BoxRec

What a great fighter he was. Not only an action fighter with a power punch but he had fun while fighting, entering the ring Tito looked like he was going to a party to celebrate. Had some great performances vs. Reid, Vargas, Oscar, Whitaker and for some rounds vs. a prime Hopkins. Many great fights. This was a star fighter with a huge fan base. Maybe Don King's last superstar. Interesting that Tito says in this interview what his finest performances were. Very nice read...

Wish he never fought Wright or Roy JOnes though, he was finished by then.

http://thebiofile.com/2011/05/biofile-w ... -trinidad/

montrealsuper wrote:What a great fighter he was. Not only an action fighter with a power punch but he had fun while fighting, entering the ring Tito looked like he was going to a party to celebrate. Had some great performances vs. Reid, Vargas, Oscar, Whitaker and for some rounds vs. a prime Hopkins. Many great fights. This was a star fighter with a huge fan base. Maybe Don King's last superstar. Interesting that Tito says in this interview what his finest performances were. Very nice read...

Wish he never fought Wright or Roy JOnes though, he was finished by then.

http://thebiofile.com/2011/05/biofile-w ... -trinidad/

Tito and his corner looked clueless vs Hopkins and Wright. And he was not finished by the time he fought Wright. Tito best skill if you want to call it that was his desired to win. Other than that he was a very hard puncher with limited skills.

I wish Trinidad had fought Wright during his pomp --- he would've lost every bit as convincingly as he did a few years later.

I give the guy his due for his punch, his endurance, & his fighting heart, but he is a classic Rocky Marciano-style fighter --- someone who should be good, but carves out a degree of greatness with fairly limited attributes (compared with other greats), but who, at the same time, is a sitting duck for a quality fighter with the right tools (De La Hoya, Hopkins).

All fighters have their kryptonite. Some duck em some don't Tito never ducked anyone. He always fought the best. Had a very exciting TV style, charisma, and one of the finest left hooks you'll ever see. Quartey would have been an interesting challenge but for political reasons that fight was never made - neither King or the Acaries Brothers seemed to want it.

montrealsuper wrote:Quartey would have been an interesting challenge .

indeed, though in the end Ike would probably find a way to not do enough to win the fight.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I wish Trinidad had fought Wright during his pomp --- he would've lost every bit as convincingly as he did a few years later.

I give the guy his due for his punch, his endurance, & his fighting heart, but he is a classic Rocky Marciano-style fighter --- someone who should be good, but carves out a degree of greatness with fairly limited attributes (compared with other greats), but who, at the same time, is a sitting duck for a quality fighter with the right tools (De La Hoya, Hopkins).

Yep, a small version of Foreman, except that Tito fought more quality opponents.

George was a much better athlete, Tito had better punching technique. Felix had cement in his shoes, that was his problem. No doubt Foreman accomplished more and faced the superior opponents.

But for the obvious dig at Irene.

I am hurt, Saad - and you are a goose on this one subject, John. How frustratïng it must be to see Foreman in such a way that just about every fight fan and historian is apparently blind to. LOL.

montrealsuper wrote:All fighters have their kryptonite. Some duck em some don't Tito never ducked anyone. He always fought the best. Had a very exciting TV style, charisma, and one of the finest left hooks you'll ever see. Quartey would have been an interesting challenge but for political reasons that fight was never made - neither King or the Acaries Brothers seemed to want it.

Not true they were supposed to fight and they had a sort of agreement and I read that on fightnews.com. Then apparently Quartey had an injury an the fight was cancelled. This was before the Quartey/DLH fight. I don't blame Quartey for taking the fight vs DLH and not Tito. Much more money vs DLH. To be honest I don't see Quartey defeating Tito in any way shape or form. He simply did not have the tools to defeat Tito. Tito would have KO Quartey, I have little doubt about that.

Idisagree wrote:

montrealsuper wrote:All fighters have their kryptonite. Some duck em some don't Tito never ducked anyone. He always fought the best. Had a very exciting TV style, charisma, and one of the finest left hooks you'll ever see. Quartey would have been an interesting challenge but for political reasons that fight was never made - neither King or the Acaries Brothers seemed to want it.

Not true they were supposed to fight and they had a sort of agreement and I read that on fightnews.com. Then apparently Quartey had an injury an the fight was cancelled. This was before the Quartey/DLH fight. I don't blame Quartey for taking the fight vs DLH and not Tito. Much more money vs DLH. To be honest I don't see Quartey defeating Tito in any way shape or form. He simply did not have the tools to defeat Tito. Tito would have KO Quartey, I have little doubt about that.

I think that Bazooka jab would have gone a long way in helping Ike defeat Tito. But who knows if it would have been enough to keep Trinidad's left hooks off of his suspect chin.

Tito beat a bunch of B-graders (Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, Joppy) but when he stepped up to A-level he showed serious limitations. Oscar deserved the W, Whitaker was washed up and Hopkins and Wright dominated him from bell to bell.

Very exciting and marketable fighter who was great for HBO and good for the sport. But not a great fighter IMO, at least by my definition of great.

And I would favor Quartey over Tito. Quartey could be knocked down but was never knocked at any point in his career . . I think if he can go the distance with Oscar and Forrest he certainly can with Trinidad.

dempseyfire wrote:Tito beat a bunch of B-graders (Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, Joppy) but when he stepped up to A-level he showed serious limitations. Oscar deserved the W, Whitaker was washed up and Hopkins and Wright dominated him from bell to bell.

Very exciting and marketable fighter who was great for HBO and good for the sport. But not a great fighter IMO, at least by my definition of great.

And I would favor Quartey over Tito. Quartey could be knocked down but was never knocked at any point in his career . . I think if he can go the distance with Oscar and Forrest he certainly can with Trinidad.

I agree with most of your post except with this "And I would favor Quartey over Tito. Quartey could be knocked down but was never knocked at any point in his career . . I think if he can go the distance with Oscar and Forrest he certainly can with Trinidad"

You should now better than that. First, Quartey was not an A-grade fighter. Are implying that he was better than Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, and Joppy? For me he certainly was not. He did not have the movement of DLH and he was an average defender. In fact I would grade him same as Joppy or Vargas. Second, Forrest and Oscar were a level below Trinidad in punching power. There is no way at least in my view that you can compare them in terms of power. Oscar was better technician but he was not a better puncher and the same for Forrest. And third, Quartey did not have the defensive tools necessary to keep Tito from landing his money maker. Tito would have destroyed Quartey much in the same way that he did Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, and Joppy.


You either underrate Tito or overrating Quartey.

Idisagree wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Tito beat a bunch of B-graders (Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, Joppy) but when he stepped up to A-level he showed serious limitations. Oscar deserved the W, Whitaker was washed up and Hopkins and Wright dominated him from bell to bell.

Very exciting and marketable fighter who was great for HBO and good for the sport. But not a great fighter IMO, at least by my definition of great.

And I would favor Quartey over Tito. Quartey could be knocked down but was never knocked at any point in his career . . I think if he can go the distance with Oscar and Forrest he certainly can with Trinidad.

I agree with most of your post except with this "And I would favor Quartey over Tito. Quartey could be knocked down but was never knocked at any point in his career . . I think if he can go the distance with Oscar and Forrest he certainly can with Trinidad"

You should now better than that. First, Quartey was not an A-grade fighter. Are implying that he was better than Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, and Joppy? For me he certainly was not. He did not have the movement of DLH and he was an average defender. In fact I would grade him same as Joppy or Vargas. Second, Forrest and Oscar were a level below Trinidad in punching power. There is no way at least in my view that you can compare them in terms of power. Oscar was better technician but he was not a better puncher and the same for Forrest. And third, Quartey did not have the defensive tools necessary to keep Tito from landing his money maker. Tito would have destroyed Quartey much in the same way that he did Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, and Joppy.


You either underrate Tito or overrating Quartey.

I guess I wasn't clear in the post . .I'm not saying Quartey was A-grade. But I do think he was B+ and a slight rung above those I mentioned, I mean many had good arguments for him beating Oscar and Forrest, that's a helluva lot better than what the 4 I mentioned could claim (and yes Vargas beat him, but styles make fights and Quartey's style is much more troublesome for Tito than Fernado's)

In addition, yes I think Oscar's left hook is in the same ballpark power-wise as Tito's . . he wasn't s reliant on it, so people forget how hard Oscar could punch, even up at 147. Forrest also had very under-rated power. Does Tito hit harder than both? Maybe, but not to the extent that I think he could put Ike down for a 10 count when those others could not.

Idisagree wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Tito beat a bunch of B-graders (Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, Joppy) but when he stepped up to A-level he showed serious limitations. Oscar deserved the W, Whitaker was washed up and Hopkins and Wright dominated him from bell to bell.

Very exciting and marketable fighter who was great for HBO and good for the sport. But not a great fighter IMO, at least by my definition of great.

And I would favor Quartey over Tito. Quartey could be knocked down but was never knocked at any point in his career . . I think if he can go the distance with Oscar and Forrest he certainly can with Trinidad.

I agree with most of your post except with this "And I would favor Quartey over Tito. Quartey could be knocked down but was never knocked at any point in his career . . I think if he can go the distance with Oscar and Forrest he certainly can with Trinidad"

You should now better than that. First, Quartey was not an A-grade fighter. Are implying that he was better than Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, and Joppy? For me he certainly was not. He did not have the movement of DLH and he was an average defender. In fact I would grade him same as Joppy or Vargas. Second, Forrest and Oscar were a level below Trinidad in punching power. There is no way at least in my view that you can compare them in terms of power. Oscar was better technician but he was not a better puncher and the same for Forrest. And third, Quartey did not have the defensive tools necessary to keep Tito from landing his money maker. Tito would have destroyed Quartey much in the same way that he did Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, and Joppy.


You either underrate Tito or overrating Quartey.

I agree that Tito should be favored over Ike. But Quartey beat Carr pretty comfortably. So I'd drop him from your argument. And he was clearly a better fighter than Joppy or Mayorga. I have no idea what would make you think otherwise.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Idisagree wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Tito beat a bunch of B-graders (Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, Joppy) but when he stepped up to A-level he showed serious limitations. Oscar deserved the W, Whitaker was washed up and Hopkins and Wright dominated him from bell to bell.

Very exciting and marketable fighter who was great for HBO and good for the sport. But not a great fighter IMO, at least by my definition of great.

And I would favor Quartey over Tito. Quartey could be knocked down but was never knocked at any point in his career . . I think if he can go the distance with Oscar and Forrest he certainly can with Trinidad.

I agree with most of your post except with this "And I would favor Quartey over Tito. Quartey could be knocked down but was never knocked at any point in his career . . I think if he can go the distance with Oscar and Forrest he certainly can with Trinidad"

You should now better than that. First, Quartey was not an A-grade fighter. Are implying that he was better than Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, and Joppy? For me he certainly was not. He did not have the movement of DLH and he was an average defender. In fact I would grade him same as Joppy or Vargas. Second, Forrest and Oscar were a level below Trinidad in punching power. There is no way at least in my view that you can compare them in terms of power. Oscar was better technician but he was not a better puncher and the same for Forrest. And third, Quartey did not have the defensive tools necessary to keep Tito from landing his money maker. Tito would have destroyed Quartey much in the same way that he did Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, and Joppy.


You either underrate Tito or overrating Quartey.

I agree that Tito should be favored over Ike. But Quartey beat Carr pretty comfortably. So I'd drop him from your argument. And he was clearly a better fighter than Joppy or Mayorga. I have no idea what would make you think otherwise.

The fight of Carr vs Quartey was way more competitive than Carr/Trinidad.

I disagree that Quartey was clearly a better fighter than Mayorga. I know style makes fights but Mayorga as bad as he was at least has two wins over a prime Forrest. Quartey best win for me was against Carr and being competive vs DLH. I score the fight vs DLH very close but in my book DLH won that fight. And let's not forget that Quartey lost to Forrest. Other than that Quartey did not do much to talk about.

I believe that if Quartey would have fought Trinidad they way he fought DLH he would have been KO.

They way I see it, Joppy vs Quartey would have been a 50/50 fight for me. I don't see Quartey as being clearly superior to Joppy.

Idisagree wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Idisagree wrote: I agree with most of your post except with this "And I would favor Quartey over Tito. Quartey could be knocked down but was never knocked at any point in his career . . I think if he can go the distance with Oscar and Forrest he certainly can with Trinidad"

You should now better than that. First, Quartey was not an A-grade fighter. Are implying that he was better than Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, and Joppy? For me he certainly was not. He did not have the movement of DLH and he was an average defender. In fact I would grade him same as Joppy or Vargas. Second, Forrest and Oscar were a level below Trinidad in punching power. There is no way at least in my view that you can compare them in terms of power. Oscar was better technician but he was not a better puncher and the same for Forrest. And third, Quartey did not have the defensive tools necessary to keep Tito from landing his money maker. Tito would have destroyed Quartey much in the same way that he did Carr, Vargas, Mayorga, and Joppy.


You either underrate Tito or overrating Quartey.

I agree that Tito should be favored over Ike. But Quartey beat Carr pretty comfortably. So I'd drop him from your argument. And he was clearly a better fighter than Joppy or Mayorga. I have no idea what would make you think otherwise.

The fight of Carr vs Quartey was way more competitive than Carr/Trinidad.

I disagree that Quartey was clearly a better fighter than Mayorga. I know style makes fights but Mayorga as bad as he was at least has two wins over a prime Forrest. Quartey best win for me was against Carr and being competive vs DLH. I score the fight vs DLH very close but in my book DLH won that fight. And let's not forget that Quartey lost to Forrest. Other than that Quartey did not do much to talk about.

I believe that if Quartey would have fought Trinidad they way he fought DLH he would have been KO.

They way I see it, Joppy vs Quartey would have been a 50/50 fight for me. I don't see Quartey as being clearly superior to Joppy.

Carr gave him some trouble early. The second half of the fight Ike was completely dominating. Oscar had issues with Oba as well. My response was to you saying that Oba was better than Quartey anyway. He wasn't.

The Mayorga that beat Forrest was far removed from the out of shape Middleweight that Tito decimated.

Joppy fought in a division that Ike never did, but Joppy was an average fighter at best. If you're calling a fight between a Welterweight and a Middleweight 50/50 than you're conceding that Ike was a better fighter. It was impressive that Tito stopped him because he was tough.

Quartey was robbed against Forrest, he won at least 7 rounds. I find Quartey to be overrated myself. You're just taking it way too far with fighters like Mayorga, Carr & Joppy.

I think we should forget it, actually. This is a prime example of why you should tread carefully with fights you haven't watched --- Forrest won nothing that night.

Wasn't that the fight where Forrest was thanking everyone for a great pre-fight camp after the final bell, & Merchant blurted out, "Would you like to thank the judges?" D

I don't think I'll ever again see Quartey placed equal with Joppy, as was done in this thread. I hope not, anyway.

I don’t see how Joppy is that different from Quartey. They both won title belts vs average fighters and they defended their titles for about the same amount of time vs very similar average fighters. They both lost when they step-up in class. How that does proves that he was far superior? I agree that Quartey was better but not by that much like people here want to pretend.

As for Forrest/Quartey I score that fight 96-95 for Quartey because of the one point deduction. Otherwise it would have been a draw in my eyes. The point deduction was BS. Ledderman score cards are always a joke. For me Forrest clearly won rounds 1, 3, 4, and 7. Round 9 was an even round for because of the point deduction. Quartey won rounds 2, 5, 6, 8, and 10.

That's some ugly scoring. But how does having Forrest/Quartey a draw make Oba Carr, who Ike battered, better than Ike?

You keep asking what was so special about Quartey. Nobody is calling him a HOF fighter. You're just setting the bar hilariously low with your comparisons.

Fighting evenly with Oscar when he was at his best shows that Quartey was capable of fighting at the most elite level the sport has to offer. Mayorga, Carr & Joppy weren't of that caliber.

Espana was a pretty solid fighter too.

Quartey beat Forrest's ass. That decision was foul.

Quartey was a damn good fighter, just seemed to lack that extra fifth gear sometimes in the big fights. But what brilliant technical skills, strength and a hard head. But when the going to tough in the big fights, he didn't really seem to want it as bad, and that's what it comes down to, the iron will, the hunger and drive. But Ike's jab was one of the best jabs of the modern era a piston. He slaughterd some tough guys, like Vince Phillips and Chrisanto Espana. But he was hard to promote in the US and it seemed Tito and Whitaker were protected from Ike. I reckon Ike would have beaten up Whitaker at that latter stage of his career.

Trinidad vs. Ike would have been a hell of a fight. Great fight. Trouble moments for both. But I think Tito would have found a way to win. These were two great fighters.

The Delahoa fight is debatable but losing to Hall of Fame Fighters like Hopkins and Wright, 2 weights above his best, seems to be used as way too much of a detriment to Trinidad career in recent years. Looked at objectively Felix had a great 8 year run that included some very good names on his resume. Fernando Vargas, Yori Boy Campas, David Reed, William Joppy, Oba Carr and a couple of others were all thought of highly when Tito faced them and now they may have well have been punch drunk club fighters. Trinidad should be considered a great fighter, period.

Neither Tito nor De La Hoya were great fighters. They were boxing superstars...That's all.

The Great John L wrote:... a small version of Foreman, except that Tito fought more quality opponents.

what?

More a big version of Danny Lopez than a small George Foreman.