BoxRec

I love Sanchez as much as anyone but an untimely death tends to immortalize people, regardless of their trade...One could argue, Danny Lopez' defense made fighters look good. Wilfredo Gomez was coming up in weight, Ruben Castillo really wasnt thaT good, who tha hell was Patrick Ford and Azumah Nelson only had 13 fights...These are all legitamate arguments against Sal. Sanchez...But he was like no other fighter I've seen and he beat these guys, which is all you have to do.....your thoughts???

No he was not. One of the most well rounded fighters in history, no weaknesses. That's not to say i haven't seen him rated too high on all time lists. But his skills were as legit as they get.

I agree but he had severe troubles with Pat Cowdell...where do you rank Pat???

Hell no!!
Was only 23 when he died, already had 9 or 10 featherweight defenses which was pretty incredible.

He had even more trouble with Patrick Ford, you can't come up with a fighter that didn't struggle with a guy or two beneath their level. It happens all the time.

Cowdell was a solid fighter, nothing special.

Only someone who has not seen his fights would think he was overrated. Anyone that knows anything about boxing could see the talent he possessed. He died at the extremely young age of 23 when he had yet to reach his peak, but yet he had already beat 9 top 10 ranked fighters at his weight plus winning the Featherweight Championship. He was the first to defeat and derail the wrecking machine that was Wilfredo Gomez. Gomez had defended his title 17 times all by KO. Sure Gomez was moving up but it was only 1 weight class and he would go on later to win a title at that weight class.

As for mentioning Pat Cowdell. Are you kidding? Cowdell was bleeding from both eyes and got dropped in the last round. Everyone struggles with someone at some point, but Sanchez won that fight convincingly. The judges scored that fight:

Dickie Cole 146-140 Sanchez
James Jen-Kin 148-137 Sanchez
Bob McMillon 144-145 Cowdell

What Bob McMillon was watching is a mystery. Now way Cowdell won that fight. It should have been a UD across the board.

Watch the fight for yourself and tell me you think Cowdell won that fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXTotOBL ... D&index=31

i agree. Sanchez was my favorite. Just playing devils advocate. Thank you

Baby Face, not to knock your comment on "Gomez would go on to win a title at 126" but it was against Juan LaPorte which alot of people thought Juan won

And I have Sanchez's fights directly from Mexico...I have watched them

Jaybird wrote:And I have Sanchez's fights directly from Mexico...I have watched them

Ford nearly beat him legitimately.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Jaybird wrote:And I have Sanchez's fights directly from Mexico...I have watched them

Ford nearly beat him legitimately.

I agree which is why i posted this...nobody denies Sal's skills

I was just surprised you mentioned Cowdell instead of ford. My initial point remains the same.

Based on Fords fight with Pedroza I selected Cowdell as the inferior fighter

Jaybird wrote:Based on Fords fight with Pedroza I selected Cowdell as the inferior fighter

Pardon? That's confusing, Pedroza mutilated Ford. Whomever was the better fighter of the two, Ford actually almost beat Sal. Cowdell took a pretty convincing beating.

I'll be the odd man out then & answer the topic with a yes --- however, allow me to qualify that by saying this is based on just way too many lists I see where he falls square into place at #3 (usually behind the great rivals, Pep & Saddler) all-time at Feather --- that is simply too high for my tastes, & I see it all the time.

In saying he is a bit over-rated, I'm purely criticising many assessments of his greatness --- & greatness is just the word I would use for this brilliant, brilliant fighter.

I think it's inevitable that when a career - or a life - ends before its trajectory has peaked, people will speculate as to where that peak would have been, and perhaps this blurs into their assesment of what is observed. Its very rare to discuss Sanchez and fighters like him without it including a 'what if...?'. His talent was not and is not overrated, but I think people blur in these unknowns somewhat, almost as if they can easily visualise him beating the 5 or 10 people below him at the time of his death, and so these turn into might-have-wons into would-have-wons.

MatthewS wrote:I think it's inevitable that when a career - or a life - ends before its trajectory has peaked, people will speculate as to where that peak would have been, and perhaps this blurs into their assesment of what is observed. Its very rare to discuss Sanchez and fighters like him without it including a 'what if...?'. His talent was not and is not overrated, but I think people blur in these unknowns somewhat, almost as if they can easily visualise him beating the 5 or 10 people below him at the time of his death, and so these turn into might-have-wons into would-have-wons.

Well-said.

I can't disagree with any of that, like i said I think he gets over placed on lists because his accomplishments fall short. But he did enough in his short time that I'm not outraged by it, I usually just disagree and move on.

He achieved more than many of the so-called superstars from the 90s.

He had great skill, great intelligence, the chin, stamina and heart of a true great. He beat enough great fighters and world class contenders for us to be able to speculate.

Had he lived there would have been…

At 126
Pedroza
Nelson II
McGuigan
Lockridge

At 130
Arguello
Chavez
Mitchell

Pedroza would have the best chance because of his movement.

You can put Sanchez up there with the very best of the division.

On another note, Pat Cowdell was an excellent, world class level contender.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I can't disagree with any of that, like i said I think he gets over placed on lists because his accomplishments fall short. But he did enough in his short time that I'm not outraged by it, I usually just disagree and move on.

Saad, I'd argue that Sanchez at Feather has as good a record as say Mike Spinks does at 175.

Mike has the unification fight against Qawi but I'm not sure Qawi was as good an opponent as Gomez or the brillaint, if a little callow, Azumah.

Throw in the marvellous Lopez (twice), Laporte and Castillo and I think he gets an invitation to the top table.

He died young but, importantly, he crammed so much into his career. It's not like the blind speculation that goes on with say Tyson.

verballistic wrote:

Jaybird wrote:I love Sanchez as much as anyone but an untimely death tends to immortalize people, regardless of their trade...One could argue, Danny Lopez' defense made fighters look good. Wilfredo Gomez was coming up in weight, Ruben Castillo really wasnt thaT good, who tha hell was Patrick Ford and Azumah Nelson only had 13 fights...These are all legitamate arguments against Sal. Sanchez...But he was like no other fighter I've seen and he beat these guys, which is all you have to do.....your thoughts???

no way was he overrated...most of my boxing buddies are mexican/mex-american & very few disagree when i say salvador would have been greater than chavez, who happened to come along at the perfect time...he was about 20-0 when salvador died tragically & was able to fill the void, but many believe sanchez was a more complete fighter than JCC & could well have been an even bigger national hero.

It would've been great to see the eventual bout between them.

Ezzard wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I can't disagree with any of that, like i said I think he gets over placed on lists because his accomplishments fall short. But he did enough in his short time that I'm not outraged by it, I usually just disagree and move on.

Saad, I'd argue that Sanchez at Feather has as good a record as say Mike Spinks does at 175.

Mike has the unification fight against Qawi but I'm not sure Qawi was as good an opponent as Gomez or the brillaint, if a little callow, Azumah.

Throw in the marvellous Lopez (twice), Laporte and Castillo and I think he gets an invitation to the top table.

He died young but, importantly, he crammed so much into his career. It's not like the blind speculation that goes on with say Tyson.

I'd have Spinks ahead of him as a whole. I see Sal top 20 all time on some peoples "lists", that's too ambitious for me. I always fancied Pedroza in a unification but he was a great fighter at a young age. I think he did enough to be labeled the greatest Mexican, certainly ahead of JCC for me.

verballistic wrote:

Jaybird wrote:I love Sanchez as much as anyone but an untimely death tends to immortalize people, regardless of their trade...One could argue, Danny Lopez' defense made fighters look good. Wilfredo Gomez was coming up in weight, Ruben Castillo really wasnt thaT good, who tha hell was Patrick Ford and Azumah Nelson only had 13 fights...These are all legitamate arguments against Sal. Sanchez...But he was like no other fighter I've seen and he beat these guys, which is all you have to do.....your thoughts???

no way was he overrated...most of my boxing buddies are mexican/mex-american & very few disagree when i say salvador would have been greater than chavez, who happened to come along at the perfect time...he was about 20-0 when salvador died tragically & was able to fill the void, but many believe sanchez was a more complete fighter than JCC & could well have been an even bigger national hero.

He was greater than Chavez.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ezzard wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I can't disagree with any of that, like i said I think he gets over placed on lists because his accomplishments fall short. But he did enough in his short time that I'm not outraged by it, I usually just disagree and move on.

Saad, I'd argue that Sanchez at Feather has as good a record as say Mike Spinks does at 175.

Mike has the unification fight against Qawi but I'm not sure Qawi was as good an opponent as Gomez or the brillaint, if a little callow, Azumah.

Throw in the marvellous Lopez (twice), Laporte and Castillo and I think he gets an invitation to the top table.

He died young but, importantly, he crammed so much into his career. It's not like the blind speculation that goes on with say Tyson.

I'd have Spinks ahead of him as a whole. I see Sal top 20 all time on some peoples "lists", that's too ambitious for me. I always fancied Pedroza in a unification but he was a great fighter at a young age. I think he did enough to be labeled the greatest Mexican, certainly ahead of JCC for me.

Fair enough, but I think it's very close.

Top 20 P4P is too high when you consider some of the records and achievements of guys out there.

Back to Spinks... For me he has Qawi, EMM and Johnson...with Vonzell and Yaqui too.

Sanchez has a comparable list of victims.

Pedroza may well have beaten him but I think Salvador would fare better against the top 20 at 126 than Eusebio would have. I think Pedroza was a slippery fish to catch and this may have won him the decision.

Ezzard wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ezzard wrote: Saad, I'd argue that Sanchez at Feather has as good a record as say Mike Spinks does at 175.

Mike has the unification fight against Qawi but I'm not sure Qawi was as good an opponent as Gomez or the brillaint, if a little callow, Azumah.

Throw in the marvellous Lopez (twice), Laporte and Castillo and I think he gets an invitation to the top table.

He died young but, importantly, he crammed so much into his career. It's not like the blind speculation that goes on with say Tyson.

I'd have Spinks ahead of him as a whole. I see Sal top 20 all time on some peoples "lists", that's too ambitious for me. I always fancied Pedroza in a unification but he was a great fighter at a young age. I think he did enough to be labeled the greatest Mexican, certainly ahead of JCC for me.

Fair enough, but I think it's very close.

Top 20 P4P is too high when you consider some of the records and achievements of guys out there.

Back to Spinks... For me he has Qawi, EMM and Johnson...with Vonzell and Yaqui too.

Sanchez has a comparable list of victims.

Pedroza may well have beaten him but I think Salvador would fare better against the top 20 at 126 than Eusebio would have. I think Pedroza was a slippery fish to catch and this may have won him the decision.

Eusebio was more of a rough inside fighter to me, I think he would have bothered Sanchez there. I agree that Sal was greater overall.

I didn't disagree with your take on Sanchez/Spinks in a single division. I just said that I would rate Spinks higher overall, that includes Holmes. At the time of the fights, I'd say Qawi is the greatest win between them but Sal has more top depth. Larry puts Mike over the top imo.