BoxRec

Who do you think it is?

I am going to go for Lennox Lewis.

I think he was massively overrated. His best wins were a m,arginal victory against Holyfield and a non-fight against a bloated, -over-the-hill Tyson.

I always hesitate to put Lewis in my top 10.

Mike Tyson and Rocky Marciano.

I don't think Lewis is overrated at all--for me he is clearly a top ten HW.

I think Liston and Shavers get overrated.

BarryWashington wrote:cant agree with lewis being "overrated" i dont really like using that word but ill say the guy who gets the most unnecessary praise (amongst the average joe) is tyson and amongst the hardcore fans im not sure.

Tyson dominated the Heavyweight division in a way which Lewis never could.

"Iron Mike" looked invincible once upon a time. Wheras I always thought that Lewis looked vulnerable and susceptible to a loss at any given time.
(Check the Rahman fight).

Tyson (by his rabid supporters), Ali, & Shavers are good choices.

Of course, to me, Ibeabuchi (who did not accomplish one jot of what the above men did) takes the cake --- no one to challenge him. I love the way half the people propping him up never have a nice word to say about Tua or Byrd (& quite often, downplay these guys) until Ibeabuchi's name comes up

pudendum did fvck-all & is still getting talked about more than a decade on.

Jack Johnson

Seamus wrote:Jack Johnson

Yup.

Crease wrote:Who do you think it is?

I am going to go for Lennox Lewis.

I think he was massively overrated. His best wins were a m,arginal victory against Holyfield and a non-fight against a bloated, -over-the-hill Tyson.

I always hesitate to put Lewis in my top 10.

Muhammad Ali

Crease wrote: "Iron Mike" looked invincible once upon a time.

This is why I'd vote Tyson. he was a great fighter but looking invincible isn't the same as being invincible and many people seem to forget this.

Marciano for me is overrated. I know it is blasphemy to say this because of the reverence shown towards Rocky today. Yeah he hit hard, was rough and tough and was unbeaten but he his held in too high esteem because of that "0". If Walcott and Moore could put him over what would Foreman, Lewis and even Shavers do to him? His championship reign does not compare with other great champions.

The current fans with the Klitschko's is a runaway leader. These guys are so overrated that their lackeys find it reasonable to combine their resumes.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:The current fans with the Klitschko's is a runaway leader. These guys are so overrated that their lackeys find it reasonable to combine their resumes.

Thats true about the linked resumes and its rubbish.

Ketchel wrote:Marciano for me is overrated. I know it is blasphemy to say this because of the reverence shown towards Rocky today. Yeah he hit hard, was rough and tough and was unbeaten but he his held in too high esteem because of that "0". If Walcott and Moore could put him over what would Foreman, Lewis and even Shavers do to him? His championship reign does not compare with other great champions.

I see it differently. I would wager pretty close to 90% of what I see written on Marciano is intended to shoot down him and his record. To me, Marciano is anything but over-rated.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ketchel wrote:Marciano for me is overrated. I know it is blasphemy to say this because of the reverence shown towards Rocky today. Yeah he hit hard, was rough and tough and was unbeaten but he his held in too high esteem because of that "0". If Walcott and Moore could put him over what would Foreman, Lewis and even Shavers do to him? His championship reign does not compare with other great champions.

I see it differently. I would wager pretty close to 90% of what I see written on Marciano is intended to shoot down him and his record. To me, Marciano is anything but over-rated.

Agree, the days of Marciano being overrated are gone.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Tyson (by his rabid supporters), Ali, & Shavers are good choices.

Of course, to me, Ibeabuchi (who did not accomplish one jot of what the above men did) takes the cake --- no one to challenge him. I love the way half the people propping him up never have a nice word to say about Tua or Byrd (& quite often, downplay these guys) until Ibeabuchi's name comes up

pudendum did fvck-all & is still getting talked about more than a decade on.

I think you've nailed it.

Ikemelfa is hugely overrated.

If he had done something, I'd half understand some of the praise he gets, but like you say, he did nothing.

OK, I accept he was a decent contender, & who knows what he could have achieved, but with Ibeabuchi, it's all about 'what if' & you can't base a legend on 'what if', it has to be based on what he actually did.

In a perverse way, it's lucky he was locked up when he was, because his 'legend & mystique' is forever preserved in a bubble of 1999.

Crease wrote:Who do you think it is?

I am going to go for Lennox Lewis.

I think he was massively overrated. His best wins were a m,arginal victory against Holyfield and a non-fight against a bloated, -over-the-hill Tyson.

I always hesitate to put Lewis in my top 10.

Who do you rate above him?

I'm going to base my opinion on the Box Rec Top Ten.

1 Muhammad Ali 1976 56(37)-5(1)-0
1960-1981 orthodox Louisville, Kentucky, United States
2 Joe Louis 1870 66(52)-3(2)-0
1934-1951 orthodox Detroit, Michigan, United States
3 Sam Langford 1615 178(129)-32(9)-40
1902-1926 orthodox Boston, Massachusetts, United States
4 Ezzard Charles 1603 93(52)-25(7)-1
1940-1959 orthodox Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
5 Rocky Marciano 1403 49(43)-0(0)-0
1947-1955 orthodox Brockton, Massachusetts, United States
6 Floyd Patterson 1330 55(40)-8(5)-1
1952-1972 orthodox Brooklyn, New York, United States
7 Harry Wills 1295 68(54)-9(5)-3
1911-1932 orthodox New Orleans, Louisiana, United States
8 Larry Holmes 1174 69(44)-6(1)-0
1973-2002 orthodox Easton, Pennsylvania, United States
9 Max Schmeling 1170 56(40)-10(5)-4
1924-1948 orthodox Brandenburg, Germany
10 Gene Tunney 1153 66(48)-1(0)-1
1915-1928 orthodox Greenwich, Connecticut, United States

Langford, Patterson, Wills and Schmeling do not belong in the top ten at heavyweight.

Ezzard wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ketchel wrote:Marciano for me is overrated. I know it is blasphemy to say this because of the reverence shown towards Rocky today. Yeah he hit hard, was rough and tough and was unbeaten but he his held in too high esteem because of that "0". If Walcott and Moore could put him over what would Foreman, Lewis and even Shavers do to him? His championship reign does not compare with other great champions.

I see it differently. I would wager pretty close to 90% of what I see written on Marciano is intended to shoot down him and his record. To me, Marciano is anything but over-rated.

Agree, the days of Marciano being overrated are gone.

I agree, when my Dad was a young lad, Marciano was talked about as the best ever, but people NEVER talk about him that way any more. I do think beating Charles and Walcott twice is a big achievement and also beating Moore is perhaps his best fight, considering they both weighed the same.

Lewis is just outside the top 10 for me, a great fighter but with some notable flaws who excelled in a relatively weak era (which in retrospect seems stronger than it was b/c today's division is absolute garbage)

I've come to appreciate Marciano with time. The guy had much better defense than given credit for and people always harp on his opposition and while certainly not up there with the very best of the best, it's certainly respectable. For example, people harp on his win over "old light heavyweight" Archie Moore but either forget or are ignorant of the fact that Moore beat a slew of big, athletic heavyweights to get to his # position. The guy could kick serious ass and a 188 lb Moore would embarass any HW not named Klitschko today. Hell, I wouldn't even count him out vs Wladimir at all . . he'd certainly be more dangerous than Haye is.

I think Lewis is overrated by some, but in general I don't think he is overrated. His resume alone puts him in the top 12 at the very least, although I have him in the lower half of my top 10.

Same goes for Tyson, he was hugely overrated but most on this forum have him.

Ali is a good shout. I have him as #1 just ahead of Louis, based largely on his amazing resume. However, much of the general public see him as being some kind of godlike figure, completely invincible, when he was actually one of the most flawed heavyweight champions ever.

Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey are also often overrated in my opinion.

keithmoonhangover wrote:I'm going to base my opinion on the Box Rec Top Ten.

1 Muhammad Ali 1976 56(37)-5(1)-0
1960-1981 orthodox Louisville, Kentucky, United States
2 Joe Louis 1870 66(52)-3(2)-0
1934-1951 orthodox Detroit, Michigan, United States
3 Sam Langford 1615 178(129)-32(9)-40
1902-1926 orthodox Boston, Massachusetts, United States
4 Ezzard Charles 1603 93(52)-25(7)-1
1940-1959 orthodox Cincinnati, Ohio, United States
5 Rocky Marciano 1403 49(43)-0(0)-0
1947-1955 orthodox Brockton, Massachusetts, United States
6 Floyd Patterson 1330 55(40)-8(5)-1
1952-1972 orthodox Brooklyn, New York, United States
7 Harry Wills 1295 68(54)-9(5)-3
1911-1932 orthodox New Orleans, Louisiana, United States
8 Larry Holmes 1174 69(44)-6(1)-0
1973-2002 orthodox Easton, Pennsylvania, United States
9 Max Schmeling 1170 56(40)-10(5)-4
1924-1948 orthodox Brandenburg, Germany
10 Gene Tunney 1153 66(48)-1(0)-1
1915-1928 orthodox Greenwich, Connecticut, United States

Langford, Patterson, Wills and Schmeling do not belong in the top ten at heavyweight.

I would argue that only Ali, Louis, Marciano and Holmes belong in the top 10 out of that list.

Great post about Archie Moore, DempseyFire. I once totaled Archie Moore's numbers and he posted an amazing 65-3-2 record in the heavyweight division. His record against men above 200lb was a staggering 22-1 with 19 kayos.

Archie is one of the all time "giant" killers. Ask Bob Baker and Nino Valdes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi66CQ_ivDg

I read some old copies of The Ring recently and they were actively campaigning for Marciano to fight Moore as they felt he was a real threat for the title (and he was).

If that fight were being made now it would be considered a Super-Fight.

Ezzard wrote:I read some old copies of The Ring recently and they were actively campaigning for Marciano to fight Moore as they felt he was a real threat for the title (and he was).

If that fight were being made now it would be considered a Super-Fight.

Amen to that Ezzard. Moore was only fighting 13 pounds over Light Heavy and proved to be Marciano's match early on. Rocky was a much better fighter than people make out.

As you probably know, Marciano started training for a comeback fight against Ingemar Johansson, I wonder how that fight would have gone?

Crease wrote:Who do you think it is?

I am going to go for Lennox Lewis.

I think he was massively overrated. His best wins were a m,arginal victory against Holyfield and a non-fight against a bloated, -over-the-hill Tyson.

I always hesitate to put Lewis in my top 10.

Personally I think a prime, fit and focused Lewis could beat just about any fighter you care to name.

Controversial wrote:

Crease wrote:Who do you think it is?

I am going to go for Lennox Lewis.

I think he was massively overrated. His best wins were a m,arginal victory against Holyfield and a non-fight against a bloated, -over-the-hill Tyson.

I always hesitate to put Lewis in my top 10.

Personally I think a prime, fit and focused Lewis could beat just about any fighter you care to name.

How would he do against a prime, focused and fit McCall?