BoxRec

Okay, the refereeing was poor, but Reid's lack of workrate again led to him snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Ottke finished the better and deserved the close but unanimous verdict in his favour in my opinion.
And two scores of 115-113 show the judges weren't biased.
Reid, as in the Calzaghe fight, blew it.

bennie wrote:Okay, the refereeing was poor, but Reid's lack of workrate again led to him snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Ottke finished the better and deserved the close but unanimous verdict in his favour in my opinion.
And two scores of 115-113 show the judges weren't biased.
Reid, as in the Calzaghe fight, blew it.

Agreed, looking at the tape again last night, if you want the title you have got to take it from the champion and Reid didnt do enough.

He should have turned it into a streetfight, and yes I know he may have been disqulified for doing so, but in this situation there was no other way but to throw caution to the wind.

i had Reid winning myself but i am no judge!!!

the important thing is fighters always tire late on when they go to Germany.

All Ottkes and Darius's opponents know they have to go for the knock out from the first bell. On neutral ground they wouldnt have to do this and would spread there efforts over the 12 rounds like D-Man and Ottke always do. As it is they exhaust themselves looking for a knockout which they see as the only way to win. Hence Ottke and D-man always coming on strong in the later rounds.

I still say that on neutral ground Reid would have won...

No, he wasn't robbed and I had Ottke winning by two rounds also. However, Reid performed the better of the two. He was in charge in the first half of the fight whilst Otte narrowly nicked his later rounds to clinch it.

Allowing for the referee's failure to rule the knockdown and then deducting the point from Reid it would have been a draw - perhaps a fairer result.

knockout wrote:i had Reid winning myself but i am no judge!!!

the important thing is fighters always tire late on when they go to Germany.

All Ottkes and Darius's opponents know they have to go for the knock out from the first bell. On neutral ground they wouldnt have to do this and would spread there efforts over the 12 rounds like D-Man and Ottke always do. As it is they exhaust themselves looking for a knockout which they see as the only way to win. Hence Ottke and D-man always coming on strong in the later rounds.

I still say that on neutral ground Reid would have won...

Good post.

I totally disagree...

The refereeing wasn't POOR, it was BENT, simple as. Reid had no hope of knocking Ottke out, every time he hit him with a hard shot, he was warned for some imaginary crime, and then the two were broken up.

Ottke is a pudendum, he blatantly whinged and moaned about things that were not happening, and then fouled Ottke at every opportunity knowing he would never be deducted points. He turned his back on Reid at one point, then complained because a shot landed on his kidneys, what a wanker!

Had the referee not interjected at every given opportunity, warned Reid every time he landed a shot for going low or landing rabbit punches, perhaps Reid would have knocked him out.

Even with Reid being poor in the last 6, I still gave him 2 of fhose rounds. Ottke wasn't exactly landing anything much aside from his head and shoulder.

As for everyone knowing you have to knock the opponent out in germany, if that's the case, then they should not allow any major title belt. Ok the same thing happens occasionally in other countries, but not to the extent it goes on in Germany, the sanctioning bodies are allowing their belts to be retained by nothing other than the fact that German fighters refuse to leave their own country, because they know they are not good enough to retain their belts anywhere but home territory. I really could not be more disgusted...

Put it this way, Don King had Rahman, Mayorga and Joppy on that bill, and yet all 3 of three of them lost on the cards, so if we are going to talk about DK being corrupt, then it shows how much more corrupt German officials are surely, at least King fighters lose sometimes. Universum fighters only lose if they get stopped, otherwise they win every time.

How in fucks name could Reid have been down 2 rounds going into the 5th? That is impossible, Ottke did NOTHING in the first 4 rounds, he didn't land a single clean scoring punch that I can remember.

that was the most disgusting refereeing job I ever saw, I am sorry, but that guy was BLATANTLY paid off to give Ottke every possible chance. I guarantee that if Reid had somehow knocked him out, they would have said it was a rabbit punch or found some way to ensure Ottke retained the belt.

No way on gods earth could Ottke have won more than 4 rounds by my reckoning.

The knockdown blatantly was a knockdown, the ref never even considered giving it as such.

Even a friend of mine who knows not a lot about boxing was shouting at the screen 'What the fornicate is the referee doing,

The ref stopped Reid fighting the way he wanted to, he was getting to the stage where he was being warned simply for hitting his opponent. When Reid started to tire, suddenly the ref stops coming between them, to ensure that Ottke is allowed to throw in his head and his shoulder, and then tie Reid up.

I honestly think that is a disgusting piece of corruption, and I am going to write a letter to the respective governing bodies asking them to explain how on earth they are allowing a piece of shit like Ottke who in my opinion was in collusion with the referee to retain his belts in such a manner.

I don't know how Reid restrained himself from clocking the ref, considering how much he was pulled up over non-existant infractions....

Ottke will not go down as a great fighter, but as a fraud.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I totally disagree...

The refereeing wasn't POOR, it was BENT, simple as. Reid had no hope of knocking Ottke out, every time he hit him with a hard shot, he was warned for some imaginary crime, and then the two were broken up.

Ottke is a pudendum, he blatantly whinged and moaned about things that were not happening, and then fouled Ottke at every opportunity knowing he would never be deducted points. He turned his back on Reid at one point, then complained because a shot landed on his kidneys, what a wanker!

Had the referee not interjected at every given opportunity, warned Reid every time he landed a shot for going low or landing rabbit punches, perhaps Reid would have knocked him out.

Even with Reid being poor in the last 6, I still gave him 2 of fhose rounds. Ottke wasn't exactly landing anything much aside from his head and shoulder.

As for everyone knowing you have to knock the opponent out in germany, if that's the case, then they should not allow any major title belt. Ok the same thing happens occasionally in other countries, but not to the extent it goes on in Germany, the sanctioning bodies are allowing their belts to be retained by nothing other than the fact that German fighters refuse to leave their own country, because they know they are not good enough to retain their belts anywhere but home territory. I really could not be more disgusted...

Put it this way, Don King had Rahman, Mayorga and Joppy on that bill, and yet all 3 of three of them lost on the cards, so if we are going to talk about DK being corrupt, then it shows how much more corrupt German officials are surely, at least King fighters lose sometimes. Universum fighters only lose if they get stopped, otherwise they win every time.

How in fucks name could Reid have been down 2 rounds going into the 5th? That is impossible, Ottke did NOTHING in the first 4 rounds, he didn't land a single clean scoring punch that I can remember.

that was the most disgusting refereeing job I ever saw, I am sorry, but that guy was BLATANTLY paid off to give Ottke every possible chance. I guarantee that if Reid had somehow knocked him out, they would have said it was a rabbit punch or found some way to ensure Ottke retained the belt.

No way on gods earth could Ottke have won more than 4 rounds by my reckoning.

The knockdown blatantly was a knockdown, the ref never even considered giving it as such.

Even a friend of mine who knows not a lot about boxing was shouting at the screen 'What the fornicate is the referee doing,

The ref stopped Reid fighting the way he wanted to, he was getting to the stage where he was being warned simply for hitting his opponent. When Reid started to tire, suddenly the ref stops coming between them, to ensure that Ottke is allowed to throw in his head and his shoulder, and then tie Reid up.

I honestly think that is a disgusting piece of corruption, and I am going to write a letter to the respective governing bodies asking them to explain how on earth they are allowing a piece of shit like Ottke who in my opinion was in collusion with the referee to retain his belts in such a manner.

I get the impression you feel quite strongly about this James?



HH

I was so pissed off after 4 rounds that I stopped scoring, although I know by the end of the fight it did seem like Ottke had pegged back significantly.

I agree about the awful, awful bitching from Ottke. He'd NEVER get away with that anywhere else it was a disgrace.

I keep wondering what would have happened had Reid pounced on Ottke as he started his latest complaint, and somehow managed to knock him out. What would the referee have done then? Obviously disqualified Reid but for what? Attacking an opponent who had just created his own time-out to talk to the referee? I'd have loved to have seen them try it.

I reckon were Calzaghe to go over there that's exactly what he'd try and do - crack the so-called champion while he's moaning. Robin was perhaps a little too obedient in the end. He allowed himself to be bullied by the whole arrangement, but I suppose he felt he had to be going about things the right way even if nobody else was.

My friend said 'what's the point of Reid fighting if that's what happens.'

If Reid had knocked Ottke out whilst he was complaining

Ottke looked on the way out in the 1st half of the fight, Reid was landing at will, but he was forced to abandon his tactics as the ref wouldn't allow him to prosper because he was having too much success. It was noticable that once Reid started coming forward, which was working far less well, the ref left him alone

I do feel EXTREMELY strongly about this, I am really sick and tired of following such a pointless sport, what's the bloody point. If a man with two world titles is only still champ because someone paid of the ref to make sure he wins, then I see no point in those belts at all.

I don't even particularly like Reid, but he should have been the clear winner that night, even with the 4 point reversal of round 6 which should have been 10-8 for Reid, but was actually scored 10-8 for Ottke.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:My friend said 'what's the point of Reid fighting if that's what happens.'

If Reid had knocked Ottke out whilst he was complaining

Ottke looked on the way out in the 1st half of the fight, Reid was landing at will, but he was forced to abandon his tactics as the ref wouldn't allow him to prosper because he was having too much success. It was noticable that once Reid started coming forward, which was working far less well, the ref left him alone

I do feel EXTREMELY strongly about this, I am really sick and tired of following such a pointless sport, what's the bloody point. If a man with two world titles is only still champ because someone paid of the ref to make sure he wins, then I see no point in those belts at all.

I don't even particularly like Reid, but he should have been the clear winner that night, even with the 4 point reversal of round 6 which should have been 10-8 for Reid, but was actually scored 10-8 for Ottke.

@ the my friend comment...

Actually mate i fully agree it is so disheartening sometimes but then you will always get those special fights that remind you of everything good about boxing such as the Gatti vs Ward trilogy,Brodie vs Chi (except for the decision),Gomez vs Arthur etc....

I really want someone to expose Ottke but i dont think anyone will get the chance.

HH

Like I said elsewhere, the mentality of the tv producer was no better. Instead of giving us a reply of the knockdown (whether recorded as such or not) what did we get? That's right, a slo-mo of that pathetic excuse for a ref stealing a point of Reid for no reason.

Makes you wonder what the German tv commentators made of it all, they're probably in on the whole thing.

Ottke will never be defeated in Germany, unless someone knocks him cold with one clean punch.

Like I SAID elsewhere, Robin Reid knew what you had to do in Germany, and he didn't do it. If it was me, I'd have roughed Ottke up to nonsense, I'd rather lose knowing he got a beating than lose on points which over there is an inevitability.

Just a question I always ponder when I see poor officiating abroad: our are own referees any better? Mickey Vann is virtually Ricky Hatton's own referee, Terry O'Connor allows a complaining Michael Sprott to get knocked cold, John Keane awards the vacant British welterweight title to a house fighter, and John Coyle allows Mike Tyson to get away with assaulting a dazed, beaten fighter. It wasn't until I read Gavin Evans' fantastic book, "Dancing Shoes is Dead", which gives a South African perspective on world boxing, that I realized just how poorly our officials are regarded.

You're right Bennie but how many of our refs would go out of their way to protect a fighter like that idiot at the weekend?

No doubt we'll get the Hatton v Magee instance thrown in but there can't be too many others.

This is an excellent thread.
You know, at the end of the day, Robin Reid IS a dirty fighter! The low blow he threw in the last round against Silvio Branco was a disgrace - and he got away with non-stop infringements in the Calzaghe fight, too. Did his luck run out against Ottke?

I had Sven Ottke winning by 115-114 and I'm including round 6 as a 10-8 round to reid even though after carefull analysis on playback, it did look like a push!

Although the ref was over indulgent in his refereeing, HE DID A GOOD JOB. As Benny said, REID IS A DIRT FIGHTER.

Maybe what we were seeing was that a Ref was actually doing a Proper job by the Laws of the game and maybe he was just too complicent to the laws.

Anyway,

One last thing I want to say is this.

I was very impressed by Sven Ottke, He's much better than I was led to beleive and a Fantastic Technical boxer.

OTTKE would beat Calazaghe no problem. He's one of those fighters who just does enough to win. I Have no doubt that he's only really fought at 50% of his capabilities so far and if needed could move up gears and fight harder.

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Being "Champion" has Ottke ever officially stated why he won't fight outside of Germany?

I mean we know why (home town decisions, padding out a career etc..) but I wondered what Ottke actually states about it.

Surely hes been offered opportunities to fight elsewhere for big money, so why has he turned them down?

I stand corrrected...he once had a fight in Vienna.... Wow...

nasty wrote: Although the ref was over indulgent in his refereeing, HE DID A GOOD JOB.

Some advice for you after that comment Nasty - DUCK!!

nasty - I have a feeling that your (idiotic) comments above are just an attempt to get a rise out of people on a British forum.

I can't believe you genuinely think what you have written, so I won't rise to it..........

nasty wrote:Although the ref was over indulgent in his refereeing, HE DID A GOOD JOB. As Benny said, REID IS A DIRTY FIGHTER.

Yes, I said Robin is a dirty fighter, but the referee didn't do a good job, Nasty. My user name is a bit too close to that somewhat original take on things.

Well.

I rather have ref like this guy than ref's that have allowed dirty fighters to use their heads and elbows to open cuts or who strike their opponents below the belt.

Look, I don't know about what the British commentators said but from what I SAW REID hit ottke at least 5 times below the belt!



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The Next Britsh World Heavyweight Champion
http://www.audleyharrison.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Next Great Heavyweight Champion of the world
http://www.babyjoemesi.com
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HELP SAVE AMERICA FROM G.W.BUSH AND THE ZIONIST'S
VOTE GOV. HOWARD DEAN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2004
http://www.deanforamerica.com
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Reid has been a dirty fighter in the past, but he wasn't fighting at all dirty in that fight. I saw one borderline shot which looked accidental.

I expected Ottke to be a hell of a lot better than that, I've seen him before now, and he looked pretty good defensively.

As for Ottke being excellent, he didn't land 1 meaningful shot in the 1st 6 rounds for gods sake, and was beaten to the punch consistently by Reid even though Ottke was meant to be the better counterpuncher.

Ottke looked quite shot to me, he had hardly anything, and I think that without the obvious collusion of the referee, he would have been knocked flat on his arse more than once.

He won 4 of the last 6 rounds, because Reid was simply out of gas, due to his poor conditioning, which was always likely to be the case with his level of opposition recently.