something --- & it's well-documented I am Big George's biggest fan around here --- it got flat-out embarrassing for Holyfield when he couldn't floor Foreman. For that many shots, in that succession, Tyson would've levelled Foreman for the count, had he been the one landing them.

Holyfield was an average puncher once he left Cruiser. I'm not being critical of his power at Heavyweight --- no one is sanely going to declare it below-average --- but I don't wanna hear how it was anything special, either. Frankly, it wasn't, even though you do encounter people from time-to-time who act as if Holyfield could really bang.

Nobody in their right mind would compare his power to Tyson's. I'm not sure why that is your example. So hitting as hard as Tyson and flooring Foreman is what it takes to be an above average puncher?

I don't think you're being critical, just exaggerating immensely to make a point. Or maybe you're just wrong, it happens to everyone. Whatever the reason, he was clearly an above average puncher.

It's a core disagreeance. I do not see him as, "clearly" an above-average puncher at all. Not at Heavy.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I would rate him a harder puncher than Vitali. I doubt that opinion would garner much support.