BoxRec

http://news.boxrec.com/news/2011/angelo ... -proud-him

Still hyping at the age of 89

All time great ? I hate to disagree with Angelo Dundee but if he bows out after his next 2 fights he will only have faught at heavyweight 6 times,

Deano s wrote:All time great ? I hate to disagree with Angelo Dundee but if he bows out after his next 2 fights he will only have faught at heavyweight 6 times,

7 times

Andypittcov wrote:

Deano s wrote:All time great ? I hate to disagree with Angelo Dundee but if he bows out after his next 2 fights he will only have faught at heavyweight 6 times,

7 times

ooops lol

But if he beats both Klits then retires, where does he rank?

Deadendgeneration wrote:But if he beats both Klits then retires, where does he rank?

Behind Lennox Lewis.

Andypittcov wrote:

Deadendgeneration wrote:But if he beats both Klits then retires, where does he rank?

Behind Lennox Lewis.

I think he sneaks into the top twenty. Beating both Klitschkos is a massive achiement,

Andypittcov wrote:

Deadendgeneration wrote:But if he beats both Klits then retires, where does he rank?

Behind Lennox Lewis.

Fine but Lewis is clearly an all-time great heavyweight.

The Klit brothers are probably top 20 so if we to beat both of them....

Deadendgeneration wrote:

Andypittcov wrote:

Deadendgeneration wrote:But if he beats both Klits then retires, where does he rank?

Behind Lennox Lewis.

Fine but Lewis is clearly an all-time great heavyweight.

The Klit brothers are probably top 20 so if we to beat both of them....

Vitali is clearly at the tail end of his career. How many years ago was it that he demolished Hide and gave Lewis hell?
The other brother - i not gonna attempt to spell it - is closer to his prime. But will always be remembered as chinny.
So i don't think by beating the brothers at this time makes Haye a future heavyweight great.

if he beats both brothers and then faces and beats the leading contenders for the next 2-3years ... Then maybe.

To digress a little, I watched Tyson v Pinklon Thomas last night.
Angelo's raving rant at the doctor at the end of round one was legendary, had me in stitches

witherspoon wrote:To digress a little, I watched Tyson v Pinklon Thomas last night.
Angelo's raving rant at the doctor at the end of round one was legendary, had me in stitches

I remember that. Angelo is a true legend of the sport. His book is a fantasic read.

tonyevs wrote:

Deadendgeneration wrote:

Andypittcov wrote: Behind Lennox Lewis.

Fine but Lewis is clearly an all-time great heavyweight.

The Klit brothers are probably top 20 so if we to beat both of them....

Vitali is clearly at the tail end of his career. How many years ago was it that he demolished Hide and gave Lewis hell?
The other brother - i not gonna attempt to spell it - is closer to his prime. But will always be remembered as chinny.
So i don't think by beating the brothers at this time makes Haye a future heavyweight great.

if he beats both brothers and then faces and beats the leading contenders for the next 2-3years ... Then maybe.

My thoughts exactly

Deano s wrote:

tonyevs wrote:

Deadendgeneration wrote:
Fine but Lewis is clearly an all-time great heavyweight.

The Klit brothers are probably top 20 so if we to beat both of them....

Vitali is clearly at the tail end of his career. How many years ago was it that he demolished Hide and gave Lewis hell?
The other brother - i not gonna attempt to spell it - is closer to his prime. But will always be remembered as chinny.
So i don't think by beating the brothers at this time makes Haye a future heavyweight great.

if he beats both brothers and then faces and beats the leading contenders for the next 2-3years ... Then maybe.

Just out of interest, which heavyweights from boxing history would you class as 'great'

It is very tough to name 20 greater heavyweight champions of the gloved era than the two Klitschko's. I mean champions, if you include fighters who never won the title then maybe you can find twenty. In no order.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Lewis
Holyfield
Dempsey
Marciano
Johnson
Foreman
Tyson
Frazier
Patterson
Liston
Jeffries
Corbett
Fitz

Really from then on your clutching a bit at straws IMO. Burns? Witherspoon? Bowe? Willard? Baer? Schmeling? - Really all worse than either Klit?

That's a really good point. Stu. The heavyweight division, despite being the blue riband, has always had periods where there was a real dearth of talent (this being probably the longest) and any really good fighter has dominated, and dominated for a long time.

That's why the seventies and the nineties were so brilliant and stand out as the greatest post-war eras: they were actually competitive with more than one great fighter.

stujones wrote:It is very tough to name 20 greater heavyweight champions of the gloved era than the two Klitschko's. I mean champions, if you include fighters who never won the title then maybe you can find twenty. In no order.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Lewis
Holyfield
Dempsey
Marciano
Johnson
Foreman
Tyson
Frazier
Patterson
Liston
Jeffries
Corbett
Fitz

Really from then on your clutching a bit at straws IMO. Burns? Witherspoon? Bowe? Willard? Baer? Schmeling? - Really all worse than either Klit?

Charles and Tunney are worth consideration.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

stujones wrote:It is very tough to name 20 greater heavyweight champions of the gloved era than the two Klitschko's. I mean champions, if you include fighters who never won the title then maybe you can find twenty. In no order.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Lewis
Holyfield
Dempsey
Marciano
Johnson
Foreman
Tyson
Frazier
Patterson
Liston
Jeffries
Corbett
Fitz

Really from then on your clutching a bit at straws IMO. Burns? Witherspoon? Bowe? Willard? Baer? Schmeling? - Really all worse than either Klit?

Charles and Tunney are worth consideration.

Gene Tunney should definitely be there. Charles was more of a light heavyweight. He profited from the gap between Louis and Marciano. He won the title when a great many of the top men in the division were also LHWs who stepped up. Charles is an alltime great fighter, and would be pound for pound higher than a lot of that HW list above, but not as a heavyweight, I think.

Carbo wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

stujones wrote:It is very tough to name 20 greater heavyweight champions of the gloved era than the two Klitschko's. I mean champions, if you include fighters who never won the title then maybe you can find twenty. In no order.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Lewis
Holyfield
Dempsey
Marciano
Johnson
Foreman
Tyson
Frazier
Patterson
Liston
Jeffries
Corbett
Fitz

Really from then on your clutching a bit at straws IMO. Burns? Witherspoon? Bowe? Willard? Baer? Schmeling? - Really all worse than either Klit?

Charles and Tunney are worth consideration.

Gene Tunney should definitely be there. Charles was more of a light heavyweight. He profited from the gap between Louis and Marciano. He won the title when a great many of the top men in the division were also LHWs who stepped up. Charles is an alltime great fighter, and would be pound for pound higher than a lot of that HW list above, but not as a heavyweight, I think.

I think a list of "ALL TIME GREATS", would be....

Johnson
Dempsey
Louis
Marciano
Ali
Holmes
Holyfield

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Carbo wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:
Charles and Tunney are worth consideration.

Gene Tunney should definitely be there. Charles was more of a light heavyweight. He profited from the gap between Louis and Marciano. He won the title when a great many of the top men in the division were also LHWs who stepped up. Charles is an alltime great fighter, and would be pound for pound higher than a lot of that HW list above, but not as a heavyweight, I think.

I think a list of "ALL TIME GREATS", would be....

Johnson
Dempsey
Louis
Marciano
Ali
Holmes
Holyfield

You'd definitely have to add Sullivan -- who was important as not only a dominant fighter, but the first real, recognized heavyweight champ of the world, and boxing's first superstar -- Jim Corbett and James Jeffries to the start of that list. I also think that it's extremely unfair to leave out Frazier and Foreman, as both were incredible fighters and pretty dominant champions who beat a range of great fighters during, before and after their reigns. Lennox Lewis should be there, as, probably, should Tyson (although I don't rate him as highly as many, as he reigned in a very weak time, and lost to every other great he faced). Between Marciano and Ali, I probably wouldn't include, as many would, Patterson, although there's still and argument to be made, but Liston should definitely be there.

Sorry I thought I typed in Tunney.

Liston is always rated, but only 2-2 in title fights.

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:http://news.boxrec.com/news/2011/angelo ... -proud-him

Still hyping at the age of 89

The same guy who thought the semi shot errol christie fighting sean mannion was "the best fighter he had seen in a long time"

If he beats both Klitschkos - never going to happen in a million years anyway - he's still only had 2 fights against genuinely good opposition at HW. Certainly doesn't have him breaking the top 20. It has him on a par with Frank Bruno at best.

Karl Jade wrote:If he beats both Klitschkos - never going to happen in a million years anyway - he's still only had 2 fights against genuinely good opposition at HW. Certainly doesn't have him breaking the top 20. It has him on a par with Frank Bruno at best.

BULL! Bruno beat McCall. Wins against both Klitschkos would rank him way higher than Bruno.

To me, the HW greats are guys like Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Louis, Dempsey, Lewis, etc. Even if Haye beat both brothers, I would never put him in the category of "great."