BoxRec

I have just watched http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/13616446.stm this on BBC and Eddie Hearn who now promotes the Cobra Carl Froch states that he is potentially the Greatest British fighter of all time., I am not sure what to make of that, but I can name two ahead of the Cobra, Lennox Lewis and Joe Calzaghe simply through unifying their divisions at Heavyweight and Super-Middleweight respectively, however you can argue that Calzaghe should be above Lewis because he went through his entire professional career undefeated is number 3 on the all time list for the most successive world title defences, which is still a great achievement regardless of the fractured period of boxing with the numerous governing bodies that we have running the sport that we all love, although Lewis managed to avenge his two knockout defeats to both Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman, while Froch has just the one loss on his late a points loss to Mikkel Kessler who Calzaghe defeated on points.

So what does everyone make of Hearn's claim. His optimism is admirable but in the cold light of day, Froch is still building his legacy while both Lewis and Calzaghe have cemented theirs, Lewis in the Hall of Fame Already, while Calzaghe will be up for nomination in 2013.

Froch isnt even in my top 5 if im honest, can't even say that till end of his career anyway

Camcas wrote:Froch isnt even in my top 5 if im honest, can't even say that till end of his career anyway

So who is in your Top 5 then mate?

IRLangmaid25 wrote:

Camcas wrote:Froch isnt even in my top 5 if im honest, can't even say that till end of his career anyway

So who is in your Top 5 then mate?

Calzaghe
Lewis
Honeyghan
Hatton
Eubank
Cooper(becuase he was an icon)
Benn(maybe)

It doesn't stack up at all. I don't see how a strong case can be made that Froch is the greatest British fighter of all time.

crusader wrote:It doesn't stack up at all. I don't see how a strong case can be made that Froch is the greatest British fighter of all time.

It did not to me Crusader when I heard Eddie Hearn make this claim in the video that I put up, although he won the Commonwealth and a Lonsdale outright, wins the World title against a future world title holder in Jean Pascal beats two former world champions in Jermain Taylor and Arthur Abraham abet their titles came down at Middleweight. To me when I digested Hearn's comments the case was not as strong at all. However it can change depending on what occurs in the Super Six.

Camcas wrote:

IRLangmaid25 wrote:

Camcas wrote:Froch isnt even in my top 5 if im honest, can't even say that till end of his career anyway

So who is in your Top 5 then mate?

Calzaghe
Lewis
Honeyghan
Hatton
Eubank
Cooper(becuase he was an icon)
Benn(maybe)

Clearly you do not think there was a sport called "Boxing" before 1985. Chucking in Cooper just because he has been in the news lately does not show any knowledge of pre-1980s boxing.

Ever heard of Ted Kid Lewis? Ken Buchanan? John Conteh? Howard Winstone?


In the modern category, how about Naz? Unified champ, beat all the other champs, lost one fight and that was to a hall of famer. Hmmmm.

Potentially Froch can be. By the end of his career he will have beaten better fighters than Calzaghe!

All depends on the criteria you're using to rate them and it's very hard to come up with a sensible one. Hard to compare fighters like Kid Lewis and Wilde who had 200-300+ fights, 15 rounds, 6lbs gloves different rules etc with today's very different era. We've been lucky enough to have some great fighters and I think the best you can say for any of them is that they were the best of their era.

Don't read too much into Eddie's comments, he's a promoter. Was it his Dad that said when Rhodes turned pro that by the end of his career people would be asking 'Sugar Ray Who'?

Ahem, Benny Lynch, ahem

leforge wrote:Potentially Froch can be. By the end of his career he will have beaten better fighters than Calzaghe!

Never mind the end of his career, Calzaghe never had a run of opponents like Froch has recently had. And the only time he got close was right at the end but the 2 biggest names he fought were not in their prime. Ok, Hopkins has gone on to prove he's not past it but he defintely wasn't in his prime.
I agree its a bold statement to make about Froch but if he wins the super 6, beats Bute and moves up to LHW and becomes a 2 weight world champion then yes, he would definitely be up there with the best we have produced.
Alot of if's though but i wish him all the best, love watching him fight

If Froch retired tomorrow,he would be in the top 10.

If he beats Johnson and Ward,he will be a british boxing legend.

The person who has Hatton over Froch must be joking!

Froch has achieved more than Hatton without the popularity.

Come on guys - new Promoter, fighter back on Sky, etc etc.
I suppose you've never heard a Promotor make outlandish claims about fighters have you ?
It doesn't matter whether he can justify his claim.
There is no such thing as bad publicity.
Interview on BBC to bring Froch's name to the masses.
Claims he's the best there's ever been.
Every none boxing sports fan will be aware of his name now.
Good Promoting.

I think Eddie's hyping him.

Lists are subjective.

But Carl's certainly got the biggest balls of all time.

twenty six wrote:Come on guys - new Promoter, fighter back on Sky, etc etc.
I suppose you've never heard a Promotor make outlandish claims about fighters have you ?
It doesn't matter whether he can justify his claim.
There is no such thing as bad publicity.
Interview on BBC to bring Froch's name to the masses.
Claims he's the best there's ever been.
Every none boxing sports fan will be aware of his name now.
Good Promoting.

Good to see you back on here mate

twenty six wrote:Come on guys - new Promoter, fighter back on Sky, etc etc.
I suppose you've never heard a Promotor make outlandish claims about fighters have you ?
It doesn't matter whether he can justify his claim.
There is no such thing as bad publicity.
Interview on BBC to bring Froch's name to the masses.
Claims he's the best there's ever been.
Every none boxing sports fan will be aware of his name now.
Good Promoting.

I think most people know that Hearn is just trying to promote his fighter, but that shouldn't preclude a discussion about Froch's all-time standing.

6 months ago there were threads about the lack of promotion of frochs name in the media.

now everyone's moaning about this piece of hyperbole.



for the record i'd have froch's achievements just behind jc and lennox at this stage and either level with or just ahead of hatton....froch doesn't have a win comparable with ricky's victory over kosta tzu as yet....mind you neither did calzaghe for that matter...though i'd put him ahead for the manner of his victories over lacy, kessler and hopkins.

if froch wins the super 6 i'd push him ahead of hatton and on an equal footing with calzaghe...

G0mez wrote:I think Eddie's hyping him.

Lists are subjective.

But Carl's certainly got the biggest balls of all time.

Bigger than Eubank's, or Benn's, or Honeyghan's? I think not

I think the key word is could. Hearn isn't saying Froch is, or will become, he's saying could become. And maybe he can, but he'd have to go some to beat Lewis, simply because the opposition doesn't currently appear to be out there for him to earn such an accolade against — that's why I'd rank Lewis ahead of Calzaghe, strength of opposition. But like Lewis, and unlike Calzaghe, Froch has achieved an awful lot fighting away from home and that puts him in good stead by my personal criteria.

Camcas wrote:

IRLangmaid25 wrote:

Camcas wrote:Froch isnt even in my top 5 if im honest, can't even say that till end of his career anyway

So who is in your Top 5 then mate?

Calzaghe
Lewis
Honeyghan
Hatton
Eubank
Cooper(becuase he was an icon)
Benn(maybe)

a prime benn beats a prime calzaghe imo

apophenic wrote:6 months ago there were threads about the lack of promotion of frochs name in the media.

now everyone's moaning about this piece of hyperbole.



for the record i'd have froch's achievements just behind jc and lennox at this stage and either level with or just ahead of hatton....froch doesn't have a win comparable with ricky's victory over kosta tzu as yet....mind you neither did calzaghe for that matter...though i'd put him ahead for the manner of his victories over lacy, kessler and hopkins.

if froch wins the super 6 i'd push him ahead of hatton and on an equal footing with calzaghe...

Who is "moaning"? Disagreeing doesn't equate to moaning.

It's interesting to see how people think Froch compares to the British greats. A few years ago I didn't think Froch would have enough to compete on the world stage for very long--he definitely proved me wrong.

Darcy Delaney wrote:

Camcas wrote:

IRLangmaid25 wrote: So who is in your Top 5 then mate?

Calzaghe
Lewis
Honeyghan
Hatton
Eubank
Cooper(becuase he was an icon)
Benn(maybe)

a prime benn beats a prime calzaghe imo

no chance. benn's one of my favorite all time but i don't see him as having the technical nouse to break calzaghe down...

crusader wrote:

apophenic wrote:6 months ago there were threads about the lack of promotion of frochs name in the media.

now everyone's moaning about this piece of hyperbole.



for the record i'd have froch's achievements just behind jc and lennox at this stage and either level with or just ahead of hatton....froch doesn't have a win comparable with ricky's victory over kosta tzu as yet....mind you neither did calzaghe for that matter...though i'd put him ahead for the manner of his victories over lacy, kessler and hopkins.

if froch wins the super 6 i'd push him ahead of hatton and on an equal footing with calzaghe...

Who is "moaning"? Disagreeing doesn't equate to moaning.

It's interesting to see how people think Froch compares to the British greats. A few years ago I didn't think Froch would have enough to compete on the world stage for very long--he definitely proved me wrong.

i always thought he had the potential but i never thought he'd take it on the road and fight such an impressive list of world class fighters consecutively...

Can't look past the fact that he hasn't proved himself without doubt to be the best in his division yet. Many think Ward is, some Bute. As impressive as his run is (and it really is) I can't help thinking that in time of 17 rather than 8 divisions, the Ward fight will be his defining one either way in all time terms.

Just over a year ago Froch was on a big downer having lost to a faded Mikkel Kessler.... Now he's beaten fighter whose limitations have been shown before and since with clear loses - he is now being debated as the greatest British fighter of all time.

It could be easily argued that Froch is quite lucky to be in the position he is in. WBC champion, despite losing the title, 2-1 in the Super Six (the majority think it should be 1-2). Now fighting a 40+ faded force for a place in the final.

Sure I have been on a comparitve downer on Froch compared to some - but I would say the same if this was anyone else. Even if its a Froch vs Ward final and Ward does a number on Froch (as he has done all his opponents so far). I would still post on here that Ward hasn't proved himself the best Super Middleweight - he must fight and beat Bute. Sure I would have the winner of Froch vs Ward s the #1 in the devision, but need Bute to prove themselves worthy of that position.

Its nothing personal, its certainly not because I am Welsh and love Joe Calzaghe (check my post history). I am actually a fan and admire his progress in the last 2 years or so. However, I'm not on the Froch train when it comes to suggestions that a) he should be ranked #1 at Super Middleweight now and b) he is the best British fighter of all time. He needs alot more to prove himself ahead of Hatton and Calzaghe. I'm not even that sure he lies in the top ten.

The super six was an innovative idea, but it turned into a bit of a disaster with the pull outs. It soon became the super 5 plus Alan Green, and since Froch vs Abraham has really become the Super 2 plus and old legend and a overated 1 dimensional middleweight. It wasn't great box office that Abraham who put in a lame performance against Dirrell and Froch could, even after those two performances, technically win the tournament. Just imagine what an anti climax it would have been had Abraham got lucky against Ward - Abraham vs Froch 2 isn't top of the list of rematches.