BoxRec

I love the sport of boxing and it frustrates me when i see some glaringly obvious improvements that could be made but haven't. Everybody has their own opinion but I would like to hear what the fans think of the following ideas and maybe some of the boxers/promoters/journalists that post on here and feel free to pm me to discuss them further. I would love to get involved in boxing behind the scenes in some capacity. We need to rebuild boxing as a brand again in this country

Promoters
I often feel like the advertisement of shows is not what it could be as especially tv promoters are happy to fall back on the tv money and attendance at a fight then becomes a secondary concern. Though some promoters utilise social media such as Youtube Facebook and Twitter it is still a vastly underused tool that is at their disposal in the promotion of fights and interaction with fans.

Promoters especially larger ones such as Warren and Maloney need to put more "local" shows on Warren could have monthly shows in Liverpool, Glasgow, Manchester and London to build up some of his lesser fighters who though only 5-0 dont see action for months on end as they are waiting for a tv date. Surely putting on shows that make little money or break even but build a big following for the fighter and develop them would be more beneficial than letting them stagnate. There is no reason why a prospect can't fight 8-10 times in their first year as a pro injury free on a mixture of tv and non tv shows. I know being from Liverpool that a show ever month or two at the Olympia with Joe Selkirk Liam Smith Joe McNally Paul Butler and a few other local fighters would draw 1000-1500 the more the fighters fight the more they get paid and the more exposure they have.

I know its hard for promoters because of lack of suitable venues but bigger venues would be better and the introduction of a half price u16's ticket to get the younger generation involved wouldn't go a miss

TV (Sky)
Sky is currently the only network showing boxing and thus they have a monopoly and are single handedly carrying boxing they therefore have a right to deliver the best quality possible.

Sky need to take a more hands on role in the vetting fighters and and forcing fights that they do want and rejecting those that they don't. Sky have the power to say we only want a top 10 domestic opponent for David Price in his next fight or we wont show it. They may have to bankroll the promotion fractionally more but the quality of the cards will increase as a result. The promoters have no option but to listen.

Adding an extra half hour at least would allow for showing another two 4 rounders on the undercard or at the very least highlights of undercard fights. Two fights per night is not enough and at the very least should be looking to show highlights of knockouts or results in other undercard fights that would take 5-10mins.

Sky currently seem to have no structured plan in building the next big stars. They seem to just have a policy of "lets see who emerges" Would it not be more beneficial to take 10-15 top prospects and push them hard and build them as attractions. This would still leave the door open for other fighters to break through but there needs to be a plan to build the next stars.

After the next round of sky contracts expire I think non of them should be renewed. Promoters should be left to bid for the dates available and this would ensure that the best cards were being made possible for those dates as each promoter would be in competition. It would also allow for good cards from Hennessey or VIP to get a look in from television where they were criminally ignored before.

Boxers
Boxers have it hard but in my opinion they need to be prepared to fight more often especially in their opening few years as a pro as this is when you are going to learn and develop a fanbase and it will ultimately give you the opportunity to earn more money and fight more often.

I know some boxers do this already but they need to be role models for the community we need to get rid of the stereotype thug image that many casuals have of the sport. Getting involved in community projects getting your face out there locally will build the fanbase and increase awareness of boxing.

British Boxing Board of Control
I get the impression that the BBBC is a very traditional organisation that is resistant to change. I feel that the BBBC could do so much more in improving the sport in this country.

They have the power to make or break fights but i think the one thing they have to do is bring out monthly ratings. A top 10 of British boxers in each division would both make it easy for the fan and increase transparency of the route to the British title. Nominating fighters for particular fights implies that deals have been made and it can often leave the average fan bemused as to why this particular fights has been made ahead of another.

In conjunction with the production of ratings domestic titles should be used as legitimate stepping stones to improving rankings rather than tools for promotion. Area titles have a great tradition in this country but now often lie dormant for years. They need to be revived as legitimate domestic belts as a way of boosting rankings and moving towards English then British title level.

I look forward to hearing everyones thoughts either in this thread or by PM

The Board has changed more under Rob than any other time in it's history.

taffytoon wrote:The Board has changed more under Rob than any other time in it's history.

What has Rob Smith introduced may I ask? I hear he does good work but i just feel that the BBBC can be a much more powerful body in the sport than it is at the moment and in my opinion producing ratings is crucial to transparency and to make it easier for the casual fan

Sky TV should be adopting the HBO / Showtime approach to fights, start using there weight and pick and choose the fights/cards they actually want rather than letting the promoters have the power once they have a contract in hand. FW would be an idiot not to abuse that position of trust really, he's only hear for the money anyway.

The one thing I would set about trying to do is give British Title fights more clout.

To be a British champion should be an honour.

Never mind the WBO-Interim-Inter-Continental Title. Let's play on the history of the British Title.

I'd get a British title fight on TV every month.

Let's get the fighters on Talk Sport and Sky Sports News.

It's pointless trying to copy the Yanks. We only have a small talent pool. So let's make the most of it.

keithmoonhangover wrote:The one thing I would set about trying to do is give British Title fights more clout.

To be a British champion should be an honour.

Never mind the WBO-Interim-Inter-Continental Title. Let's play on the history of the British Title.

I'd get a British title fight on TV every month.

Let's get the fighters on Talk Sport and Sky Sports News.

It's pointless trying to copy the Yanks. We only have a small talent pool. So let's make the most of it.

Thats what i have tried to set out by giving the regional titles a more structured system it gives a defined route for advancement for all fighters and in the process revives the importance and prestige of area belts and the ultimate prestige of the British because it is hard fought over. Not everybody can be a champion people should earn title fights it should be a real achievement winning an area title not just a stepping stone used by a promoter. If people dont know the defined structure of titles in the UK then area/english belts are pointless they might as well be the WBF intercontinental belt because the average punter doesnt know the difference.

Getting the fighters on Talk sport isnt as easy as it sounds the BBC have to make the first move and they wont until boxing sorts its house out

I think you've made some really good suggestions. I particularly like the idea of building up prospects on regular local shows. Perhaps one of the terrestial channels could be persuaded to show a 30 minute highlights programme, i.e free publicity for the promoter at no cost to the tv company.
To be honest a lot of the current Commonwealth title fights are not really worthy of anything better than area ,or at best, English title status. Commonwealth title fights should be on the lines of Mitchell v Katsidis.

roy wrote:I think you've made some really good suggestions. I particularly like the idea of building up prospects on regular local shows. Perhaps one of the terrestial channels could be persuaded to show a 30 minute highlights programme, i.e free publicity for the promoter at no cost to the tv company.
To be honest a lot of the current Commonwealth title fights are not really worthy of anything better than area ,or at best, English title status. Commonwealth title fights should be on the lines of Mitchell v Katsidis.

There used to be some brilliant commonwealth title fights back in the day but with the myriad of other belt it seems that the commonwealth is being foregone by top Canadian and Australian fighters these days as it is just too expensive because of the logistics and distance involved in staging such fights which is a shame.

This is why i really think that we need to try and boost the current area to British system to try and bring some rigidity and structure to our own domestic fights which makes it easier to follow for the casual fan and brings a bit more transparency.

A kotv type roundup of British local shows would be brilliant there doesnt have to be massive production costs freelancers can film the shows for a fraction of the cost that it would for an entire production team sell it fairly cheap (in tv terms) to the network and they can collate it together surely that isnt that expensive?

Good topic and like your suggestions. A couple of my own are:

1. Much easier said than done but we really do need to get top level boxing back on terrestrial tv. Kids are generally inspired to box by watching the superstars rather than the average fighters and having fighters like Carl Froch, who are arguably our best pound for pound fighter at the moment on some obscure channel streamed on the internet is completely wasting one of the best in the talent pool. Promotors need to try harder to work with the TV companies to ensure that at least some top level fights are shown as at present our best fighters are relative unknowns compared with the fighters of yester year. I.e the likes of Bruno, Benn and Eubank.

2. Related to the first point, is that boxing needs to be more affordable to the normal fans. Compared with most other spectator sports, boxing is an extremely expensive activity to watch live with decent seats for even reasonable fights costing well over a hundred pounds and for top level fights nearer a thousand. This added to the fact that almost all half decent shows are now PPV means that the average fan is forced to shell out an awful lot more than followers of many sports just to watch. In a recession this can only last so long.

3. Promotors really need to stop being obsessed with protecting our up and coming fighters so the point where the mere thought of them facing someone who could hand them their first defeat is unthinkable. Of course fighters need time to develop but the likes of Kell Brook, John Murray and even some of the newer fighters like David Price are not being done any favours by being given repeated tomato cans to knock over. Fighters like Enzo Maccarinelli are a classic example of how overprotecting a fighter does them no favours in the long run. Fortunately with fights like Degale v Groves this trend may now be coming to an end but fighters need real tests and early on if they want to develop into superstars.

Some good points made here i think there is very little emphasis put on the long term promotion of boxers mainly because of the nature of the business. The nature of the contracts and the way promoters are often managers these days they are reluctant to push boxers and invest in them long term. there is some effort for example with the Olympians of a big marketing push but not so much with some of the lesser marquee boxers

LETS GET SOME DEBATE GOING GUYS!!!!

One of the biggest problems for me, and I don't think this is just in the UK, is that we have an obsession with undefeated records. This is why promoters are protecting their fighters so much, and why we don't see the best vs the best as often as we'd like.

Certain sections of the media don't help, when they say a fighter is "finished" after his 1st defeat. It makes the fighters and their managers terrified of losing, so the top guys avoid each other until they have no choice but to meet.

If I were a manager I'd say to my beaten fighter "You lost. So what? Get up, learn from it, move on." If more people adopted this attitude, boxing would be a lot better for it.

I agree that addressing the TV/promoters' issue would help, but I think a general change in mentality would do the sport a world of good. Easier said than done though!

greenyox3 wrote:One of the biggest problems for me, and I don't think this is just in the UK, is that we have an obsession with undefeated records. This is why promoters are protecting their fighters so much, and why we don't see the best vs the best as often as we'd like.

Certain sections of the media don't help, when they say a fighter is "finished" after his 1st defeat. It makes the fighters and their managers terrified of losing, so the top guys avoid each other until they have no choice but to meet.

If I were a manager I'd say to my beaten fighter "You lost. So what? Get up, learn from it, move on." If more people adopted this attitude, boxing would be a lot better for it.

I agree that addressing the TV/promoters' issue would help, but I think a general change in mentality would do the sport a world of good. Easier said than done though!

I agree there is a fear and i think it comes a bit from promoters a bit from the boxers themselves and a bit from the media that an undefeated record is the most important thing in boxing.

I think with some fighters a loss is in some ways a weight off their shoulders and it means they are prepared to go out work harder and ultimately come back stronger. Some fighters dont recover from losses though so i think yes we would like to see harder matches but i think some fighters needs to be brought along carefuly

Just wandering, have you ever heard of the Marketing mix?
Just to sum it up, the main problem I can identify is that the money makers are looking for the easy way to make money, rather than please the target audience and make a higher turnover that way. If you read a bit on the marketing mix you could probably catergorise every single issue into those 4 catergories (price, product, place, promotion) and I'm not kidding either.

Maybe worth looking at it if you do want to become a bit of a voice for boxing fans. (we need one)

Atom Bomb wrote:Just wandering, have you ever heard of the Marketing mix?
Just to sum i!t up, the main problem I can identify is that the money makers are looking for the easy way to make money, rather than please the target audience and make a higher turnover that way. If you read a bit on the marketing mix you could probably catergorise every single issue into those 4 catergories (price, product, place, promotion) and I'm not kidding either.

Maybe worth looking at it if you do want to become a bit of a voice for boxing fans. (we need one)

Sounds interesting just looking it up on Wikipedia now as we speak. Boxing has always been a case of balancing long term goals with short term gain but the shortsightedness of not only boxing and promoters who you might expect to try and capatalise on the short term but the television companies and goveringing bodies really frustrates me

I would love to get involved behind the scenes to try and sort it out in some capacity I just feel there are lots of small affordable changes that could be made that would make boxing in this country 10x better!

wrimc wrote: I would love to get involved behind the scenes to try and sort it out in some capacity I just feel there are lots of small affordable changes that could be made that would make boxing in this country 10x better!

Very true about the small changes, its often the smallest things used wisely which can really improve business.
One example of how effective small things (dirty mind) can be:
Sykes turning up at a local community/charity event (I got to spar with him for a quid ) and getting himself into the local papers. Got him a massive following and now all his shows are jam packed, gets the other local guys like Tyrone Nurse and Mike Smith a following too.

Encourage boxing shows to be more a "show" - a forum of entertainment. Prizefighter is a good example, but equally, possibly have some other stuff on too as well as boxing (like they sometimes have a comedian at a dinner show etc).

Basically, anything just to encourage people to stick around (and turn up in the first place) to watch it, rather than just buying a ticket to see one fighter or going to a show just to get really drunk.

Even just an introducer/emcee type who builds up each fight. Our next fight is a local derby... Next, coming up, an unbeaten prospect.

That sort of thing.

British boxing is in good shape.
Tweak it here and there,for the most part it's close to standard.

Great points raised and really enjoyed reading your thoughts and opinions on British boxing.

The biggest need IMO is mainstream TV. ITV used to show regional boxing back in the 80's and surely that is something they could look at doing again especially as these company's now have 3 or 4 channels running daily.
I think back in the day - the London area had its version of the show while in Wales we were getting Robert Dickie and Floyd Havard fights and its an excellent way to build up a local following. Sky does a good job and Yes it could do more but the BBC and ITV really could be getting involved on a UK level.

I've always thought that fights can be put into three categories.

1. Fights that appeal solely to boxing fans.
2. Fights that interest sports fans.
3. Fights that appeal to non-sports fans.

Most fights fall into the first category, with some falling into the second. The ones that bring new fans to our sport are the third - Haye-Harrison, Benn-Eubank II etc. In reality, these fights are few and far between.

Another way that non sports fans get drawn in, is a world famous, house hold name - Ali, Tyson etc. But truly international superstars (I'm talking about fighters your mum or wife know about) come around about as often as an eclipse.

With these two things in mind, what boxing needs is new fans. We need to draw people in the same way that I was when I watched the Thriller in Manila. But what could draw people in? For my money it would be one of two things. Exposure and interest.

We are never going to get very far if 99% of all boxing is only available on Sky and Virgin. I'm not talking about ITV1 on Saturday at 8pm. What about free view channels? Challenge or ITV4 or even 5.

As with all business's, what we need is a marketable product. I'm not talking about big names getting in the ring with each other. I'm talking about the package, a marketable package that will interest people. Look at how successful The Contender was and how it was marketed. I'm not saying we should copy The Contender, I'm merely highlighting the fact that if the product is marketed correctly, then it can be a success.

We need to strip things back to the basics. What MUST the product have? Two fighters, a ring and the necessary officials. With those basics in mind, how can we market the product in a way that will bring in new fans? What we need is entertainment, so I suggest one of the following.
The Contender proves that the show does not have to be broadcast live to be a success, so lets play around with that idea. I suggest a show made to look like an underground fight club. Where fighters are ‘plucked’ from the crowd and compete in a dark dusky gym, with minimal hype and razzmatazz. Because it’s not live, we can edit the action for maximum effect.

The other option would be a reality television show, where we get to know the fighters and their lives. With the boxing action being at the end of the show. Obviously this has been done before, but if it has it’s own identity and plays on the heart strings enough, then it could be a success. The overall winner, could be given a British title.

If anyone is going to be drawn into boxing, the same way I was, then we need something to draw them in.

Well the things that i would like to see improve which in my eyes would make a difference are:

Fight Contracts - Would like the governing bodies to set a standard of what can and can't go into a contract. Prime example being how do the Klits get away with clauses that stipulate that if they lose, the fighter has to fight his brother followed by a rematch with the defeated K bro. Its ludicrous....

Pull outs - I think also the governing bodies need to take a closer look at the amount of pull outs that occur in modern boxing. Whether this means fines being dished out, or a claim of an injury being looked at by an official employed by the governing bodies then i don't know.

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=135676

British boxing needs something like this, why is white collar boxing taking off? Because people want to see well matched bouts where there is a chance of either fighter winning - skills and ability be damned. British boxing seems to be in a dire need of this. I hope to God it takes off in Victoria in Australia and maybe it can catch on here.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Another way that non sports fans get drawn in, is a world famous, house hold name - Ali, Tyson etc. But truly international superstars (I'm talking about fighters your mum or wife know about) come around about as often as an eclipse.

Didn't used to be like that, Keith.

As a kid my nan and mum weren't sports fans but they knew Alan Minter, Barry McGuigan, Frank Bruno, Joe Bugner and Lloyd Honeyghan... and later Benn and Eubank.

My mum couldn't name a single boxer now...and if she could it would be Audley Harrison or Amir Khan because their careers were publicised early on.

Ezzard wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Another way that non sports fans get drawn in, is a world famous, house hold name - Ali, Tyson etc. But truly international superstars (I'm talking about fighters your mum or wife know about) come around about as often as an eclipse.

Didn't used to be like that, Keith.

As a kid my nan and mum weren't sports fans but they knew Alan Minter, Barry McGuigan, Frank Bruno, Joe Bugner and Lloyd Honeyghan... and later Benn and Eubank.

My mum couldn't name a single boxer now...and if she could it would be Audley Harrison or Amir Khan because their careers were publicised early on.

I hear what you're sayintg Ezzard and I agree. I was talking about an International superstar, some one that was the most famous man on the planet, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Ali and Tyson.

I do agree with you though mate. We need more British household names. What do think to my ideas?

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Ezzard wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Another way that non sports fans get drawn in, is a world famous, house hold name - Ali, Tyson etc. But truly international superstars (I'm talking about fighters your mum or wife know about) come around about as often as an eclipse.

Didn't used to be like that, Keith.

As a kid my nan and mum weren't sports fans but they knew Alan Minter, Barry McGuigan, Frank Bruno, Joe Bugner and Lloyd Honeyghan... and later Benn and Eubank.

My mum couldn't name a single boxer now...and if she could it would be Audley Harrison or Amir Khan because their careers were publicised early on.

I hear what you're sayintg Ezzard and I agree. I was talking about an International superstar, some one that was the most famous man on the planet, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Ali and Tyson.

I do agree with you though mate. We need more British household names. What do think to my ideas?

I agree with the principle that it’s the personalities that bring the none devoted fans to the sport. Anyone posting on a forum like this knows something of the sport. But it’s the other fans we want in order to make it great again.

I’d like to see the sport back on mainstream TV. I’d like boxers to behave like gents (most do to be fair). They should aim at being the antidote to the d1ck heads who play in the premiership.

Other than that we want rivalries to match the old ones with rematches etc…

I’d definitely watch your TV show.

Ezzard wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Ezzard wrote: Didn't used to be like that, Keith.

As a kid my nan and mum weren't sports fans but they knew Alan Minter, Barry McGuigan, Frank Bruno, Joe Bugner and Lloyd Honeyghan... and later Benn and Eubank.

My mum couldn't name a single boxer now...and if she could it would be Audley Harrison or Amir Khan because their careers were publicised early on.

I hear what you're sayintg Ezzard and I agree. I was talking about an International superstar, some one that was the most famous man on the planet, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Ali and Tyson.

I do agree with you though mate. We need more British household names. What do think to my ideas?

I agree with the principle that it’s the personalities that bring the none devoted fans to the sport. Anyone posting on a forum like this knows something of the sport. But it’s the other fans we want in order to make it great again.

I’d like to see the sport back on mainstream TV. I’d like boxers to behave like gents (most do to be fair). They should aim at being the antidote to the d1ck heads who play in the premiership.

Other than that we want rivalries to match the old ones with rematches etc…

I’d definitely watch your TV show.

i think its important that British boxing changes it image.
The stereotypical view of boxing is that it is a murky business generally occupied by thugs and its a brutal and violent sport where fights break out in the crowd and boxers end up in prison.

I think if we are going to ge tthe big networks involved again we really need a rebrand boxing in the UK needs to become user friendly again people don't want mismatches people have a general scepticism about boxing and its ability to deliver as an entertaining event especially after Audley Haye. We need boxers to be beacons of hope and to set a standard that people should want to aspire to. It is their qualities of determination dedication bravery victory in the face of adversity in the ring and out of it that should be celebrated not the the negative side which is so often perpetuated by the media