BoxRec

Take a close look....Vitali's opponent is coming in, and from what appears to be a rather harmless moment, Vitali's opponent is hit high near the temple and is separated from his senses. Now the clown that is facing Vitali is out of shape and apparently sprains his uterus and can not continue, whereas Liston didn't hurt himself in the fall and could have continued. But both were on queazy street for long enough to end the fight.

The similarities are there.

Neither were legitimate knockouts . . .

please be specific in your definition of "legitimate". Just curious on your take.

.....please be specific in your definition of "uterus." just curious on your take.

Not so similar in my opinion. Liston suffered a flash knockdown at best, he could have bounced right back up had he wanted to. Solis struggled to get up, his legs were gone.

Solis actually tore ligaments, which isn't VK's vault in any way. Liston most likely took a dive because he knew he was going to lose and then momentarily reconsidered his decision.

Seamus wrote:Solis actually tore ligaments, which isn't VK's vault in any way. Liston most likely took a dive because he knew he was going to lose and then momentarily reconsidered his decision.

He didn't really reconsider but Walcott made such a mess of the count that he finally just had to get up.

Seamus, I agree they were both "flash" AND both guys were rattled pretty well for a bit. It happens to the best (Liston) and the rest (Solis) Solis was just so out of shape he hurt himself on the trip to the deck.

BoxBuzz wrote:please be specific in your definition of "legitimate". Just curious on your take.

Good Question!....

That would be the organ located in a woman's lower abdomen between the bladder and the rectum

,,,i'll be damned...so that's where it is!!

in the Clay/Liston rematch. Liston took a dive, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind on that. Why he took a dive? I don't know although there are several theories ranging from.

1. He had heard he or Ali may be assasinated and he just wanted to get the hell out of there before any gunfire

2. A favor to the Mafia

3. He just didn't want to get beat up again by Ali

Solis's TKO loss was a more legit loss though, I don't doubt his injury was legit. There was nothing wrong with Liston at all, he just took one of the most unconvincing dives in the history of boxing that's all.

It's pretty well established that Liston took a dive.

Had there ever been a heavyweight title fight or a fight for one of the belts before,
were one could not continue because of a leg or ankle injury?
I can think of several non-title fights were it has happened

Oleg Maskaev vs Derrick Jefferson
Jameel McCline vs Michael Grant
and of course
Jack Dempsey vs Fred Fulton

Liston was definately hurt by that punch
(look at the photograph on the cover of the book THE DEVIL AND SONNY LISTON by Nick Toushes,
Liston's face is contorted in pain)however imop Liston did recover enough to get up and continue,
but by that time the fight was called off,
I think he stayed on the canvas till the ruckus was over because he knew were the fight was heading,just like the previous time
and wanted to be counted out,except Jersey Joe Walcott was taking a lot of time to do it.

BoxBuzz wrote:Take a close look....Vitali's opponent is coming in, and from what appears to be a rather harmless moment, Vitali's opponent is hit high near the temple and is separated from his senses. Now the clown that is facing Vitali is out of shape and apparently sprains his uterus and can not continue, whereas Liston didn't hurt himself in the fall and could have continued. But both were on queazy street for long enough to end the fight.

The similarities are there.

Difficult to tell how much that punch really hurt Solis,but if u watch closely Vitali Klitschko immediately saw its affect after it landed
and came forward,as Solis went backwards.

Brutu wrote:Had there ever been a heavyweight title fight or a fight for one of the belts before,
were one could not continue because of a leg or ankle injury?
I can think of several non-title fights were it has happened

Oleg Maskaev vs Derrick Jefferson
Jameel McCline vs Michael Grant
and of course
Jack Dempsey vs Fred Fulton

? The reports I've read never mentioned Fulton having any leg injury . .in fact, Fulton even released a statement afterwards saying Jack had 'double-crossed' him and that they'd arranged to fight till the final bell. I think Fred just got KTFO . . .

As far as the Dempsey-Fulton,knock-out.
For some reason I seem to remember reading that back the late 1970's that Dempsey had hit Fulton so hard it broke Fulton's ankle.
Maybe Im mistaken and it had been someone else but that is what I remember.

McCline vs Grant(2001)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhGReqwjzTs

Actually there had been a previous( and undisputed)Heavyweight championship title fight were one of the fighters had
suffered a chipped right ankle bone and a torn leg ligament from having been knocked down, but despite it he still fought on.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk-7ic9OCKY

...baer hit carnera so hard with his first right hand that carnera twisted his ankle as he was knocked down...it affected him for the rest of the fight but he didn't quit.

jaclem2 wrote:...baer hit carnera so hard with his first right hand that carnera twisted his ankle as he was knocked down...it affected him for the rest of the fight but he didn't quit.

Yeah,Im kind of tired of hearing over the past 35 years of the boxing experts,historians and revisionists refer to Primo Carnera as a "bum".
He always looked good in all of the film I have seen of him fighting(which only a few could see for themselves in the 1960's and 1970's.
IMOP Carnea would have definatetly been a title belt holder anytime between 1978-2011.
IMOP Primo Carnera was no Bum.The people who try and say he was are the real bums!(i.e having newspapers pay for their free meals
at upscale resturants etc)

Brutu wrote:

jaclem2 wrote:...baer hit carnera so hard with his first right hand that carnera twisted his ankle as he was knocked down...it affected him for the rest of the fight but he didn't quit.

Yeah,Im kind of tired of hearing over the past 35 years of the boxing experts,historians and revisionists refer to Primo Carnera as a "bum".
He always looked good in all of the film I have seen of him fighting(which only a few could see for themselves in the 1960's and 1970's.
IMOP Carnea would have definatetly been a title belt holder anytime between 1978-2011.
IMOP Primo Carnera was no Bum.The people who try and say he was are the real bums!(i.e having newspapers pay for their free meals
at upscale resturants etc)

Carnera may not have been a total bum but he was very far from a great fighter. A title belt holder anytime between 1978-2011? You have got to be kidding, do you see him beating Holmes, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield, Lewis, or the Klitschko brothers? I'd make him even money vs. Neon Leon but that's about it.

hhaehre wrote:

Brutu wrote:

jaclem2 wrote:...baer hit carnera so hard with his first right hand that carnera twisted his ankle as he was knocked down...it affected him for the rest of the fight but he didn't quit.

Yeah,Im kind of tired of hearing over the past 35 years of the boxing experts,historians and revisionists refer to Primo Carnera as a "bum".
He always looked good in all of the film I have seen of him fighting(which only a few could see for themselves in the 1960's and 1970's.
IMOP Carnea would have definatetly been a title belt holder anytime between 1978-2011.
IMOP Primo Carnera was no Bum.The people who try and say he was are the real bums!(i.e having newspapers pay for their free meals
at upscale resturants etc)

Carnera may not have been a total bum but he was very far from a great fighter. A title belt holder anytime between 1978-2011? You have got to be kidding, do you see him beating Holmes, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield, Lewis, or the Klitschko brothers? I'd make him even money vs. Neon Leon but that's about it.

I never said Carnera was a "great" fighter.
Does that mean if you are not a GREAT fighter that otherwise makes u a bum to be?
"a World heavyweight belt holder",from 1977-2011, I did not say necessarly one of the top belt holders of the various"world" heavyweight champions since 1977 .
Primo Carnera vs Ernie Terell for Ali's stripped belt in 1967,who wins?

Brutu wrote:

hhaehre wrote:

Brutu wrote:Yeah,Im kind of tired of hearing over the past 35 years of the boxing experts,historians and revisionists refer to Primo Carnera as a "bum".
He always looked good in all of the film I have seen of him fighting(which only a few could see for themselves in the 1960's and 1970's.
IMOP Carnea would have definatetly been a title belt holder anytime between 1978-2011.
IMOP Primo Carnera was no Bum.The people who try and say he was are the real bums!(i.e having newspapers pay for their free meals
at upscale resturants etc)

Carnera may not have been a total bum but he was very far from a great fighter. A title belt holder anytime between 1978-2011? You have got to be kidding, do you see him beating Holmes, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield, Lewis, or the Klitschko brothers? I'd make him even money vs. Neon Leon but that's about it.

I never said Carnera was a "great" fighter.
Does that mean if you are not a GREAT fighter that otherwise makes u a bum to be?
"a World heavyweight belt holder",from 1977-2011, I did not say necessarly one of the top belt holders of the various"world" heavyweight champions since 1977 .
Primo Carnera vs Ernie Terell for Ali's stripped belt in 1967,who wins?

I'd pick Terrell 10 out of 10 times vs. Carnera. In my opinion you'd be hard pressed to find a significantly weaker champion than Primo.