BoxRec

Can we list the best individual wins by British fighters and attempt to rank them?
Ill start with a list but im sure people will be able to add and change the list but here is a preliminary idea

1 Turpin - Robinson
2 Lewis - Holyfield
3 Honeyghan - Curry
4 Fitzsimmons - Corbett
5 Calzaghe - Hopkins
6 Buchanan - Laguna
7 Laing - Duran
8 Berg -Canzoneri
9 "kid" Lewis - Britton
10 Stracey - Napoles

Honourable mentions
Hatton - Tszyu, Lewis - Tyson, McGuigan - Pedroza, Berg - Kid Chocolate,

honeyghan over curry no1.

cos of the circumstances.

away from home.

fighting a pound for pounder (most had him or hagler at 1).

undisputed champ.

in his prime.

Still would go for Turpin over Robinson.

McCullough over Yakushi has to be up in the top 5 somewhere.

Catley over Beyer?

Joe Erskine W PTS 10 Willie Pastrano

Joe Erskine W DISQ 5 George Chuvalo

Jock McAvoy W KO 1 Babe Risko

Bruce Woodcock W RSF 8 Gus Lesenvich

Henry Cooper W PTS 10 Zora Folley

How does Catleys win over Beyer rank above any of those in the top 10? It would struggle to probably make it into a top 30

I am not interested necassarily in circumstances more name for name ie when a Brit has beaten a prime or a good version of a top fighter

King Geedorah wrote:He was a dead man walking at that weight and most fight reports from his welterweight heyday reference this. Lloyd posted a huge win but the wheels were going to come off Curry at some point.

Tour or no tour, Turpin beating Robinson was the best of British in my opinion. Robinson blamed the tour, the midget, living in a pub but that doesn't explain the fact that he was at the best he could be for the rematch and was a few shots away from a defeat, Randy had the evil eye over Ray and his style was a nightmare for Robinson.

Ironically, Turpin's defensive method of rolling the shoulder and blocking shots this way may have cost him the rematch, if he'd have taken a knee at the right time he'd have gone onto win that fight.

yeah maybe curry's subsequent woes took some of the gloss off.

robinson is certainly the most high profile british win.

he's still a jolly good fellow for that win alright.

I'm always curious about this retrospective "number 1 PFP at the time" line, with whom? The Ring magazine didn't start doing PFP ratings until the early 90s?

I've an old ring mag that has a long Curry interview in, pre Honeyghan, and it goes into great detail about how he will win world titles at light middle and middle and go on to beat Hagler etc. Almost got there I guess.

There's another with Starling, saying he's the number 1 welterweight.

Always good reading them back with hindsight.

I've a lot of the old fights - I know that some of the HBO chat talks about him being the best fighter around etc - The feeling that Hagler was the best concensus fighter around at the time seems to be fairly universal but I just wonder where people actually get this from, as it's not from the magazine ratings as they didn't exist in the ring then, KO mag maybe.

I just wonder if it's one of those things that gets perpetuated - lazy "journalism" etc - Ottke only won fights by corrupt judging, peak Tyson would knock holes in any fighter in history, Toney was a mile behind against Nunn, Hagler was the best middleweight in history, Pac would beat anyone in history blah blah.

Buchanan beating Laguna over 15 hard rounds in the white hot heat of San Juan,Peurto Rico. He done it again over 15 in MSG. Not bad for a patsy from Portobello?

wrimc wrote:How does Catleys win over Beyer rank above any of those in the top 10? It would struggle to probably make it into a top 30

I am not interested necassarily in circumstances more name for name ie when a Brit has beaten a prime or a good version of a top fighter

Oh okay -so you are thinking irrespective of how the Brit was perceived etc. E.g. I don't see Lewis vs Holyfield as an amazing win cause Lewis was a betting favourite at the time of the fight - was considered nearer his prime and the much bigger man. However, can see why you've placed it so high if you are not thinking of how the Brit was perceived.

Well not sure how Lewis vs a Tyson who struggled to get Brian Neilson out of there should be close to the top ten.

Benn vs McClellan must be up there then.

petr wrote:Buchanan beating Laguna over 15 hard rounds in the white hot heat of San Juan,Peurto Rico. He done it again over 15 in MSG. Not bad for a patsy from Portobello?

Stracey over Napoles too, in his "back yard" etc. I think Stracey said only his corner went with him i.e. no fans travelled.

Calzaghe - Hopkins??

I'm sure i remember Calzaghe being a 1/3 favourite

It doesn't necessarily have to be that the Brit was the underdog it is more to do with what are the best wins by Brit fighters irrespective of it being home away how much of an underdog

For the person that mentioned Benn Mcllellan i would say this was a very good win for Benn but not a top top win i feel it gets overrated because of the drama of the night and the fact that Mcllellan was "the next big thing" and the manner in which the fight played out no doubt it was a great night for British boxing but i would probably place it at around 20-25 in terms of top wins

Yeah, go on then. I'm curious where it would be in "type" with regards to Curry from the time.

wrimc wrote:It doesn't necessarily have to be that the Brit was the underdog it is more to do with what are the best wins by Brit fighters irrespective of it being home away how much of an underdog

For the person that mentioned Benn Mcllellan i would say this was a very good win for Benn but not a top top win i feel it gets overrated because of the drama of the night and the fact that Mcllellan was "the next big thing" and the manner in which the fight played out no doubt it was a great night for British boxing but i would probably place it at around 20-25 in terms of top wins

McCllellan was no Omar Sheika or Jeff Lacy in terms of hype. He was blowing away credible championship level opponents in no time. He was an undefeated Middleweight champion and expected to blow away Benn - and thats not because Benn was underated, but thats because how good people thought McCllellan was. Only Roy Jones was considered to provide any opposition.

Now, Gerald might have been over hyped a tadge - we'll never know how good he was.... but I think he had much more to offer than the 2002 version of Tyson.

I wouldn't call it a good night for British boxing - I call it a very sad night for British boxing.

stujones wrote:
Now, Gerald might have been over hyped a tadge - we'll never know how good he was.... but I think he had much more to offer than the 2002 version of Tyson.

I wouldn't call it a good night for British boxing - I call it a very sad night for British boxing.

Sorry a great night is the wrong choice of words it was a very sad day but it was a big night for British boxing obviously the events that followed were tragic.

The point was he was a big knockout artist that had beaten a past it Jackson and was being moved toward RJJ but what he had achieved up to that point probably doesn't give him the same prestige as some mentioned on the list and you are probably right that i am overrating the 2002 Tyson win for Lewis i may attempt to make the list a top 20 later when i have had a bit of thought

Nice to see the Yanks gave Lloyd his props

"they"...I want to know who they are. This seems to be the problem with people talking about PFP in the 80s.

I find the constant mentions of weight interesting - I've had this debate many times with regards to Curry being weight drained but certain people wouldn't have it. That article suggests 21lbs?

King Geedorah wrote: he lived on the odd cup of tea, sliver of ice and gum for a few days, it is insane.

Sounds like a typical Sunday after the Hacienda for me.

holyfield was battleworn v lewis :!:

How battleworn where would you place it on the list assuming you still think its in the top 10?

hurlock wrote:holyfield was battleworn v lewis :!:

How often is it though that a fighter fights a fresh champion?

It's very rare that you'll ever get two fighters at the very top of their game face each other at all, nevermind a British fighter being one of them.

Holyfield was indeed battleworn but he was the man Lewis had to beat to become recognised as the best heavyweight of his time.

banjo wrote:

hurlock wrote:holyfield was battleworn v lewis :!:

How often is it though that a fighter fights a fresh champion?

It's very rare that you'll ever get two fighters at the very top of their game face each other at all, nevermind a British fighter being one of them.

Holyfield was indeed battleworn but he was the man Lewis had to beat to become recognised as the best heavyweight of his time.

i think when moorer defeated holyfield he was having heart murmur's.lewis arrived a little late & built himself up over here.he was a great fighter but i dont see tyson or holyfield as career defining fight's.bit like calzaghe v roy jones.

& it's not too say i dont appreciate his talents either.

Eubank Ko of BEnn

winner by a country mile

wrimc wrote:Hatton vs Tszyu

Correct.