BoxRec

First off, I thought Carl boxed beautifully against Abraham on Saturday night. Gone were the wild lunges, the posturing and the akward looking left hooks. What we saw was his brilliant jab and 2-3 punch combos that didnt let Abraham into the game at all.

Credit must go to Froch, but also to his coach Robert McCraken. The Kessler loss could have been the best thing to happen to him, otherwise he may have gone into this one with his usual 'warrior' mentality.

I could be way off the mark here but I wonder if McCraken's time up at GB Boxing may have altered his approach to coaching Carl. In Robert's 'day job' he is working with the finest amateurs in Britain, and coaching them to acheive success in the computer scoring unpaid code. His advice during the Abraham fight resembled that of an amateur coach. "1,2 move" "jab, parry" etc (or something to that effect).

Carl was noticably lighter on his feet. It was perhaps an obvious game plan to beat AA, but they are not always easy to execute but Froch executed it perfectly. He resisted the urge to get drawn in and really put on a top notch boxing display. McCracken drilled home some good points in the corner - at one stage I'm sure he said "if he catches you he will knock you out!".

Anyways, as much as McCracken has brought to the country's top amateurs it may appear the amateur set up (coaches, EIS staff etc)has given him some depth and expanded his admittidly great knowledge.

I'd have to agree dbf, and Carl also commented on the value of his training with the amateurs in Sheffield.

Nah. I just reckon the loss to Kessler cleared the wax from Froch's ears. Amazing how people listen when they've had a sense check.

Robert McCracken has always been regarded as one of the best trainers in the country and has often being mentioned alongside the likes of Joe Gallagher who trains John Murray and the Ingles as some of the best trainers in the UK when people discuss who are the best trainers in the UK, and the fact the he is running the GB Amateur programme shows the high regard he is considered within the UK.

IRLangmaid25 wrote:Robert McCracken has always been regarded as one of the best trainers in the country and has often being mentioned alongside the likes of Joe Gallagher who trains John Murray and the Ingles as some of the best trainers in the UK when people discuss who are the best trainers in the UK, and the fact the he is running the GB Amateur programme shows the high regard he is considered within the UK.

I agree he has always been in held in high regard, but in my OP I was trying to ask if we think he has learnt a lot from the Amateur game. Let's remember Robert was not an amateur coach when he joined the GB set up and despite being a respected pro coach, the two sports are very different.

I think he's probably learnt a lot from the likes of Dave Alloway etc and vice versa.

McCracken is obviously a very good coach.
But Froch is still the boss in his corner. He knew to fight Abraham any different to what he did, would have seen him ko'd.
It was a very basic gameplan - we all knew what he had to do. This time Froch also knew.

jizzle wrote:Nah. I just reckon the loss to Kessler cleared the wax from Froch's ears. Amazing how people listen when they've had a sense check.

In the build-up to the Abraham fight Froch admitted that he's learned from the Kessler loss. He seemed proud of his amateur pedigree and wanted people to see that he can box.

It's odd that he convinced himself that he needed to be a brawler after the Pascal fight, because he only pulled away from the Canadian when he boxed consistently behind his jab in the second half.

Froch has proved to himself that he doesn't have to engage in tear-ups all the time to be an entertainer. This realisation should mean he now has a longer, more successful tail-end to his career.

I would love to see a rematch with Kessler.

Nobby

McCracken would have learned a lot about Abraham from being in Eastman's corner.

nobby_nobbins wrote:McCracken would have learned a lot about Abraham from being in Eastman's corner.

Good point!

Great point, and a point that's been overlooked throughout the Super 6.

When it was first announced I saw AA as the weak link actually. I actually thought Taylor would beat him. He was so slow that even Howard Eastman, who looked like he was punching through butter himself at times, beat him (in some people's eyes).

He was methodical but didn't over impress me as a Middle. Then came his Super Middleweight debut against the overated Miranda, and bang - looked a different fighter. I still thought... well Miranda isn't the hardest fighter to find, and it seemed to be the same old same old when he returned back to Middle. Then though I started to attribute his lack of workrate and speed to weight making issues - cause he looked so sharp against Taylor.

Looks like that was a one off, unless he is a terrible fighter away from home. Is he really any different to the fighter Howard Eastman made look very pedestrian.

nobby_nobbins wrote: It's odd that he convinced himself that he needed to be a brawler after the Pascal fight, because he only pulled away from the Canadian when he boxed consistently behind his jab in the second half.


Nobby

Froch had to fight the way he did since the Pascal fight because the guys he has been facing had the better skills than himself...except Abraham.

Taylor looked as superb as Froch did against Abraham in the 1st 11 rnds ... lets see if Froch is really a new and improved fighter after the Johnson or Ward fights...
I happen to think we will see the same Froch of old.

tonyevs wrote:

nobby_nobbins wrote: It's odd that he convinced himself that he needed to be a brawler after the Pascal fight, because he only pulled away from the Canadian when he boxed consistently behind his jab in the second half.


Nobby

Froch had to fight the way he did since the Pascal fight because the guys he has been facing had the better skills than himself...except Abraham.

Taylor looked as superb as Froch did against Abraham in the 1st 11 rnds ... lets see if Froch is really a new and improved fighter after the Johnson or Ward fights...
I happen to think we will see the same Froch of old.

Taylor did look good against abraham until the point deduction which subsequently made him chaneg his game plan and had to go for broke and he got caught.

Frocha and his team showed me they can adapt, which is one of the best skills to have in boxing.
froch brawls when eh is up against better boxers than himself and boxes when he can outbox his opponent.

CREDIT TO HIM AND HIS TEAM FOR REALISING WHEN TO DO EITHER. and successfully implementing it.

Re-up Gang wrote:

tonyevs wrote:

nobby_nobbins wrote: It's odd that he convinced himself that he needed to be a brawler after the Pascal fight, because he only pulled away from the Canadian when he boxed consistently behind his jab in the second half.


Nobby

Froch had to fight the way he did since the Pascal fight because the guys he has been facing had the better skills than himself...except Abraham.

Taylor looked as superb as Froch did against Abraham in the 1st 11 rnds ... lets see if Froch is really a new and improved fighter after the Johnson or Ward fights...
I happen to think we will see the same Froch of old.

Taylor did look good against abraham until the point deduction which subsequently made him chaneg his game plan and had to go for broke and he got caught.

Frocha and his team showed me they can adapt, which is one of the best skills to have in boxing.
froch brawls when eh is up against better boxers than himself and boxes when he can outbox his opponent.

CREDIT TO HIM AND HIS TEAM FOR REALISING WHEN TO DO EITHER. and successfully implementing it.

Agreed
His boxing ability could go along way to defeating Johnson ... his boxing or brawling will see him beaten by Ward

He's a very good coach, and a good man. Not a bad fighter either.

McCraken is an excellent coach, and may just be the reason for our boxers doing well in 2012.
Of course the boxer has to have the raw ability and will to train to start with, but a trainer has to shape that into a champion.
What i like about McCraken is he isn't satisfied to pick up easy money, he's putting his reputation on the line in the lead up to 2012. He doesn't scream and shout in the corner, gets his point of view across well, and keeps it professional.

Been reading through some of the threads - to answer this one - Robert McCracken is one of the very best and a top bloke to boot.

My opinion the trainer of the year for 2010 - not Joe Gallagher!!!

Ive got to say I disagree with your OP. The GB squad are learning from Rob not the other way around. If you watch Carls other fights you'll hear Rob giving him the same advice to box smart but Carl doesnt listen. Rob is basically screaming at him to box and be smart and often Carl argues a bit with him, mistakenly thinking he is being effective (Taylor, Dirrell, Kessler).

Lets remember Rob was an amateur himself at one point, he's hardly going to have his eyes opened to boxing by being GB coach.

DaveBoyMorrison wrote:Ive got to say I disagree with your OP. The GB squad are learning from Rob not the other way around. If you watch Carls other fights you'll hear Rob giving him the same advice to box smart but Carl doesnt listen. Rob is basically screaming at him to box and be smart and often Carl argues a bit with him, mistakenly thinking he is being effective (Taylor, Dirrell, Kessler).

Lets remember Rob was an amateur himself at one point, he's hardly going to have his eyes opened to boxing by being GB coach.

I think this is a worry and it a quality that a good coach should have (he should get the fighters attention and enforce enough respect so he listens).

However, Froch listened against Abraham and fought a very smart tactics... and his whole team need applauding for that.

Yes, he is a good coach. The trouble with him and Froch before the Abraham fight was simple; Froch didn't listen to anything McCracken said. "Put your hands up", was the most common bit of advice. And "use your jab" was another. Hopefully Froch has now started to listen, therefore they're now a shit-hot partnership.

DaveBoyMorrison wrote:Ive got to say I disagree with your OP. The GB squad are learning from Rob not the other way around. If you watch Carls other fights you'll hear Rob giving him the same advice to box smart but Carl doesnt listen. Rob is basically screaming at him to box and be smart and often Carl argues a bit with him, mistakenly thinking he is being effective (Taylor, Dirrell, Kessler).

Lets remember Rob was an amateur himself at one point, he's hardly going to have his eyes opened to boxing by being GB coach.

You say that but I think you would be surprised. For example, it is unclear if McCracken has completed a single amateur coaching badge?

Whilst criticism exists for levels 1 and 2 of amateur coaching 3 and 4 are accepted as fit for purpose. Yes Rob has been a pro coach, but the process of getting a board license is (or it at least wasn't) anywhere near the same standard as receiving a level 4 am coaching badge.

Robert was a fantastic amateur and an accomplished pro but that doesn't translate in to being a good amateur coach and as it stands the two codes are quite far apart.



I would say from the outside looking in Rob is a good manager of people, a good listener and clearly knows the sport, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has learnt a lot from the GB coaches, and the set up in general. Some may say our national amateur set up is a lot more advanced then many pro gyms.

I am not disputing how good a coach McCraken is as his record speaks for itself in the pros. But in the Am's Terry Edwards legacy is impressive and we will see with the extra funding and resources if McCraken can match previous results.

I rate McCracken highly!! I think he's a very good coach and has done wonders for Froch and his confidence ;)

Bomber 1 wrote:I rate McCracken highly!! I think he's a very good coach and has done wonders for Froch and his confidence ;)

Completely off point here but i saw this vid of you bomber in the post fight press conference for degale/smith......having a good old pick of your nose there mate!Lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBrHYm6j4xc