BoxRec

I searched for a thread about this, but there was only one and that was give years ago. Anyway, I wanted to get your guys opinion on this. We all know what happened with Ali vs Foreman. My question is, if Foreman got a rematch with Ali how do you think it would of gone. I am pretty sure Ali would of still won a rematch. However, I personally do not think he would of done the rope-a-dope like he did the first time. Do you? What other ways do you think Ali would of beat Foreman in a rematch. Does anyone think Foreman would of won in a rematch instead?

I thought if they got a rematch, and Ali did the rope-a-dope again, I would think Foreman would be more careful and made sure every punch was meaningful.

I know it does not matter now, but it is interesting to talk about.

My take on it…

Ali beat Foreman convincingly in the first fight.

But I think that many factors swing Foreman’s way if they fought a year or so later…

1) Ali would be older and a little more faded
2) Foreman would not make the same tactical errors a second time
3) The fight would likely be in the USA which would help George no end
4) Foreman would be mentally prepared for the fight of his life rather than coming off a string of fairly easy wins in which he didn’t have to extend himself

Having said all of this…

Ali’s victory had obviously psychologically effected Foreman. But who knows, maybe this was the way George would exorcise those demons.

And Ali still had it in him to reach down to the depths when he needed to.

I can make a case for either man.

Post-Manila I would bet heavily on Foreman. Previous to that it’s a very, very close one to call.

Ezzard wrote:My take on it…

Ali beat Foreman convincingly in the first fight.

But I think that many factors swing Foreman’s way if they fought a year or so later…

1) Ali would be older and a little more faded
2) Foreman would not make the same tactical errors a second time
3) The fight would likely be in the USA which would help George no end
4) Foreman would be mentally prepared for the fight of his life rather than coming off a string of fairly easy wins in which he didn’t have to extend himself

Having said all of this…

Ali’s victory had obviously psychologically effected Foreman. But who knows, maybe this was the way George would exorcise those demons.

And Ali still had it in him to reach down to the depths when he needed to.

I can make a case for either man.

Post-Manila I would bet heavily on Foreman. Previous to that it’s a very, very close one to call.

Good points. Let be more realistic and just say this fight was about a year or less after the first Ali Foreman. However, I am not sure if Foreman really wanted a rematch that quick. I think he thought he was never able to beat Ali after the way the first fight went.

Who knows? I do know that Ali was fading when he beat Foreman and with each fight that came after it he had faded a little bit more and a little bit more with each of them.

In Ali's favor, Foreman would have been more cautious than he was in the first fight and fighting without caution was one of Foreman's biggest assets.

[quote="ThatOne"]Who knows? .[/quote]

Ali basically did nothing in the fight until George was so exhausted he could have been KO'd by a strong breeze.

In my opinion, two things led to Ali's victory. One is that the ropes were unusually loose - Ali was a great tactical fighter and took advantage of this. Two, Ali had an almost inhuman ability to take punishment (sort of the ultimate good news/bad news scenario in that he surely had victories because of this and he surely had this as a big factor in his present physical problems).

I watched the fight again recently. George was a devastating puncher and pounded Ali. But, Ali with his seemingly inhuman ability to take punishment and his use of the loose ropes, survived the punishment until George was exhausted. I can't imagine anyone else standing up to the punishment George delivered.

After his loss, George did not cave in emotionally. This only happened after he lost to Jimmy Young.

So, if there had been a 2nd fight, in a normal ring without loose ropes - I think George would have been better prepared, would have paced himself a bit better and Ali would not have been able to do as effective a rope-a-dope. So, I think it would have been similar to Larry Holmes vs Ali - George would have been better, Ali would have been a bit older and George would have kicked Ali's ass.

TigerMoth wrote:

ThatOne wrote:Who knows? .

Ali basically did nothing in the fight until George was so exhausted he could have been KO'd by a strong breeze.

In my opinion, two things led to Ali's victory. One is that the ropes were unusually loose - Ali was a great tactical fighter and took advantage of this. Two, Ali had an almost inhuman ability to take punishment (sort of the ultimate good news/bad news scenario in that he surely had victories because of this and he surely had this as a big factor in his present physical problems).

I watched the fight again recently. George was a devastating puncher and pounded Ali. But, Ali with his seemingly inhuman ability to take punishment and his use of the loose ropes, survived the punishment until George was exhausted. I can't imagine anyone else standing up to the punishment George delivered.

After his loss, George did not cave in emotionally. This only happened after he lost to Jimmy Young.

So, if there had been a 2nd fight, in a normal ring without loose ropes - I think George would have been better prepared, would have paced himself a bit better and Ali would not have been able to do as effective a rope-a-dope. So, I think it would have been similar to Larry Holmes vs Ali - George would have been better, Ali would have been a bit older and George would have kicked Ali's ass.

Great point. In the Ali-Foreman fight, I think Foreman saw that he had the advantage because Ali was letting him to throw punches. He later figured out he was wrong and anyone would know not to make the same mistake the second fight.

I still think Ali was the smartest heavy weight of all time. I am sure he could of figured out another way to win, without dancing like he did against Liston (to old for that) or rope-a-dope.

Does anyone know if Foreman wanted a rematch against Ali?

I believe he was desperate for a rematch.

The thing is Ali barely missed a punch in their first fight. He also smothered a lot of Foreman's shots and took the sting out of them.

He hits Foreman flush many, many times but I’m not sure that George hit him flush once.

Ali gave up the body though. He took a pounding there. It would have been interesting to see their effect later on in the fight.

Foreman wouldn't get puffed out again, I'd go with a Foreman KO in the mid rounds.

George improved greatly as a fighter post Ziare, as evidenced by the fights themselves. He developed patience and control and I think he would have a very good chance of beating Ali had the rematch been held in late '76 or early '77 when he had improved and Ali had declined a bit.

Many claim that George developed new skills during his second career, and while that is somewhat true, the patience, control and improved combination punching he exhibited in his second career was, for the most part, learned post Ziare during his first career. To me it's quite apparent if you watch his fights.

I put Ali Decision. Considering this fight would be no more than 1-2 years after the first, I believe he would not have done the rope-a-dope again, he would not be able to dance. He probably would have done a little bit of both I think.

I am starting to reconsider my decision. I am starting think maybe Foreman wins by a Knockout, TKO, or RTD or something. If it went to a decision I think Ali would of won the last rounds and won.

TigerMoth wrote:

ThatOne wrote:Who knows? .

So, if there had been a 2nd fight, in a normal ring without loose ropes - I think George would have been better prepared, would have paced himself a bit better and Ali would not have been able to do as effective a rope-a-dope. So, I think it would have been similar to Larry Holmes vs Ali - George would have been better, Ali would have been a bit older and George would have kicked Ali's ass.

Ali was 32 when he fought Foreman. He was 38 when he fought Holmes. That's a huge difference. Even though Ali had faded by the time he fought Foreman , no boxer, alive or dead, would have kicked that version of Ali's ass. Outpointed him? perhaps.Kick his ass(never). And even at 33 or 34 no boxer is "kicking his ass".

Shavers hit harder than Foreman or just as hard and he couldn't beat a thirty five year old Ali's ass.

You have to fast forward to when he was totally shot to find an example of a boxer "kicking his ass".

And to those suggesting Foreman would knock out Ali it wasn't until he was totally shot that happened.

Granberry sends his love and says he's glad to see some of his fans are still carrying the torch.

I went with Ali by decision. The only way Foreman was going to win was to keep Ali in the centre of the ring and make it a toe to toe affair, which was never going to happen.... I fancy Ali would always hit Foreman clean even on the backfoot whilst keeping big George far enough away to make him loop his shot round due to Ali's tight gaurd.

Foreman would have a better chance for a knockout than many would expect. It's hard to picture Ali down & out, since he never was, but look at his fight with Shavers. He's badly-rocked by him early, & just never gets out in front dramatically on points. I tell you, Shavers wasn't half the fighter, or the wrecking ball, Foreman was. He wasn't known for endurance, either. If Shavers can last fifteen & get within a point or two of the decision, Foreman can.

Now, that was 1977, & pretty late in the day for Ali. Still, Foreman was headed for this fight around the same time, so it lends weight to Foreman's case. On the other hand, Ali had badly wounded him psychologically (though Foreman did still chase a return fight), & Shavers didn't have to deal with that. Someone above me said one of Foreman's greatest assets was fighting without caution, & his loss to Ali would make him more cautious --- excellent, excellent point, & definitely in Ali's favour.

I will answer as I always do when it comes to this rematch --- I simply cannot make a prediction I would be satisfied with. It's one of those bouts you'd just have to see to know, IMO.

You guys makes made some great points! If the bout happened 1-2 years after the first, I would say Ali wins by decision because the only way Ali would be able to knock out Foreman is he tires him out like he did the first fight. But since Foreman would be more cautious this time, I think it would go to a decision, but Ali would still wins. I just do not see Foreman be able to win against Ali in a decision or knocking Ali out. Of course if this fight was about 1-2 years before the Holmes fight, Foreman would win.

If Foreman had his head on straight it would be competitive. However at that point in time he remained a basket case in the psyche dept. Foreman finds a way to lose. More to the point, Ali exploits his weakness. This is one area where Foreman completely improves, matures and develops in his next incarnation. He becomes made of the same sort of steel Ali is made of, in the second part of his career. But timing is everything.

Foreman wins. If Ali could almost get kayoed by Shavers in 1977, then Foreman could have done it for sure. Ali was avoiding Foreman since Zaire.

I agree with those who say that when the fight would take place would be crucial.
Foreman didn't want to fight Ali at this point. He really didn't seem to want to fight anyone since he didn't fight anyone for over a year after their fight.
In 1975 Ali still had a lot left and should have been able to beat Foreman. Foreman probably would not have thrown so many punches so early in the fight and would have had more gas in the tank.

However, he probably would not have had the confidence that used to have either. Mentally, he would be in worse condition.

He isn't going to be able to knock Ali out. He hit Ali with everything he had in the first fight and never came close. So the chances of a Foreman win by knockout is very remote. Ali would continue to nail him with clean punches as he did in their first fight.
Even at a slower pace, it is unlikely that Foreman is going to last 15 rounds. If somehow he does, Ali wins an easy decision. Foreman is not going to win a 15-round decision.

By far the most likely result is Ali winning by stoppage in the later rounds if the fight takes place in 1975.

1976-1977 is harder to say. Ali clearly declined after the 3rd Frazier fight.
However, Foreman was never as good after the Ali loss.
He took off all of 1975. A rusty Foreman almost lost to Lyle in 1976. He did beat Frazier, but had more trouble than the first time. And of course he looked horrible against Jimmy Young in 1977. By the time Ali fought Earnie Shavers, Foreman was already retired.

Even though Ali was slipping by 1976, he probably had enough to beat a rusty Foreman in 1976. A fight in 1976 or 1977 would have been near the same quality as 1974 but still would have interesting and hard to predict.

What's interesting is if you read the responses closely you can see some of the posters pusing the bout all the way to 1980 .

I think George may have come out even more reckless in a quick rematch. I'm not totally comfortable saying Foreman can't do anything. But I honestly don't think beating ali was ever in the cards for him.

One inaccuracy I just read is that Georg looked horrible against Jimmy Young. It's a common misconception that because he lost he was schooled from the opening bell. He ran out of gas against an excellent fighter, but he looked good for a large portion of that fight imo. And he definitely wasn't horrible.

I think one should place this hypthetical fight in the time-frame it was GOING to happen, which was post-Manilla. Foreman took a lenghty layoff after Zaire and then needed to polish up his skills . . .an immediate rematch was never in the cards, but a Foreman rematch was WIDELY discussed for 1976 up to the Young defeat in 1977. In 1976, I would place big money on Foreman avenging his defeat.

In a Rematch, I still see Ali winning. Maybe George would try pacing himself some-what more, but I reckon Ali wins by TKO in about 9/10 rounds.

However, Ali would have had to absorb so much punishment & who knows what that might have done to him?

If they would have fought anytime in 75 Ali still wins. At that time Foreman was incapable of fundamentally altering his style and if he did he would have looked every bit the fish out of water Joe Frazier looked when he attempted to change his style in his second fight with Foreman.

Foreman wins a rematch in my opinion. The Foreman fight was almost like the beginning of Ali falling off a cliff in terms of physical health. He made himself more of a legend with the win but at the cost of Foreman helping him achieve parkinson's syndrome with all of those thudding/grazing shots.

Around 75-77 or essentially before Foreman fought Young and had his religious epiphany Ali was fading fast and I'd say Foreman would've probably boxed a little bit smarter and would've essentially out-physique-ed Ali later in the fight with his power piled on.

If the great Muhammad Ali fought the great George Foreman in a rematch in 1976, would have been much better fight for Big George. Why? Ali was about finished after that grueling fight in Manila with the great Joe Frazier. He lost big time with Ken Norton, but Ken was snubbed. And finally, Jimmy Young made him looked bad. Foreman in the other hand demolished Frazier again and had that big fight slugfest with Ron Lyle. That fight with Lyle gave Foreman lots of confidence.
Prime for Prime, Foreman never beats Ali. But by 1976, Ali was probably shot or in decline.