BoxRec

I am just going to throw out a few scenarios and you all can tell me what happens next in your mind.

Joe Frazier is allowed to come out for round 15 against Ali.

Buster Douglas stays down for one extra second and Tyson escapes with his titles.

Hearns moves for 2 more rounds and gets the decision over Leonard. Where do both of their careers go?

Roy Jones Jr. decides to finish his career at heavyweight. You make his realistic career path.

Foreman isn't injured during training camp against Ali. Did that extra time in Africa hurt Foreman or was the outcome going to be similar either way.

Lewis gives Vitali the rematch. They both come in at their best weight and condition. (I think we can agree Lewis was a bit out of shape in the first fight)

Frazier gets smashed up and stopped by the ref. He couldn't see anymore. I am sure Ali was exhausted but he wouldn't have quit. Why would he? Frazier couldn't see!

Tyson would meet Holyfield and lose. He'd get a rematch and lose again. His life and career would be pretty similar to how it went anyway.

Hearns would rematch Leonard (if Ray wanted to). Remember there was some controversy about the scoring (10-8 rounds). It would be another 50-50 all-time classic fight. Leonard's injury would still see him retire early.

Not a real scenario that would ever happen. Jones knew he'd get sparked. See Michael Spinks' Heavyweight career. Build up safe pay days and then cash in...

Foreman-Ali is tricky. There's no doubt Foreman was capable of winning that fight but I think he has a better chance in the USA. Ali still wins.

Vitali would win. Lewis was old and Vitali is a durable man who would be there until the end unless he gets cut again. Lennox was a clever man and he knew what would happen which is why he retired.

[quote="Ezzard"]Frazier gets smashed up and stopped by the ref. He couldn't see anymore. I am sure Ali was exhausted but he wouldn't have quit. Why would he? Frazier couldn't see!



Ali was definitely going to quit or be pulled out at the time Frazier was pulled out, one of the two. That has been widely reported. That's the irony of it.

Ezzard wrote:Not a real scenario that would ever happen. Jones knew he'd get sparked. See Michael Spinks' Heavyweight career. Build up safe pay days and then cash in...

HW was already in decline. Lewis was almost retired, so as long as Jones doesn't face Klitschkos (and WBA champions know how to avoid them) he has a chance against most of top fighters. He can even unify part of the title (IBF) with fading Byrd, who struggled with Oquendo and old Golota shortly after RJJ-Ruiz. Others winnable matches against top fighters are Holyfield, Toney II or rematch with Ruiz (I wonder if Valuev would be able to touch RJJ at this point). I admit he would need some luck here, but it is enough to stay there undefeated another 2 years.

Ezzard wrote: Vitali would win. Lewis was old and Vitali is a durable man who would be there until the end unless he gets cut again. Lennox was a clever man and he knew what would happen which is why he retired.

Vitali took the fight on short notice, but it was Lewis who was obviously fat and out of shape. He wouldn't do the same mistake twice though. Also, Vitali style relies on his size advantage... and Lewis is almost as big as Vitali. Lewis wins this one, this time without any controversies.

jrc26 wrote:I am just going to throw out a few scenarios and you all can tell me what happens next in your mind.

Joe Frazier is allowed to come out for round 15 against Ali.

Buster Douglas stays down for one extra second and Tyson escapes with his titles.

Hearns moves for 2 more rounds and gets the decision over Leonard. Where do both of their careers go?

Roy Jones Jr. decides to finish his career at heavyweight. You make his realistic career path.

Foreman isn't injured during training camp against Ali. Did that extra time in Africa hurt Foreman or was the outcome going to be similar either way.

Lewis gives Vitali the rematch. They both come in at their best weight and condition. (I think we can agree Lewis was a bit out of shape in the first fight)

1. Both men cling, grapple & hang on until the final bell. Ali definitely had it won on the cards. There is a small, small chance, IMO, Frazier would be stopped. I just doubt any ref had the balls to make that call, though, given the magnitude of the bout itself, & the men & their prize involved. Frazier would really have to be out for Padilla to do something, & I don't see Ali pulling that off.

2. Tyson shapes up & turns his career around --- for a while. The crucial fight in his Championship tenure would be Holyfield --- if he can win that, he'd stay on top for a while. Ultimately? He comes undone again.

3. If a rematch takes place, I favour Leonard --- slightly. If it doesn't, Hearns retains ownership of the WW title until he moves up to face Hagler, vacating in the process. Leonard would still need his partial-retirement.

4. Meh. We all know he didn't have the balls for it. I really don't care to.

5. Interesting one. I think the outcome has to be reasonably considered as likely the same, but I do think Foreman's chances improve if he is not delayed. He was patently unhappy in Zaire, & the longer he was there, the greater the distraction & unrest. If the fight happens without delay, Foreman's chances go up, but I don't know how exactly he would change the fight to the point of winning. He was always going to go for broke if Ali laid on the ropes & invited him to tee off.

6. Klitschko is nothing if not robotic & stiff. He was never going to make realistic adjustments for a rematch --- that was his best shot ever, & he couldn't get it done. Good effort, sure, but Lewis only would've been better in the return.

gregor wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Not a real scenario that would ever happen. Jones knew he'd get sparked. See Michael Spinks' Heavyweight career. Build up safe pay days and then cash in...

HW was already in decline. Lewis was almost retired, so as long as Jones doesn't face Klitschkos (and WBA champions know how to avoid them) he has a chance against most of top fighters. He can even unify part of the title (IBF) with fading Byrd, who struggled with Oquendo and old Golota shortly after RJJ-Ruiz. Others winnable matches against top fighters are Holyfield, Toney II or rematch with Ruiz (I wonder if Valuev would be able to touch RJJ at this point). I admit he would need some luck here, but it is enough to stay there undefeated another 2 years.

Ezzard wrote: Vitali would win. Lewis was old and Vitali is a durable man who would be there until the end unless he gets cut again. Lennox was a clever man and he knew what would happen which is why he retired.

Vitali took the fight on short notice, but it was Lewis who was obviously fat and out of shape. He wouldn't do the same mistake twice though. Also, Vitali style relies on his size advantage... and Lewis is almost as big as Vitali. Lewis wins this one, this time without any controversies.

Vitali was scheduled on the undercard of Lewis/Johnson. They both had the same notice, Lennox was just planning on beating up a beached whale. Agree with you on the outcome, Lennox would have knocked him out.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

jrc26 wrote:I am just going to throw out a few scenarios and you all can tell me what happens next in your mind.

Joe Frazier is allowed to come out for round 15 against Ali.

Buster Douglas stays down for one extra second and Tyson escapes with his titles.

Hearns moves for 2 more rounds and gets the decision over Leonard. Where do both of their careers go?

Roy Jones Jr. decides to finish his career at heavyweight. You make his realistic career path.

Foreman isn't injured during training camp against Ali. Did that extra time in Africa hurt Foreman or was the outcome going to be similar either way.

Lewis gives Vitali the rematch. They both come in at their best weight and condition. (I think we can agree Lewis was a bit out of shape in the first fight)

1. Both men cling, grapple & hang on until the final bell. Ali definitely had it won on the cards. There is a small, small chance, IMO, Frazier would be stopped. I just doubt any ref had the balls to make that call, though, given the magnitude of the bout itself, & the men & their prize involved. Frazier would really have to be out for Padilla to do something, & I don't see Ali pulling that off.

2. Tyson shapes up & turns his career around --- for a while. The crucial fight in his Championship tenure would be Holyfield --- if he can win that, he'd stay on top for a while. Ultimately? He comes undone again.

3. If a rematch takes place, I favour Leonard --- slightly. If it doesn't, Hearns retains ownership of the WW title until he moves up to face Hagler, vacating in the process. Leonard would still need his partial-retirement.

4. Meh. We all know he didn't have the balls for it. I really don't care to.

5. Interesting one. I think the outcome has to be reasonably considered as likely the same, but I do think Foreman's chances improve if he is not delayed. He was patently unhappy in Zaire, & the longer he was there, the greater the distraction & unrest. If the fight happens without delay, Foreman's chances go up, but I don't know how exactly he would change the fight to the point of winning. He was always going to go for broke if Ali laid on the ropes & invited him to tee off.

6. Klitschko is nothing if not robotic & stiff. He was never going to make realistic adjustments for a rematch --- that was his best shot ever, & he couldn't get it done. Good effort, sure, but Lewis only would've been better in the return.

I agree on that one. Although everything I have read and seen has pretty much shown that Foreman and maybe even Ali wanted to get the hell out of that country rather than wait for the fight. I think Foreman was miserable there after that, and who knows how much of that misery hurt his chances?

Ali would've beaten Foreman in similar fashion regardless of the delay.

If Frazier had been allowed to come out for the 15th round, Ali would've probably quit on his stool. I think if they actually fought that 15th round, One or both of them would've died.

I think Lewis would've beaten Vitali in a rematch, probably by UD.

If Tyson had gotten the 8th round KO over Buster, I agree he would've gotten in better shape for a while, and maybe made a few more title defenses. I think Holyfield would've beaten him if they fought in late 1990 or 1991 sometime.

If Hearns gets the decision over Leonard, I get the feeling Hearns vs Leonard 2 would've happened much sooner than it did. And the question becomes, how would that have played out.

If Roy Jones remained at Heavy after beating John Ruiz, I could see him fighting a Holyfield or a Chris Byrd type maybe, and getting a few more noteworthy wins. I kinda doubt he'd still be fighting as I think he would've made more money and gotten more big wins if he had remained at Heavyweight. I'm sure Jones would've carefully handpicked all of his opponents at Heavyweight to suit his style best though.

Holyfield/Tyson was already booked. That was his next fight and he would have lost.

I think if Tommy lasted and won the decision the rematch would have been immediate and Hearns would have won via TKO. Leonard's eye would have exploded.

1. The ref stops the fight midway through the 15th round. Ali just jabs the head of Frazier.

2. Tyson continues his dominance. Lewis does NOT stop up to fight Mike. Then Tyson loses to Holyfield anyway on the same date as it happened.

3. There would be arematch between Leonard and Hearns, Sugar wins anyway. Both careers go well and both fighters are remembered as all time greats!!!

4. Jones Jr. becomes unified world champion, he avoids Lewis but loses both his titles to Vitali Klitchsko. He regains atitle when Vitali retires, but loses it when Vitlai comes back. Latyer, he gets atitle shot against Wladimir and loses.

5. The Rope a Dope enusues, and Ali is the victor!

6. Lewis loses the rematch,, Vitlai is the new WBC champ, Lewis retires.

Crease wrote:1. The ref stops the fight midway through the 15th round. Ali just jabs the head of Frazier.

2. Tyson continues his dominance. Lewis does NOT stop up to fight Mike. Then Tyson loses to Holyfield anyway on the same date as it happened.

3. There would be arematch between Leonard and Hearns, Sugar wins anyway. Both careers go well and both fighters are remembered as all time greats!!!

4. Jones Jr. becomes unified world champion, he avoids Lewis but loses both his titles to Vitali Klitchsko. He regains atitle when Vitali retires, but loses it when Vitlai comes back. Latyer, he gets atitle shot against Wladimir and loses.

5. The Rope a Dope enusues, and Ali is the victor!

6. Lewis loses the rematch,, Vitlai is the new WBC champ, Lewis retires.

Up until knocking out Razor Ruddock in 1992. Lennox Lewis wouldn't even have been a viable opponent to Tyson in the opinion of most boxing fans and media at the time. So it wouldn't have been an issue of Lewis stepping up to face Tyson. It would've been does anyone want to watch this unknown British guy fight Tyson. Of course by 1992 Tyson was in jail, and I'm not sure beating Douglas would've stopped that from happening. Although it may have.

gilgamesh wrote:Up until knocking out Razor Ruddock in 1992. Lennox Lewis wouldn't even have been a viable opponent to Tyson

Are you joking, sir? It's not as if Lewis arrived by beating Ruddock,
He had been European Champion for 3 years before fighting for the World Title. So he was an undefeated contender and he had on the world title scene for a while.

Lewis himself said, after he retired, that he had wanted to fight Iron Mike as early as 1994. (And Mike was still in jail at that time).

Crease wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Up until knocking out Razor Ruddock in 1992. Lennox Lewis wouldn't even have been a viable opponent to Tyson

Are you joking, sir? It's not as if Lewis arrived by beating Ruddock,
He had been European Champion for 3 years before fighting for the World Title. So he was an undefeated contender and he had on the world title scene for a while.

Lewis himself said, after he retired, that he had wanted to fight Iron Mike as early as 1994. (And Mike was still in jail at that time).

Stateside, the victory over Ruddock was indeed a coming-out party of sorts for Lewis. Prior to that, he was an unknown quantity in America, in terms of his ability.