BoxRec

Biased refs ruining boxing.

Terry carruthers went up to liverpool to rematch Ste Harkin i wish we hadnt bothered .After a good fight were Harkin came with a lot of ambition and bottle terry looked to have taken the verdict quite handily.

Just my opinion i hear you ask, well no. boxing news had 5.1 in rounds.a local liverpool reporter had it 6.0,sky tv told me they had it 4.2 after giving anything close to the home lad. Respected fight figures Dean Powell and Jimmy gill had carruthers winning widely.The a star refs at ringside all had terry winning well.Boxrec poster and scouse lad Neil Hibbert had him winning well.Chris smedley father of Nicky stopped me to say how bad the verdict was this went on all around ringside.

The only person who thought it wasnt a draw was the ref Mark Lyson who amazingley is from liverpool.This kind of thing is making boxing look a complete joke whatit the big deal with making sure a prospect gets a result do they not realise that points loss isnt the end of the world an can actualy benefit a learning lad.

I will be putting a complaint in even tho it doesnt do a thing i will also be refusing to let any of my fighters fight if this guy is the ref again.

Nothing against Ste who a decent prospect and seems a nice lad hes not reffing hes just fighting and big respect for asking for a rematch straight away after Carruthers took his unbeaten record away last time out.

Rant almost over just hate the way petty refs are making our game look corrupt and also painting the rest of british refs who are respected world wide in a bad light.

I remember a time when a prospect called Kevin Buckley fought mo khalid on a warren bill. Khalid boxed his ears off but buckley got the verdict. Makes you sick. It's worse in the amateur game though but it's not someones livelihood there

I saw the fight from ringside and didnt score it but the general impression I got was that Carruthers won the fight. He took the fight to Harkin and had him on the back foot for a lot of the fight and was landing the cleaner shots in the exchanges.

sorry to hear that, Jon, I can only imagine how frustrated you must be mate

Nothing more frustrating than a ref in a pocket.

I know what you mean Jon, ive seen Terry fight a few times and he's never been in a dull fight and always gives 100%

One question about him, why do you think he has so many draws? maybe he deserved the win in those draws?? is it anything to do with him always being the away fighter?

...Labour and Tories and spit upon the name Oliver Cromwell.......

Boxrec report of the fight agrees with the refs score, mind you he had simpson up 116/113 No way did Smith only win 4 rounds

I think Terry has so many draws because a lot of those fights hes won but because hes not a massive puncher he outpoints and the away fighter its easy to just give a draw to keep the home crowd happy,
I saw the boxrec report and thats why i named a lot of the people i spoke too because it realy was that surprising.I could probly write down ten more well known boxing people who approached us after wards and sed how bad it was.
Only good point apart from it wasnt an outright loss was the improvment in Terry Carruthers as a fighter i do beleive with a few good wins he could turn into a right handful.
Sorry for boring the life out of people on here but it was my only outlet to people who might actualy listen lol

jonp wrote:Biased refs ruining boxing.

Terry carruthers went up to liverpool to rematch Ste Harkin i wish we hadnt bothered .After a good fight were Harkin came with a lot of ambition and bottle terry looked to have taken the verdict quite handily.

Just my opinion i hear you ask, well no. boxing news had 5.1 in rounds.a local liverpool reporter had it 6.0,sky tv told me they had it 4.2 after giving anything close to the home lad. Respected fight figures Dean Powell and Jimmy gill had carruthers winning widely.The a star refs at ringside all had terry winning well.Boxrec poster and scouse lad Neil Hibbert had him winning well.Chris smedley father of Nicky stopped me to say how bad the verdict was this went on all around ringside.

The only person who thought it wasnt a draw was the ref Mark Lyson who amazingley is from liverpool.This kind of thing is making boxing look a complete joke whatit the big deal with making sure a prospect gets a result do they not realise that points loss isnt the end of the world an can actualy benefit a learning lad.

I will be putting a complaint in even tho it doesnt do a thing i will also be refusing to let any of my fighters fight if this guy is the ref again.

Nothing against Ste who a decent prospect and seems a nice lad hes not reffing hes just fighting and big respect for asking for a rematch straight away after Carruthers took his unbeaten record away last time out.

Rant almost over just hate the way petty refs are making our game look corrupt and also painting the rest of british refs who are respected world wide in a bad light.

I thought it was a close scrappy fight, what you don`t mention, this was the same ref who gave the last fight to Carruthers when it possibly could of gone either way

Again im going on what a lot of respected fight figures went on.The first fight the boxing news and internet reporters had it wider.Did the liverpool ref get stick at home for not giving it too a local lad? who knows but a sheffield trainer has opened up a seperate thread on here mentioning it.There realy was a lot of raised eyebrows at ringside when they ref raised both arms.

Floatlikeabutterfly wrote:

jonp wrote:Biased refs ruining boxing.

Terry carruthers went up to liverpool to rematch Ste Harkin i wish we hadnt bothered .After a good fight were Harkin came with a lot of ambition and bottle terry looked to have taken the verdict quite handily.

Just my opinion i hear you ask, well no. boxing news had 5.1 in rounds.a local liverpool reporter had it 6.0,sky tv told me they had it 4.2 after giving anything close to the home lad. Respected fight figures Dean Powell and Jimmy gill had carruthers winning widely.The a star refs at ringside all had terry winning well.Boxrec poster and scouse lad Neil Hibbert had him winning well.Chris smedley father of Nicky stopped me to say how bad the verdict was this went on all around ringside.

The only person who thought it wasnt a draw was the ref Mark Lyson who amazingley is from liverpool.This kind of thing is making boxing look a complete joke whatit the big deal with making sure a prospect gets a result do they not realise that points loss isnt the end of the world an can actualy benefit a learning lad.

I will be putting a complaint in even tho it doesnt do a thing i will also be refusing to let any of my fighters fight if this guy is the ref again.

Nothing against Ste who a decent prospect and seems a nice lad hes not reffing hes just fighting and big respect for asking for a rematch straight away after Carruthers took his unbeaten record away last time out.

Rant almost over just hate the way petty refs are making our game look corrupt and also painting the rest of british refs who are respected world wide in a bad light.

I thought it was a close scrappy fight, what you don`t mention, this was the same ref who gave the last fight to Carruthers when it possibly could of gone either way

And you say the ref was biased

I think being in liverpool had a big deal on it.Last time Terry got it by a point when most neutral observers had it wider (read reports)in Wigan .This time in liverpool People had it wider it gets given a draw so i think there was bias.Who knows eh i actualy thought id maybe been watching it diffrently untill i got the feedback from a lot of people ringside.

jonp wrote:I think being in liverpool had a big deal on it.Last time Terry got it by a point when most neutral observers had it wider (read reports)in Wigan .This time in liverpool People had it wider it gets given a draw so i think there was bias.Who knows eh i actualy thought id maybe been watching it diffrently untill i got the feedback from a lot of people ringside.

jonp every man and his dog will have their own opinion mate, a ref will give his opinion and that is that. I have said it before and will sayit again, if anyone think they can do a better job write to the BBBoC offering their services.

There were two A star referees there who offered there opinion and obviously these guys can do a better job and they all sed it was way off the mark.
Im going on the opinion of guys who are better refs officially and they raised there eyebrows at the score. If refs were perfect (none of us are i know ) they wouldnt have to be disiplined by the board.You recently gave the same old line when we critisized IJL for the wayne reed affair yet IJL was severly reprimanded by the board which shows that we were right in our critisism.
And wile i understand you sticking up for the guys on yr side of the fence please dont point the finger of bias as i am quite fair and will complain or talk about anything i dont agree with ,yet you seem to have a problem with anyone asking questions regarding a refs ability to score a fight and seeing as you represent the board this actualy smacks a little more of bias.

jonp wrote:There were two A star referees there who offered there opinion and obviously these guys can do a better job and they all sed it was way off the mark.
Im going on the opinion of guys who are better refs officially and they raised there eyebrows at the score. If refs were perfect (none of us are i know ) they wouldnt have to be disiplined by the board.You recently gave the same old line when we critisized IJL for the wayne reed affair yet IJL was severly reprimanded by the board which shows that we were right in our critisism.
And wile i understand you sticking up for the guys on yr side of the fence please dont point the finger of bias as i am quite fair and will complain or talk about anything i dont agree with ,yet you seem to have a problem with anyone asking questions regarding a refs ability to score a fight and seeing as you represent the board this actualy smacks a little more of bias.

jonp all I am saying is that people will always have their opinions, you have yours and to be honest I welcome it buddy. If people see close rounds to one person than the other then you will always have scorecards that do not reflect how close a fight is. I have also said in the past that I have seen fights given that I had the other guy winning so not sure where my bias is? And for the record I do not represent anyone or anybody on here or any other forum other than MY opinions as do you, are you saying that you are entitled to an opinion on an open forum yet I am not?

Yes you are matei like seeing opinions.To be honest a lot of the time it is other people opinions that make me put the brakes on and realise i may be looking at a fight the wrong way,but when i talk at ringside and get approached such a wide variety of boxing experts and officials agreeing with me i admit it makes me a little vocal.
it was just the implication of me saying it because i was biased (this was yr first post on the matter) that kind of made me question yr response.
When you said you thought the Tony Bellew stoppage was a disgrace if some one had said write to the bbbc if you think you can do a better job, you may have thought well i can use my eyes just because im not a ref i can still see what i saw.
So when you express an opinion i will debate it but when you just tell us to write to the board to become refs, unless you applied to become a ref after the bellew fight then you shouldnt have critisized the ref in that fight.

Its not just my fighters either i complained about the scoring in the recent PF if i see something i realy dont agree with i will complain.

Anyway Martin i do enjoy the debate part its what im here for but im realy not biased towards anything apart from a fair crack of the whip.

Does the last line of the above post make me look like some kind of S/M perve

jonp wrote:Does the last line of the above post make me look like some kind of S/M perve

Yes

jonp wrote:There were two A star referees there who offered there opinion and obviously these guys can do a better job and they all sed it was way off the mark.
Im going on the opinion of guys who are better refs officially and they raised there eyebrows at the score. If refs were perfect (none of us are i know ) they wouldnt have to be disiplined by the board.You recently gave the same old line when we critisized IJL for the wayne reed affair yet IJL was severly reprimanded by the board which shows that we were right in our critisism.
And wile i understand you sticking up for the guys on yr side of the fence please dont point the finger of bias as i am quite fair and will complain or talk about anything i dont agree with ,yet you seem to have a problem with anyone asking questions regarding a refs ability to score a fight and seeing as you represent the board this actualy smacks a little more of bias.

Jon I know you were upset by this mate, but it was a scrappy fight you must admit, your guy was deffo the aggessor and had more spite in his shots, but Harkin did do some good work too, I must admit Terry looks better than his record suggests, but scoring is very subjective, as you said "you are going off the opinion of guys who are better refs officially and they raised their eyebrows at the score" I take it one of these was the ref who also got critisised for his scoring in the Smith-Simpson fight. Not wanting to take sides Jon, but I have seen much worse decisions, not saying its right tho. Good luck anyway and I am sure Terry will start getting the rub of the green.

Fair enough pal i have seen worse decisions but the annoying part is its always against the away guys so its not the fact that its just objective scoring its tailered against the away guy and that isnt right.
There have been times on my own shows where iv gone in and sympathised with an away guy and told my own fighter he didnt deserve a win.It realy is no good for boxing

jonp wrote:Fair enough pal i have seen worse decisions but the annoying part is its always against the away guys so its not the fact that its just objective scoring its tailered against the away guy and that isnt right.
There have been times on my own shows where iv gone in and sympathised with an away guy and told my own fighter he didnt deserve a win.It realy is no good for boxing

100% agree with you. It ruins everything.

jonp wrote:Fair enough pal i have seen worse decisions but the annoying part is its always against the away guys so its not the fact that its just objective scoring its tailered against the away guy and that isnt right.
There have been times on my own shows where iv gone in and sympathised with an away guy and told my own fighter he didnt deserve a win.It realy is no good for boxing

Spot on. It is never the home fighter who leaves the ring shaking his head in disbelief... always the away fighter.

Either intentionally or sub consciously refs are aware who the prospect is, who has sold the tickets, who the crowd are there to see, who the promoter is looking to build up; years ago a defeat was seen as a learning experience - these days it is viewed more like a death sentence. Hence the amount of BS decisions seen week in week out up and down the country on boxing shows.

Keep your chin up Jon and keep your lads doing what they do best - boxing to win and giving the home fighter all he can handle (and often a good bit more!)

Oh well boxing news told me what i already knew

jonp wrote:There were two A star referees there who offered there opinion and obviously these guys can do a better job and they all sed it was way off the mark.

If one of the A star refs was O'Connor we can disregard it.

Bottom line is refs should not be able to officiate fights against boys from their home city. There is every chance they have known them since the amateur days so have a soft spot.