BoxRec

in terms of achevments and overall caarer standings?

No.

Probably - very close though

dberry wrote:No.

you dont like vic very much? . I think he has surpassed kt. He has beaten better opponents and the guys he has lost to have been better than the guys kt did. Lets debate this without it getting petty. Put foreward your card for tszyu

thunderfromdownunder wrote:

dberry wrote:No.

you dont like vic very much? . I think he has surpassed kt. He has beaten better opponents and the guys he has lost to have been better than the guys kt did. Lets debate this without it getting petty. Put foreward your card for tszyu

Looking at both of their records I must say that Vic's opposition is better than I had previously given him credit for and KT's is worse than I had previously given him credit for. Considering that KT is generally viewed as a "great" or close to it, while Vic earns nowhere near this acclamation from the boxing community, you'd think there would be a larger gap in their oppostion. I would still give my vote to KT though.

Btw-at this point I am having a hard time seeing how Agbeko and Mares are better than Hatton.

donaire is better than both hatton and Phillips. Time will tell with mares, he's done well so far and agbeko is also a solid champ. I always liked hatton but his best wins were against old worn out guys (tszyu and castillio) and when he stepped up to the big guns he was totally outclassed. He was also lucky against collazo

thunderfromdownunder wrote:donaire is better than both hatton and Phillips. Time will tell with mares, he's done well so far and agbeko is also a solid champ. I always liked hatton but his best wins were against old worn out guys (tszyu and castillio) and when he stepped up to the big guns he was totally outclassed. He was also lucky against collazo

There aren't many fighters who would be competitive against Mayweather and Pacquiao. Hatton has definitely accomplished more than Agbeko and Mares so at this point it's a big stretch to say they're better than he was.

its just a very hard question to answer objectively.

it is really just much easier to say that they have both excelled fantastically and have few peers as far as accomplishments.

the fact that they have each wanted to please the fans and fight whoever is considered the better fighters at the time and not just cherry-pick, even if the best possible match-ups didn't happen.

anyone agree?

buster007 wrote:its just a very hard question to answer objectively.

it is really just much easier to say that they have both excelled fantastically and have few peers as far as accomplishments.

the fact that they have each wanted to please the fans and fight whoever is considered the better fighters at the time and not just cherry-pick, even if the best possible match-ups didn't happen.

anyone agree?

very diplomatic

crusader wrote:

thunderfromdownunder wrote:donaire is better than both hatton and Phillips. Time will tell with mares, he's done well so far and agbeko is also a solid champ. I always liked hatton but his best wins were against old worn out guys (tszyu and castillio) and when he stepped up to the big guns he was totally outclassed. He was also lucky against collazo

There aren't many fighters who would be competitive against Mayweather and Pacquiao. Hatton has definitely accomplished more than Agbeko and Mares so at this point it's a big stretch to say they're better than he was.

marquez the lightweight and and old Mosley were both more competitive with Floyd. While Cotto Margarito and even older Mosley were more competitive with pacquiao.

Cleaning up Zab Judah in two rounds was a pretty good effort by Kostya. Judah has won six World titles and currently holds the IBF light welterweight world title.
He was unbeaten in 27 fights going into the Tzsyu fight.

[quote="thunderfromdownunder"][quote="buster007"]its just a very hard question to answer objectively.

it is really just much easier to say that they have both excelled fantastically and have few peers as far as accomplishments.

the fact that they have each wanted to please the fans and fight whoever is considered the better fighters at the time and not just cherry-pick, even if the best possible match-ups didn't happen.

anyone agree?[/quote]
very diplomatic [/quote]
it is difficult. just look at pacman, people still go on about his earlier losses as if it outways all the achievements he has grabbed since.

just like they try and discredit tszyu because of the philips loss.

Brute wrote:Cleaning up Zab Judah in two rounds was a pretty good effort by Kostya. Judah has won six World titles and currently holds the IBF light welterweight world title.
He was unbeaten in 27 fights going into the Tzsyu fight.

it was a good effort. And still hilarious every time i watch it

thunderfromdownunder wrote:

crusader wrote:

thunderfromdownunder wrote:donaire is better than both hatton and Phillips. Time will tell with mares, he's done well so far and agbeko is also a solid champ. I always liked hatton but his best wins were against old worn out guys (tszyu and castillio) and when he stepped up to the big guns he was totally outclassed. He was also lucky against collazo

There aren't many fighters who would be competitive against Mayweather and Pacquiao. Hatton has definitely accomplished more than Agbeko and Mares so at this point it's a big stretch to say they're better than he was.

marquez the lightweight and and old Mosley were both more competitive with Floyd. While Cotto Margarito and even older Mosley were more competitive with pacquiao.

None of them were competitive at all though and that is a pretty special group of fighters you have listed, a few of whom are bigger than Hatton. Agbeko lost to and Mares drew with a fighter about 10 leagues below anyone Hatton lost to. Hatton has also accomplished a lot more than Agbeko and Mares.

Both Vic and KT have done great things in the ring and although I would vote for KT I really don't have a problem with ranking either one ahead of the other. If you look at their resumes there isn't a whole lot to split them.

crusader wrote:

thunderfromdownunder wrote:

dberry wrote:No.

you dont like vic very much? . I think he has surpassed kt. He has beaten better opponents and the guys he has lost to have been better than the guys kt did. Lets debate this without it getting petty. Put foreward your card for tszyu

Looking at both of their records I must say that Vic's opposition is better than I had previously given him credit for and KT's is worse than I had previously given him credit for. Considering that KT is generally viewed as a "great" or close to it, while Vic earns nowhere near this acclamation from the boxing community, you'd think there would be a larger gap in their oppostion. I would still give my vote to KT though.

Btw-at this point I am having a hard time seeing how Agbeko and Mares are better than Hatton.

Thankyou

buster007 wrote:its just a very hard question to answer objectively.

it is really just much easier to say that they have both excelled fantastically and have few peers as far as accomplishments.

the fact that they have each wanted to please the fans and fight whoever is considered the better fighters at the time and not just cherry-pick, even if the best possible match-ups didn't happen.

anyone agree?

Have to agree with Buster. You can argue all day about the quality of their opposition. In the end their is no definitave answer,it comes down to personal opinion. Like Rose V Famechon. At the moment Lionel would romp it in but for me watching Fammo was poetry in motion, hit and not be hit, what true boxing is all about.
Back to the thread.......
SKILL.....Tszyu
CHIN.....Tszyu
OPPOSITION....Tszyu
ACHIEVMENTS....Tszyu
LIKELY HALL OF FAME....Tszyu Definate.
" " ' " '' " ....Darchinian maybe. IMO.

hearns wrote:

buster007 wrote:its just a very hard question to answer objectively.

it is really just much easier to say that they have both excelled fantastically and have few peers as far as accomplishments.

the fact that they have each wanted to please the fans and fight whoever is considered the better fighters at the time and not just cherry-pick, even if the best possible match-ups didn't happen.

anyone agree?

OPPOSITION....Tszyu

strongly disagree

hearns wrote:

buster007 wrote:its just a very hard question to answer objectively.

it is really just much easier to say that they have both excelled fantastically and have few peers as far as accomplishments.

the fact that they have each wanted to please the fans and fight whoever is considered the better fighters at the time and not just cherry-pick, even if the best possible match-ups didn't happen.

anyone agree?

Have to agree with Buster. You can argue all day about the quality of their opposition. In the end their is no definitave answer,it comes down to personal opinion. Like Rose V Famechon. At the moment Lionel would romp it in but for me watching Fammo was poetry in motion, hit and not be hit, what true boxing is all about.
Back to the thread.......
SKILL.....Tszyu
CHIN.....Tszyu
OPPOSITION....Tszyu
ACHIEVMENTS....Tszyu
LIKELY HALL OF FAME....Tszyu Definate.
" " ' " '' " ....Darchinian maybe. IMO.

Tszyu is already in the Hall at Canastota.

Don't like vics trash talk (surprise) respect kostyas sportsmanship and aceivements.
However I voted yes on this but it is a 10:9 round IMO
I think vics opposition were are in their prime. And vics abilty to go up and down in divisions is in his favour

Grant wrote:Don't like vics trash talk (surprise) respect kostyas sportsmanship and aceivements.
However I voted yes on this but it is a 10:9 round IMO
I think vics opposition were are in their prime. And vics abilty to go ip and down in divisions is in his favour

What trash talk? Vic just tells the truth as he sees it.

thunderfromdownunder wrote:

hearns wrote:

buster007 wrote:its just a very hard question to answer objectively.

it is really just much easier to say that they have both excelled fantastically and have few peers as far as accomplishments.

the fact that they have each wanted to please the fans and fight whoever is considered the better fighters at the time and not just cherry-pick, even if the best possible match-ups didn't happen.

anyone agree?

OPPOSITION....Tszyu

strongly disagree

KT fought approx 13 world champions in 34 fights. Pretty stiff opposition.
The records show he fought only 1 fighter who had lost more fights than won. As i said earlier, you can debate all day about their respective opponents. Back to you.....

Haha yeah. Not saying tszyu didnt have good opposition, just vics is better. Tszyu missed out on the big superfights around his weight (Mosley, Trinidad and de la hoya) and honestly, i dont think he would have beaten any of them if they did fight. While darchinyan holes two impressive victories over two of the best little men of the modern era.

thunderfromdownunder wrote:Haha yeah. Not saying tszyu didnt have good opposition, just vics is better. Tszyu missed out on the big superfights around his weight (Mosley, Trinidad and de la hoya) and honestly, i dont think he would have beaten any of them if they did fight. While darchinyan holes two impressive victories over two of the best little men of the modern era.

OK, Lets agree to disagree ;;-) The loss to Phillips did a lot of damage to KTs appeal in the states. By the time he got on track all the big fights were at 147. Johnny Lewis swears Oscar ducked Tszyu at 140,while i respect Lewis to the max i struggle to see how a fighter like Oscar who went on to fight Whittaker,Trinidad, Mosely,Quartey etc would duck Tszyu.
I think Mosely went straight to 147, and Trinidad was always there. The onus was always on KT to move up to 147 where all the big money was. Why he did'nt only he knows for sure. Maybe he knew his limitations or maybe those fights could'nt be made. One thing for sure, KT liked money. I can't think of another Aussie fighter who was sued by his managers and handlers as many times as Tszyu.

agreed 8) yeah really cant see hoya ducking anybody. Mosley jumped straight from lightweight to welter for the big payday. Styles wise i think tszyu v Mosley would have been an amazing fight

Brute wrote:

Grant wrote:Don't like vics trash talk (surprise) respect kostyas sportsmanship and aceivements.
However I voted yes on this but it is a 10:9 round IMO
I think vics opposition were are in their prime. And vics abilty to go ip and down in divisions is in his favour

What trash talk? Vic just tells the truth as he sees it.

It's trash talk :)