BoxRec

This would be a good one. i want opinions and round by round break downs folks. i got toney weathering an early storm by tyson and taking a close but clear UD.

BarryWashington wrote:

big train express wrote:This would be a good one. i want opinions and round by round break downs folks. i got toney weathering an early storm by tyson and taking a close but clear UD.

are you talking about a '03-'06 james toney? i'm assuming you are. also - which version of mike tyson are you talking about?

The James Toney that schooled Evander vs a prime Mike Tyson.

Prime Tyson

Are you kidding me? Tyson would of destroyed the blubber whale, Tyson at his peak was relentless till the fight was over! Easy TKO for tyson, unless blubber boy ran and clinched.

James Toney outpoints Mike Tyson? Christ almighty, a young Tyson brings more to the table than a 40 year old Evander Holyfield, or any version of John Ruiz. What has become of Boxrec?! Oh God, I can feel the bile rising in my stomach, I have to go now!

Dave81 wrote:Are you kidding me? Tyson would of destroyed the blubber whale, Tyson at his peak was relentless till the fight was over! Easy TKO for tyson, unless blubber boy ran and clinched.

x2 , unless Toney can multiply his 1 inch reach advantage by 10.

say what you want but toney was a defensive masterpiece. tyson's style is tailor made for a guy like toney.

loaded_gloves wrote:James Toney outpoints Mike Tyson? Christ almighty, a young Tyson brings more to the table than a 40 year old Evander Holyfield, or any version of John Ruiz. What has become of Boxrec?! Oh God, I can feel the bile rising in my stomach, I have to go now!

Christ almighty Buster Douglas knocked Tyson the fuk out in his prime.

Toney vs Frazier came up once (perhaps by me) and I think that would have been a great fight. Not so much for who would have won (Frazier in a walk away) but for just how much blood would James be willing to piss for the honor of reaching the bell. lol.

Now I've never been one to drink the kool aid regarding Tyson, and Tyson was not the body snatcher that Joe was. So I'm not so sure this is going to be such a lopsided fight. Toney was a master of slipping punches, and had a granite chin two essentials for success with Tyson. Toney could NEVER be psyched by an opponent, so Tyson's ring walk has no effect on him. Score another check in the "essentials" dept for James.

If Tyson takes his head off quick...(and this could be the fate of anyone who stepped in with Tyson) then yeah score another for Mike. But if the odds were long (and I imagine they would be) the smart money is on James. And I think reality based odds would be closer than the Tyson hacks are going to admit.

big train express wrote:

loaded_gloves wrote:James Toney outpoints Mike Tyson? Christ almighty, a young Tyson brings more to the table than a 40 year old Evander Holyfield, or any version of John Ruiz. What has become of Boxrec?! Oh God, I can feel the bile rising in my stomach, I have to go now!

Christ almighty Buster Douglas knocked Tyson the fuk out in his prime.

Douglas would have beaten Toney too.

big train express wrote:

loaded_gloves wrote:James Toney outpoints Mike Tyson? Christ almighty, a young Tyson brings more to the table than a 40 year old Evander Holyfield, or any version of John Ruiz. What has become of Boxrec?! Oh God, I can feel the bile rising in my stomach, I have to go now!

Christ almighty Buster Douglas knocked Tyson the fuk out in his prime.

OMG, that's the worst possible post you could of wrote, anyone who know's anything about Tyson know's full well that he just turned up to that fight with pretty much no training, taking nothing away from JBD he did what was asked of him, but Tyson lover or not, everyone know's that Tyson still under Kevin Rooney would of put JBD away with ease! Same go's for the blubber whale, name one fighter that toney has been in that is as relentless as Tyson, and hits as hard, and im not just talking in one bomb attacks, prime Tyson use to throw knockout puches in 5 and 6's, another thing that seems to escape alot of peoples minds as well is Tyson defense, at his peak it was a news flash if someone landed a clean shot on him!

Hey Dave,

Count me as one of those idiots who think JBD at his best is always a bit of a puzzle for Mike. He had a good style to give Mike fits.....and according to the video documentation, he did just that. Yep Mike was under trained, and did not take his opponent seriously...and he had clowns surrounding him that night...but to some degree that's who Tyson was. So you can't separate the fighter from his habits and his personality. JBD had another "essential key" to beating Tyson. He COULD NOT be psyched on that night. And if you study his style you'd see that he had some other "keys" going his way in that fight.

Overall though, yes Mike at his best would likely have defeated JBD....because even if Mike would have been taking a points beating up until he got to Buster, I'm pretty sure once Douglas was downed by Mike (at his best), James would not likely have been able to weather a prime Tyson storm.

But the betting odds were not a reflection of reality by any stretch. And he always had a chance...a good chance as a matter of fact.

Dave81 wrote:Are you kidding me? Tyson would of destroyed the blubber whale, Tyson at his peak was relentless till the fight was over! Easy TKO for tyson, unless blubber boy ran and clinched.

Based on which of James Toney's 82 career fights leads you to believe that he would be "easily TKO'd"? The only time he has ever been in trouble for a split second was against Sam Peter and he recovered very quickly. The few times he has been knocked down in 82 fights were flashes or balance shots.

James Toney wouldn't be afraid of Tyson and that was a huge advantage for fighters against Mike.

Mike probably wins on points but it certainly wouldn't be easy. Toney's defense wouldn't allow for an easy win.

Tyson would whip Toney prime for prime. I mean this is a ridiculous argument. Toney would suffer a beating standing flat-footed trying to outslick a Tyson landing hard double hooks and uppercuts. We aren't talking about Sam Peter here. I mean I thought Hasim frikkin' Rahman won a clear decision over Toney in their first fight. Toney is not a worldbeater at HW by any means, he was just able to have some success in an incredibly weak field.

Tyson, all day long.

Jesus, some of you (as usual, BoxBuzz & the whichever troll got us kicked off on this thread) are dense. I assume the OP is having a laugh, since we're not apparently talking about the Toney who stopped Holyfield against a Tyson from a similar time period.

Toney gets flattened. Hard.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

big train express wrote:

loaded_gloves wrote:James Toney outpoints Mike Tyson? Christ almighty, a young Tyson brings more to the table than a 40 year old Evander Holyfield, or any version of John Ruiz. What has become of Boxrec?! Oh God, I can feel the bile rising in my stomach, I have to go now!

Christ almighty Buster Douglas knocked Tyson the fuk out in his prime.

Douglas would have beaten Toney too.

Yes Sir, he would have.

BoxBuzz wrote:Hey Dave,

Count me as one of those idiots who think JBD at his best is always a bit of a puzzle for Mike. He had a good style to give Mike fits.....and according to the video documentation, he did just that. Yep Mike was under trained, and did not take his opponent seriously...and he had clowns surrounding him that night...but to some degree that's who Tyson was. So you can't separate the fighter from his habits and his personality. JBD had another "essential key" to beating Tyson. He COULD NOT be psyched on that night. And if you study his style you'd see that he had some other "keys" going his way in that fight.

Overall though, yes Mike at his best would likely have defeated JBD....because even if Mike would have been taking a points beating up until he got to Buster, I'm pretty sure once Douglas was downed by Mike (at his best), James would not likely have been able to weather a prime Tyson storm.

But the betting odds were not a reflection of reality by any stretch. And he always had a chance...a good chance as a matter of fact.

*Raises hand*, that Buster beats any version of Tyson. People must forget what a one sided ass whipping that was.

Tyson would brutalize Toney though. James was tough so he would suffer a lot of punishment before it got stopped. But it certainly wouldn't be a war. A prime Tyson at heavyweight,the same one that lost Buster, may have been enough to keep Toney in shape and at 175 or Cruiser.

BoxBuzz wrote:Hey Dave,

Count me as one of those idiots who think JBD at his best is always a bit of a puzzle for Mike. He had a good style to give Mike fits.....and according to the video documentation, he did just that. Yep Mike was under trained, and did not take his opponent seriously...and he had clowns surrounding him that night...but to some degree that's who Tyson was. So you can't separate the fighter from his habits and his personality. JBD had another "essential key" to beating Tyson. He COULD NOT be psyched on that night. And if you study his style you'd see that he had some other "keys" going his way in that fight.

Overall though, yes Mike at his best would likely have defeated JBD....because even if Mike would have been taking a points beating up until he got to Buster, I'm pretty sure once Douglas was downed by Mike (at his best), James would not likely have been able to weather a prime Tyson storm.

But the betting odds were not a reflection of reality by any stretch. And he always had a chance...a good chance as a matter of fact.

Excellent post, my thoughts exactly.

Douglas would have beaten Toney too.


Yes Sir, he would have.

x 3 The Douglas who beat Tyson would win a very wide decision against the Toney who beat Holyfield.

For the record, I think Toney beats Tyson by a clear decision or late stoppage if they fought in 2003. But as the matchup is suggested, a prime Mike Tyson knocks Toney out and likely wins every round in the process.

How come people say Tyson wasn't trained when he fought Douglas? He must have had some training as his weight basically stayed the same. I can believe Douglas didn't train his hardest when he lost to Holyfield as he gained 15 pounds and got his ass handed to him... excuse accepted.

Back to the topic, Toney only competed and beat the "not so good heavyweights", Holyfield was old, Ruiz was never that good and same with Peter. I don't see Toney having a chance against a prime Tyson or against the top 5 heavyweights of Tysons era.

Why does being a hardcore James Toney fan seem to go hand in hand with having virtually no knowledge of boxing history whatsoever, including not having that much knowledge of James Toney himself?

One Toney fan on this thread actually wrote that Toney has 'only ever been in trouble against Sam Peter'? Which means they don't even know about a key world title defense in Toney's career, where he was dropped & in terrible trouble vs Reggie Johnson! Incredible!

When Toney slaps around an ancient Holyfield and has mixed results vs John Ruiz, Sam Peter and Hasim Rahman whilst twice failing steroids tests, you don't get into serious discussions on whether he could beat Smokin' Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson, or Buster Douglas. Of course he couldn't. This whole thread is nutty.

loaded_gloves wrote:Why does being a hardcore James Toney fan seem to go hand in hand with having virtually no knowledge of boxing history whatsoever, including not having that much knowledge of James Toney himself?

One Toney fan on this thread actually wrote that Toney has 'only ever been in trouble against Sam Peter'? Which means they don't even know about a key world title defense in Toney's career, where he was dropped & in terrible trouble vs Reggie Johnson! Incredible!

When Toney slaps around an ancient Holyfield and has mixed results vs John Ruiz, Sam Peter and Hasim Rahman whilst twice failing steroids tests, you don't get into serious discussions on whether he could beat Smokin' Joe Frazier, Mike Tyson, or Buster Douglas. Of course he couldn't. This whole thread is nutty.

Livingstone Cole wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Hey Dave,

Count me as one of those idiots who think JBD at his best is always a bit of a puzzle for Mike. He had a good style to give Mike fits.....and according to the video documentation, he did just that. Yep Mike was under trained, and did not take his opponent seriously...and he had clowns surrounding him that night...but to some degree that's who Tyson was. So you can't separate the fighter from his habits and his personality. JBD had another "essential key" to beating Tyson. He COULD NOT be psyched on that night. And if you study his style you'd see that he had some other "keys" going his way in that fight.

Overall though, yes Mike at his best would likely have defeated JBD....because even if Mike would have been taking a points beating up until he got to Buster, I'm pretty sure once Douglas was downed by Mike (at his best), James would not likely have been able to weather a prime Tyson storm.

But the betting odds were not a reflection of reality by any stretch. And he always had a chance...a good chance as a matter of fact.

*Raises hand*, that Buster beats any version of Tyson. People must forget what a one sided ass whipping that was.

Tyson would brutalize Toney though. James was tough so he would suffer a lot of punishment before it got stopped. But it certainly wouldn't be a war. A prime Tyson at heavyweight,the same one that lost Buster, may have been enough to keep Toney in shape and at 175 or Cruiser.

I'm not sure. Mike landed that uppercut that put Douglas down at the end of the 8th. I didn't think he was going to get up from that. I think if that punch landed 30 seconds earlier, Mike could have stopped him.

If Tyson was in shape, then he beats Douglas that night. I'm not saying it would be an easy night, because it wouldn't.

I doubt it, Buster wasn't in that bad of a way. But you're right, Tyson would always have the ability to land a wing and prayer. Douglas taking 8 or 9 out of 10 is more realistic than my original statement.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I doubt it, Buster wasn't in that bad of a way. But you're right, Tyson would always have the ability to land a wing and prayer. Douglas taking 8 or 9 out of 10 is more realistic than my original statement.

He was down for more than ten seconds mate, he was hurt badly. I just think if Tyson was in shape, moving his head and had a real trainer in the corner, Buster would have gone down earlier in the fight and Tyson would have had the stamina to finish him.