BoxRec

I'm talking about rating guys for their career as a heavyweight.

For me, definite all time greats are.

Johnson
Dempsey
Louis
Marciano
Ali
Holmes

keithmoonhangover wrote:For me, definite all time greats are.
Johnson
Dempsey
Louis
Marciano
Ali
Holmes

For me;
Ali, Louis, Marciano, Frazier, Foreman, Dempsey, Johnson, Tyson

Ali, Louis, Holmes, Holyfield, Foreman, Frazier, Lewis, Wills, Dempsey, Jeffries, Johnson, Walcott, Marciano, Liston, Tyson

I generally include anybody who could be ranked within the top 15-20 of any weight class an ATG.

Further to my OP. I wonder how we come to rate fighters as All Time Greats.

For me, an All Time Great is someone that was unbeatable in their era.

Johnson
Dempsey
Louis
Marciano
Ali
and Holmes
all qualify.

Simple for me, the fighter would be great in any era and accomplished enough that fans will remember them. Like any listing it is subjective and there is a line where an argument will ensue and be rational on both sides of the coin.

Someone like Wesley Mouzon obviously had elite talent for any era but his time was cut way short.

I probably left off a few like Jeanette & McVey that deserve inclusion. Sam was built like Tyson, very powerful looking dude.

Langford & Charles I just look at more as Light Heavies, but I should have had them too.

I think a lot of fans make it too selective of a list for my taste.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Simple for me, the fighter would be great in any era and accomplished enough that fans will remember them. Like any listing it is subjective and there is a line where an argument will ensue and be rational on both sides of the coin.

Someone like Wesley Mouzon obviously had elite talent for any era but his time was cut way short.

I probably left off a few like Jeanette & McVey that deserve inclusion. Sam was built like Tyson, very powerful looking dude.

Langford & Charles I just look at more as Light Heavies, but I should have had them too.

I think a lot of fans make it too selective of a list for my taste.

I don't know about you Saad, but I find it really hard to decide who is rated higher between Tyson, Lewis and Holyfield.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Simple for me, the fighter would be great in any era and accomplished enough that fans will remember them. Like any listing it is subjective and there is a line where an argument will ensue and be rational on both sides of the coin.

Someone like Wesley Mouzon obviously had elite talent for any era but his time was cut way short.

I probably left off a few like Jeanette & McVey that deserve inclusion. Sam was built like Tyson, very powerful looking dude.

Langford & Charles I just look at more as Light Heavies, but I should have had them too.

I think a lot of fans make it too selective of a list for my taste.

I don't know about you Saad, but I find it really hard to decide who is rated higher between Tyson, Lewis and Holyfield.

I think Evander & Lewis are comfortably ahead of Mike. Flip a coin for the other two. I side with Evander, but very closely. They are both in the 4-8 range in alltime heavies where I think any one of them fit the bill in that slot.

But all 3 of them are all time greats to me, without a doubt.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Simple for me, the fighter would be great in any era and accomplished enough that fans will remember them. Like any listing it is subjective and there is a line where an argument will ensue and be rational on both sides of the coin.

Someone like Wesley Mouzon obviously had elite talent for any era but his time was cut way short.

I probably left off a few like Jeanette & McVey that deserve inclusion. Sam was built like Tyson, very powerful looking dude.

Langford & Charles I just look at more as Light Heavies, but I should have had them too.

I think a lot of fans make it too selective of a list for my taste.

I don't know about you Saad, but I find it really hard to decide who is rated higher between Tyson, Lewis and Holyfield.

I think Evander & Lewis are comfortably ahead of Mike. Flip a coin for the other two. I side with Evander, but very closely. They are both in the 4-8 range in alltime heavies where I think any one of them fit the bill in that slot.

But all 3 of them are all time greats to me, without a doubt.

I must admit Tyson's preformances against Holmes and Spinks, were very impressive. Hand on heart, I always thought Holyfield would beat Tyson - although most people thought I was crazy at the time.

I'm not sure about Lewis and Holyfield belonging in the top 4-8. But hey, it's not an exact science.

I was just speaking for my own rankings. It's possible for them to be outside of the top 10. But I really can't see where Tyson rates over either of them wherever you're putting the trio.

Ali, Louis, Jeffries,Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney,Marciano, Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Holmes, Holyfield, Lewis,and Tyson.

Johnson
Dempsey
Louis
Marciano
Liston
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Tyson
Holyfield
Lewis

Johnson
Louis
Dempsey
Ali
Frazier
Holmes
Lewis
Marciano
Foreman

Jeffries
Johnson
Dempsey
Louis
Marciano
Liston
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Tyson
Holyfield
Lewis

Jackson
Corbett
Jeffries
Johnson
Langford
Jeanette
Wills
Dempsey
Tunney
Schmeling
Louis
Charles
Walcott
Marciano
Liston
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Tyson
Holyfield
Lewis

dempseyfire wrote:I generally include anybody who could be ranked within the top 15-20 of any weight class an ATG.

That sounds about right. Assuming that you are only counting the traditional 8 weight classes. (ie, there has not been 15 ATG Jr Bantamweights for example.) There are probably only a handful of others who fought the majority of their career at one of the Jr weight classes.

Of course there are always some guys who are on the bubble; but I guess if only count the guys you have no question about, there are only about 14 heavyweights.

Above posters made 2 separate, but equally interesting interpretations of what constitutes an All Time Great.

dempseyfire wrote:I generally include anybody who could be ranked within the top 15-20 of any weight class an ATG.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Simple for me, the fighter would be great in any era and accomplished enough that fans will remember them.

Originally I had said these eight boxers:

Crease wrote:For me;
Ali, Louis, Marciano, Frazier, Foreman, Dempsey, Johnson, Tyson

But using both of the above criteria, I am going to inculde a few more Heavyweight Champs.

Sonny Liston, Jersey Joe Walcott, Max Schmeling, Gene Tunney, Ezzard Charles.

No one wanna mention Ike Ibeabuchi? C'mon...I know some of you want to

I think Walcott, Schmeling, and Charles are a level below most of those mentioned. If you have to count others who were in this class. That would include fighters like Corbett, Fitzsimmons,Langford, Wills, Jeannette, McVey, Sharkey, Baer, Patterson, Norton and Bowe.

Where do you draw the line is the tough question.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:No one wanna mention Ike Ibeabuchi? C'mon...I know some of you want to

The Pavlik bait in the other thread and now this...Getting soft G.I., your Tony Montana will come.

If you manage a draw (official or moral) with a great fighter on just one night of your career then for that one night you were great. You could raise your game enough to be stand alongside a great of the sport.

If Schmeling can beat Louis and Walcott lose a hotly disputed decision to Louis then they must be greats, as The Borwn Bomber was as good a heavyweight as there ever was. Okay, not as great as Joe Louis but then few were...

Walcott was a more accomplished Heavyweight than Tunney from my seat.

dr_devious wrote:Johnson
Dempsey
Louis
Marciano
Liston
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Tyson
Holyfield
Lewis

i'd have this list but with Gene Tunney, Big John L & V. Klit in there to complete the set

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Walcott was a more accomplished Heavyweight than Tunney from my seat.

Behave man! Tunney virtually invented scientific boxing....

Go & wobble your head & shake a bit of sense into it!

Kilsby wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Walcott was a more accomplished Heavyweight than Tunney from my seat.

Behave man! Tunney virtually invented scientific boxing....

Go & wobble your head & shake a bit of sense into it!

One of the greatest Light Heavyweights in history, he is one of the greatest fighters in history. But he is overrated at heavyweight.

You're on Boxrec, go study his record and learn something that way. Shaking your head wont do it kid.