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As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 10:32
by palooka
I was very impressed with the amount of energy and passionate argument on another thread about whether running was 'good' or 'bad'.
(So I thought I'd poke the embers a bit)
I held the impression that road work, (running) was an important part of a boxers training regime. The discipline, lung fitness and room for improvement (in time trails etc) was a good thing.
What do others think?
Are there other equally good or better methods of improving aerobic capacity/fitness?
(Please correct any errors I am not an expert, just interested).
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 10:42
by jamesmcdonnell
From personal conditioners I've spoken to, running is good, but not neccessarily the long roadwork many fighters do. Interval running with sprints and more measured pace is more befitting the type of fitness boxers need.
However, it's very good for shifting weight, which is why I think it's so popular.
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 10:43
by alexpaterson
I think it is important. For fitness and stamina it's very good, but can be replicated from other things I.e. Swimming. But the mental side of it waking up early and running teaches dedication and it does get the weight down. I think running is vital for fighters in training
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 10:52
by freddydoesdallas
Excessive running hampered Errol Christie's career.
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 10:54
by palooka
freddydoesdallas wrote:Excessive running hampered Errol Christie's career.
Would you elaborate please freddy? I'm not clued up on that.
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 10:55
by jamesmcdonnell
alexpaterson wrote:I think it is important. For fitness and stamina it's very good, but can be replicated from other things I.e. Swimming. But the mental side of it waking up early and running teaches dedication and it does get the weight down. I think running is vital for fighters in training
I think that the type of running that is most beneficial is debatable though. I used to speak to a conditioner who had trained atheletes from many sports, and he said that in many cases, boxers were far less fit, than their counterparts.
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 10:59
by freddydoesdallas
Can't remember the full details but it was something to do with him building his calf muscles up too much through the running and then something within the calf hardening and becoming strained. He used to run a lot though.
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 11:00
by palooka
jamesmcdonnell wrote:alexpaterson wrote:I think it is important. For fitness and stamina it's very good, but can be replicated from other things I.e. Swimming. But the mental side of it waking up early and running teaches dedication and it does get the weight down. I think running is vital for fighters in training
I think that the type of running that is most beneficial is debatable though. I used to speak to a conditioner who had trained atheletes from many sports, and he said that
in many cases, boxers were far less fit, than their counterparts.
Would you please elaborate James? I am very interested in this. I did imagine that boxers were among the fittest of athletes. Could you expand on this?
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 11:04
by MDM28
I think running is a good tool to use but would agree that doing intervals would be better.
You could also do a long steady state run 1 or 2 times a week and the rest of the time do intervals or 100m, 200m, 400m sprints.
It's interesting as the other day was reading an extract from Jack Dempseys 'Championship Boxing' book on the net (think it was written in 1950ish) which advocated steady running interspersed with 100 yard sprints so obviously interval training is not a new thing to boxers.
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 11:04
by jamesmcdonnell
I used to correspond with someone called Stephen Sherry , he had delivered conditioning for baseball, basketball, american football and boxing participants.
He said that in general, boxing training tended to lag behind in terms of how archaic it's methods were, and that the focus on long punishing runs in particular was very foolish as it was only good for core fitness, and not the type of explosive bursts of energy that a fighter needs. He recommended interval running over long runs for this.
He named a number of very high profile trainers who he said in terms of conditioning, and modern nutrition methods, knew next to nothing.
In boxing an edge in conditioning unless it is a very big one, doesn't neccessarily mean a lot, but I found what he had to say interesting.
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 11:05
by jamesmcdonnell
MDM28 wrote:I think running is a good tool to use but would agree that doing intervals would be better.
You could also do a long steady state run 1 or 2 times a week and the rest of the time do intervals or 100m, 200m, 400m sprints.
It's interesting as the other day was reading an extract from Jack Dempseys 'Championship Boxing' book on the net (think it was written in 1950ish) which advocated steady running interspersed with 100 yard sprints so obviously interval training is not a new thing to boxers.
It's also what Bob Fitzsimmons did, I used to have a training manual he wrote - wish I'd not lost it, reckon it might have been quite rate.
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 11:46
by Josh1111
Its obvious that running will help but its not the only thing that will get you fit.
Think of it like this, eating lots of chocolate will get you fat, but there are plenty of other things that will make you fat like kebabs and various other foods
And yes, this is spoken from lets of years of eating chocolate and kebabs
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 11:50
by jamesmcdonnell
King Geedorah wrote:jamesmcdonnell wrote:MDM28 wrote:I think running is a good tool to use but would agree that doing intervals would be better.
You could also do a long steady state run 1 or 2 times a week and the rest of the time do intervals or 100m, 200m, 400m sprints.
It's interesting as the other day was reading an extract from Jack Dempseys 'Championship Boxing' book on the net (think it was written in 1950ish) which advocated steady running interspersed with 100 yard sprints so obviously interval training is not a new thing to boxers.
It's also what Bob Fitzsimmons did, I used to have a training manual he wrote - wish I'd not lost it, reckon it might have been quite rate.
http://www.archive.org/stream/physicalc ... 6/mode/2up
http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/192 ... e-lulu.pdf
Got a decent PDF version at home. It came in quite useful when I was under attack from Granberry.
Yeah but I had an original copy from 1890 I think it was, in pretty good nick too, and I lot the bugger.
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 12:03
by JC
freddydoesdallas wrote:Can't remember the full details but it was something to do with him building his calf muscles up too much through the running and then something within the calf hardening and becoming strained. He used to run a lot though.
Christie had Compartment Syndrome which the running made worse. It may or may not have been caused by running/training in the first place. It's not an issue that will effect the vast majority of fighters.
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 13:05
by levi billups
I would concur with James. I had my first white collar fight a couple of weeks ago, having run marathons for several years, so along with the skills I had picked up, I was confident I was pretty fit. But what the long distance runner lacks is explosive speed, so while I was plodding on at the end of the bout, I was somewhat outpaced for the first round or two. I'll definitely put in some short sharp runs, uphill stuff etc, for the next one, and maybe I'll be able to get out of second gear.....
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 13:49
by Spiker
Without a doubt HIIT is much more benificial in most sports now.
It seems to have taken a while for this way of thinking to come around.
You often see fat people at the gym running for miles and getting nowhere.
I'm a personal trainer and would definitily suggest this for boxing without doubt.
i also wonder about the whole getting out of bed at 5am thing and running as well fornicate that
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 16:00
by Londonirish
James knows his stuff
Iv never use to run at all untill 1 1/2 year ago, i do feel better for it, mich higher fitness...
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 16:10
by SAPFO
To make it easier. Just go out, warm up with a 5 min jog, then sprint/rest between lamposts. Do it until you puke! Job done!
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 16:25
by orbtastic
freddydoesdallas wrote:Can't remember the full details but it was something to do with him building his calf muscles up too much through the running and then something within the calf hardening and becoming strained. He used to run a lot though.
He says so in his book, there was a medical term for it. He did excessive amounts of running though, way beyond what people normally do.
The overall question - It's aerobic vs anaerobic. I can't imagine there are too many pro boxers who regularly do rounds at a high level and move around who get by on doing little or no running. If you are crafty and basically don't want to win fights, you could probably get by so long as you did some gym work (by that it could be - sparring, skipping, hitting the pads, doing the bags blah blah).
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 16:40
by housesecond
It can be done without running, but a boxer best be sure to know what they're doing (or be surrounded by people who know) to be able to get away with it.
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 16:56
by binipop
Barry McGuigan did an interesting article on this very subject in the daily mirror a few weeks ago ( i tried to look it up again on their website but it looks like it's been taken off). I don't remember it all but what i do remember him saying was that he was doing intervals when in his fighting prime, at a time when not many other fighters (if any) were doing them. He felt that merely doing long distance running at a steady pace did nothing much apart from help a fighter to lose weight and because of his superior conditioning he was able to beat fighters who were more talented than he was.He also said that the fighters he trains these days are not allowed to run more than 3 times a week.
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 17:02
by Gavler
simon fox wrote:I was very impressed with the amount of energy and passionate argument on another thread about whether running was 'good' or 'bad'.
(So I thought I'd poke the embers a bit)
I held the impression that road work, (running) was an important part of a boxers training regime. The discipline, lung fitness and room for improvement (in time trails etc) was a good thing.
What do others think?
Are there other equally good or better methods of improving aerobic capacity/fitness?
(Please correct any errors I am not an expert, just interested).
I find that very in intresting as i do abit of amature boxing and i found if i did not do any running i couldnt keep up with the other lads in the gym in sparrin and when i started doing running it done wonders for my fitness
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 17:15
by Spiker
MachoMan09 wrote:Spiker wrote:Without a doubt HIIT is much more benificial in most sports now.
It seems to have taken a while for this way of thinking to come around.
You often see fat people at the gym running for miles and getting nowhere.
I'm a personal trainer and would definitily suggest this for boxing without doubt.
i also wonder about the whole getting out of bed at 5am thing and running as well eff that
Much more beneficial
than what and
for what?
It's frustrating that the nouveau interval training crowd are so quick to write-off all other forms of training because they themselves have finally stumbled across intervals, high-intensity or otherwise. Elite athletes have been using intervals for decades, it's nothing new. Boxing by it's very nature is a form of interval training.
A decent training programme will have a mix of intensities over the days, weeks and months it is planned over. You cannot do high intensity intervals day in day out. Likewise, if all you do is low intensity endurance work, you'll lack sharpness and your lactate threshold will worsen. A smart athlete/boxer will make sure he has a solid aerobic base and then build on that with higher intensity work as he approaches fight night. He'll then take a little rest and begin another cycle. Simple periodisation.
BTW, the reason why the fat guy in the gym is fat is because he is in calorie surplus and has been for some time. His mode of training is irrelevant. The guys in Belsen were thin and they were neither on a treadmill nor doing HIIT.
WRONG!
The guy that is fat on the treadmill is going at a constant comfortable pace where as someone doing HIIT is pushing themself.
As for what for what. I mean jogging at a constant pace as apposed to running hard for 3 mins then jogging for 1 min then running for 3.
As for the guys in belsen i cant comment unless you have iside info, which you obviously do but i would hazard a guess they were not eating.
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 17:59
by ciscokid
Spiker wrote:
WRONG!
The guy that is fat on the treadmill is going at a constant comfortable pace where as someone doing HIIT is pushing themself.
I thought that someone in the fat burning zone is (surprisingly), burning fat.. Where-as someone who is doing HITT is burning muscle?
That's what it says in my heart rate monitor booklet.
cheers
Re: As a boxer, should running an integral part of your training
Posted: 02 Jun 2011, 18:36
by Spiker
ciscokid wrote:Spiker wrote:
WRONG!
The guy that is fat on the treadmill is going at a constant comfortable pace where as someone doing HIIT is pushing themself.
I thought that someone in the fat burning zone is (surprisingly), burning fat.. Where-as someone who is doing HITT is burning muscle?
That's what it says in my heart rate monitor booklet.
cheers
only if you are in a calorie defecit. The fat burning zone as a rule of thumb is pulse 220 minus your age.
I find a lot of people jogging to lose weight are not going at it hard enough.
You are not going to get catabolic if your diet is correct which as an athlete it should be.
Each to there own but its a very common mistake people make i presume that comment was meant as a joke. im not sure what booklet you have :)