BoxRec

how can you fight and win like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lihT_ewxVko

and fight and loose like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A5aeD6o ... re=related

my guess is that going in the empire of
the enemy was just too much. not too take
anything away from louis, but in the first
schmelling took everything that louis had
to offer and did not go down ... while in
the second louis almost took him out with
the first assault.

man wrote:how can you fight and win like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lihT_ewxVko

and fight and loose like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A5aeD6o ... re=related

my guess is that going in the empire of
the enemy was just too much. not too take
anything away from louis, but in the first
schmelling took everything that louis had
to offer and did not go down ... while in
the second louis almost took him out with
the first assault.

Its a case of learning from the loss, which Louis did. He was a different fighter in the rematch. Man was on a Mission in the second fight. That was a PEAK Joe Louis.

One man had improved, the other had regressed.

There is a line in the movie, Joe & Max, where they ask Louis if he holds fear of Schmeling going into the return fight. He just says, "Why would I? He's two years older, I'm two years stronger."

It rings true. Louis' main weakness Schmeling exposed had been refined & essentially corrected, while Schmeling was on Father Time's decline.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:One man had improved, the other had regressed.

There is a line in the movie, Joe & Max, where they ask Louis if he holds fear of Schmeling going into the return fight. He just says, "Why would I? He's two years older, I'm two years stronger."

It rings true. Louis' main weakness Schmeling exposed had been refined & essentially corrected, while Schmeling was on Father Time's decline.

Yes, Louis was going to win the rematch, but I think it absolutely stunk that some of Schmeling's key handlers were not allowed at his side that night. Maybe it was just his manager, never been sure of the real story.

Schmeling got messed with in quite a few ways. He should have gotten the shot against Braddock first.

Nice that Schmeling and Louis became friends down the line. IIRC, Schmeling paid for the Brown Bomber's funeral.

Wasnt it said Schmeling received a lasting cut of Louis' future takings for stepping aside (regarding Braddock)? Or was that Braddock who got the cut of Louis to avoid Schmeling?

Goodnight, Irene wrote:One man had improved, the other had regressed.

There is a line in the movie, Joe & Max, where they ask Louis if he holds fear of Schmeling going into the return fight. He just says, "Why would I? He's two years older, I'm two years stronger."

It rings true. Louis' main weakness Schmeling exposed had been refined & essentially corrected, while Schmeling was on Father Time's decline.

i don't know. when you watch the first fight, of course it
was the over right hand that did most damage on louis.
but louis was throwing all fight and schmelling could take
all he had. puzzling to me is the weird dominance in fight II.
Schmelling just did not throw, so louis could come in with
everything immediately.

i heard that people would yell and spit at schmelling on
his way to the ring. in a foreign country and a huge crowd
against you, i think that can have an effect.

In the biogs ( and maybe auto-biog too ) it was suggested that Louis had started to enjoy the playboy lifestyle a bit too much. He was still super fit and trainign but he'd just lost that edge. Add to this that Schmeling really was a great fighter in his own right.

Louis had never been so up for a fight before as he was for the rematch.

Also... and this is lost in the 10/10 thread...

Boxing is not like other sports where there are elague tables and multiple contests. When a great fighters meet the result can be determined on very small factors that then become larger and larger as the fight goes on. All kinds of behind the scenes factors (called excuses if you're that way inclined) effect the outcome fo any event.

Ezzard wrote:In the biogs ( and maybe auto-biog too ) it was suggested that Louis had started to enjoy the playboy lifestyle a bit too much. He was still super fit and trainign but he'd just lost that edge. Add to this that Schmeling really was a great fighter in his own right...

Louis had never been so up for a fight before as he was for the rematch.

Also... and this is lost in the 10/10 thread...

Boxing is not like other sports where there are elague tables and multiple contests. When a great fighters meet the result can be determined on very small factors that then become larger and larger as the fight goes on. All kinds of behind the scenes factors (called excuses if you're that way inclined) effect the outcome fo any event.

Hmmm. Who have we heard enjoy this excuse thousands of times over, I wonder?

What is a rare Louis priviledge here is an excuse du jour for another certain fighter of lore.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Wasnt it said Schmeling received a lasting cut of Louis' future takings for stepping aside (regarding Braddock)? Or was that Braddock who got the cut of Louis to avoid Schmeling?

Braddock got the cut.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ezzard wrote:In the biogs ( and maybe auto-biog too ) it was suggested that Louis had started to enjoy the playboy lifestyle a bit too much. He was still super fit and trainign but he'd just lost that edge. Add to this that Schmeling really was a great fighter in his own right...

Louis had never been so up for a fight before as he was for the rematch.

Also... and this is lost in the 10/10 thread...

Boxing is not like other sports where there are elague tables and multiple contests. When a great fighters meet the result can be determined on very small factors that then become larger and larger as the fight goes on. All kinds of behind the scenes factors (called excuses if you're that way inclined) effect the outcome fo any event.

Hmmm. Who have we heard enjoy this excuse thousands of times over, I wonder?

What is a rare Louis priviledge here is an excuse du jour for another certain fighter of lore.

And which "certain fighter of lore" we be talking about?

Certainly not my man, but I wonder who?

Spit it out, lad.

Id like to think it painfully obvious, Yance, but if we must, Tyson and the Douglas fight.

Ezzard wrote:In the biogs ( and maybe auto-biog too ) it was suggested that Louis had started to enjoy the playboy lifestyle a bit too much. He was still super fit and trainign but he'd just lost that edge. Add to this that Schmeling really was a great fighter in his own right.

all good and well, but a "great fighter" does not suffer
such loss after dominating and koing the other guy
in the first match. btw i don't dispute at all that louis was
the way superior boxer. ... in fact i generally believe
that schmeling is overrated. he had a short well managed
run in the post-tunney-pre-louis era, that was about it.

it just occurred to me recently when i watched both fights
that such an ending is relatively unheard of. it was the
second to one fight in terms of shortest heavy weight
championship bouts until then (at least the commentator
said that) and the first fight did not at all indicate such
a one sided thing. schmeling was up to louis in all departments
in fight one and in none in fight two. basically in the second
schmeling was a bum ... and not even a good one.

Not attempting to draw parallels between the participants, merely the results, but Paul Williams looked like shite against Carlos Quintana the first time, & the second time he blew him away.

That was the case where an unprepared fighter who relied too much on one facet of his game was beaten by a prepared & focused underdog who knew exactly what he was doing & how he was going to do it, with a well-worked out gameplan & the determination that comes from having nothing to lose & going in with everyone expecting you to be flattened. In the rematch, the marquee fighter was on top of his game, & so desperate to make a statement that Normal Service was resumed, emphatically. N.B. I'm not saying that Louis would do Schmeling in a round another 98 times, were the two to fight that often. Fvck, I'm not even saying Williams does Quintana in one round another 98 times. Just that the better fighter would tend to win the majority of those other 98 hypothetical matches, & in the one-round results that we're discussing went completely out of their way to prove their superiority & was in each case devastatingly successful.

Just my take on it, that I've always assumed Louis was far superior to Schmeling, but on that one night it all came together for Max & all went horribly wrong for Joe.

Nice work Datsue.

That Schmelling fight. He fought a perfect fight the first time. I recall reading that 'I see's something'. The account I read regarding what he saw was a tendency Louis had with regard to setting himself up to punch. Schmelling felt he was the man to take advantage of it.

Regarding the second fight I also read that Louis was pissed at having lost and was totally determined not to let that happen again. So coupled with Louis' skills, punch and hyper saturated determination he just came out and cut him down.

I read that ringsiders heard Schmelling scream from a body punch in that fight. If you recall what Gatti looked like in the opening seconds of round 9 fight 1 with Ward you can understand how Schmelling must have felt.

The Second God wrote:He fought a perfect fight the first time. I recall reading that 'I see's something'.

i think it was louis dropping the left after jabbing ...