BoxRec

Here is a little trivia that I have titled “Boxing – Did You Know?” I would appreciate any constructive feedback and additional contributions (it is for an upcoming book).

James J. Corbett and Mike Tyson – what could these two possibly have in common? After all, one is a “Gentleman” and the other is “Iron”.

There are both Hall-of-Fame ex-heavyweight champions from America (duh?); well, that information and a quarter will get you some bubble gum, right?

Time for some serious analysis:

James J. Corbett [13 letters] – Michael G. Tyson [13 letters].

Corbett is born in the year 1866 – Tyson is born exactly one hundred years later (1966).

They both win and lose their HW titles via stoppages – this occurs twice to Tyson.

Corbett and Tyson each suffer three career stoppage losses in world HW championship matches – Corbett to (Fitzsimmons and twice to Jeffries) and Tyson to (Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis).

Both Corbett and Tyson lose their HW titles (via stoppages) to older boxers who are first champions in lower weight divisions – Corbett to Fitzsimmons (first a MW champion and three years older) and Tyson to Holyfield (first a CW champion and three years older).

They both have ex-sparring partners (Jeffries for Corbett; McCall for Tyson) that go on to become HW Champions.

Their ex-sparring partners each have fewer career stoppage losses than their former employers – only one each for Jeffries and McCall.

Corbett and Tyson each have three rematches in their career: Corbett with (Choynski, Smith and Jeffries) and Tyson with (Bruno, Ruddock and Holyfield) – defeating their first two rematch opponents and losing both bouts to their third rematch opponents (via stoppages/disqualification).

Both Corbett’s and Tyson’s career each end with a stoppage loss.

Update/Extras:

Corbett is the first (and only) to defeat and stop linear and seven year world HW champion John L. Sullivan – Tyson is the first (and only) to defeat and stop linear world HW champion Michael Spinks and the first (and only) to stop seven year world HW champion Larry Holmes; Tyson is also the first to stop preceding world HW champions Pinklon Thomas and Tony Tubbs and the first to defeat reigning world HW champion (in a unification bout) Tony Tucker.

Corbett is the first to defeat and stop top contender Joe Choynski - Tyson is the first to defeat and stop top contenders Tyrell Biggs and later, Buster Mathis Jr.


Here is a Boxing story (directly from this site) that for some reason (??) I find to be the most interesting I have found:

“Paul Berlenbach was born a deaf-mute to French and German parents. When he was 18, while working as an instructor at a Westchester County institution for deaf-mutes, he went to the aid of a boy whose kite had become entangled in an electric wire 12 feet above the ground. Climbing a pole, he released the kite, but came in contact with the wire, received a shock, and fell to the ground. Those who came to his rescue feared him dead. First aid revived him. When he came to, he immediately found that he now had normal hearing. Subsequent treatment developed his speech.”

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Paul_Berlenbach

P.S.

If anyone knows of such boxing stories (in or out of the ring) please pass along (with a link, if possible). Thank you – Kal.

Damn, I'm chuckling. I don't know what to make of those coincidences.

If you are gonna fill a book with these arcane developments you have uncovered what will be the concept that you stress. Boxing oddities? Strance conincidences etc. What other ones have you found?

I have to say this will be a boxing book of a different kind. It will probably be fun to read.

Don't forget that they both liked to slap around women . . .

Thanks for the feedback guys: Glad you like but remember, I have to keep it clean (lol).

I can't give away too much else but it is not just a book on boxing (check out my profile for all the details).

Here is a small extra (no doubt not as much fun as the Corbett/Tyson similarities):

Boxers (from the same or different era/division) with near identical career records.

I will list their name and in brackets will be the division(s) they fought in, career wins, losses (KO by losses in brackets) and KO wins.

Three examples:

Battling Nelson [FW-WW: 59-19(3); 40 KO].

Ad Wolgast [FW-WW: 59-13(3); 40 KO].

Now, a couple of heavyweights:

Bernardo Mercado [HW: 33-5(4); 28 KO].

Gerrie Coetzee [HW: 33-6(4); 21 KO].

And, boxers from a different era/division:

Jim Driscoll [FW: 57-3(1); 37 KO].

Muhammad Ali [HW: 56-5(1); 37 KO].


Remember, I need your help too...

"Clean" or not, it's an historical fact. Both guy's wives complained that their husbands knocked them around a bit . . . although Corbett's wife later recanted her statement.

The name "Gentleman Jim Corbett" is one of the biggest oxymorons in boxing!

I'm not arguing with you on that (especially if you are an attorney - lol). Look at the big picture and try to remember that not everyone can understand facts as you or me.

If I put that in my book and it offends a lady who thinks that I am comparing winning championships and knocking boxers out to slapping one's wife around (as if it is an accomplishment) I'll have every woman's group up in arms (and rightfully so) trying to get as many individuals and organizations to boycott my work.

Now, if you are an attorney and willing to offer your services "pro bono" and knowing that even bad publicity can be a good thing, maybe I'll put that in - don't reply to that (I'm just kidding).

As for a false nickname, how about “Iron” for a boxer with five career stoppage losses - one to an ex-cruiserweight champion? Let’s see if David Haye can repeat history – I saw an interview with Barry McGuigan on BBC News earlier today and Barry said that he believes that Haye will kayo Wladimir in the middle rounds.

....what about the grassy knoll?

Believe it or not - I have an article in my book about the JFK assassination (obvious details that no one has ever seen or spoken about) but needless to say I can't discuss any particulars.

Here are some added extras (plus I’ve updated the previous posts with Corbett/Tyson and near identical records).

The three most notable “Sugar” boxers in history are Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard and Shane Mosley.

What are some similarities or oddities (other than the name “Sugar”) that they share?

Robinson and Leonard are both born in the month of May on the east coast of the U.S. – Mosley is born in the month of September on the west coast of the U.S.

Robinson’s and Leonard’s first major world title is a welterweight crown – Mosley’s first major world title is a lightweight crown.

Robinson’s and Leonard’s first decision losses (to LaMotta for Robinson; to Duran for Leonard) are multiple times avenged – Mosley’s first decision loss (to Forrest) is never avenged.

All three "Sugars" win world titles in multiple (historic) weight divisions – Robinson (WW, MW and nearly LHW), Leonard (WW, MW and LHW) and Mosley (LW and WW).

Robinson and Leonard each suffer only one ill-fated career stoppage loss – Mosley has yet to suffer a career stoppage loss.

In 1949, Robinson wins a world welterweight title bout by defeating Latin American star boxer Kid Gavilan (real name Gerardo Gonzalez) – it is Gavilan’s first career 15 round decision loss.

Thirty years later (in 1979), Leonard wins a world welterweight title bout by stopping Latin American star boxer Wilfred Benitez – it is Benitez’s first career stoppage loss.

Thirty years later (in 2009), Mosley wins a wins a world welterweight title bout by stopping Latin American star boxer Antonio Margarito – it is Margarito’s first career stoppage loss.

Between Leonard and Mosley – Leonard defeats the father (Floyd Mayweather Sr.) but Mosley loses to the son (Floyd Mayweather Jr.).

Hall-of-Fame Bonus:

World Boxing Hall-of-Famer Bennie Briscoe engages in a trilogy with 2-time world MW champion Rodrigo Valdez; Briscoe loses all three bouts – one loss is via stoppage (the only one of his career). The superior Valdez, however, has yet to be recognized by either boxing Hall-of-Fame (World/International).

Bennie Briscoe’s career record: [WW-MW: 66-24(1); 53 KO].

Rodrigo Valdez’s career record: [LW-MW: 63-8(1); 42 KO].

World Boxing Hall-of-Famer George Chuvalo engages in a trilogy with 2-time Canadian HW champion Bob Cleroux; Chuvalo loses two out of the three bouts – all three bouts go the distance. Chuvalo is noted for his durability and despite having only two career stoppage losses (to Frazier and Foreman), Chuvalo is never knocked down in his entire career. The superior Cleroux, however, never even has a career stoppage loss and is completely ignored by the Hall-of-Fame committees.

George Chuvalo’s career record: [HW: 73-18(2); 64 KO].

Bob Cleroux’s career record: [HW: 48-6(0); 38 KO].

Note: Certain future Hall-of-Famer Evander Holyfield engages in a trilogy with 2-time world HW champion Riddick Bowe; Holyfield loses two out of the three bouts – including suffering his first defeat and later, his first stoppage loss; the one ‘loss’ in the series for Bowe is highly controversial since the punch stats (landed) are in his favor – it is the only ‘loss’ of his career. The superior Bowe, however, will likely be ignored by the Hall-of-Fame committees – just as the aforementioned Valdez and Cleroux.

Evander Holyfield’s career record: [LHW-HW: 44-10(2); 29 KO].

Riddick Bowe’s career record: [HW: 43-1(0); 33 KO].

Another added extra:

Ray Leonard [10 letters in his name] – Roy Jones Jr. [10 letters in his name].

Leonard is born in the state of North Carolina [east coast of the U.S.] – Jones Jr. is born in the state of Florida [east coast of the U.S.].

Leonard [1976 Olympic gold medalist] – with a fair decision, Roy Jones Jr. [1988 Olympic gold medalist].

Leonard [a world champion in three historic weight divisions] – Jones Jr. [a world champion in three historic weight divisions].

Leonard’s first loss is to a boxer named Roberto [seven letters in his first name] – Jones Jr.’s first loss is to a boxer named Montell [seven letters in his first name].

Both Leonard and Jones Jr. avenge their first defeats with a KO/TKO win.

Leonard is the first to stop a champion/boxer named Ayub Kalule [10 letters in his name] – Jones Jr. is the first to stop a champion/boxer named Virgil Hill [10 letters in his name].

Leonard becomes an undisputed champion by defeating a champion named Thomas [six letters in his first name] – Jones Jr. becomes an undisputed champion by defeating a champion named Reggie [six letters in his first name].

Leonard wins a world championship bout via a controversial decision over a boxer named Hagler [six letters in his last name] – Jones Jr. wins a world championship bout via a controversial decision over a boxer named Tarver [six letters in his last name].

Leonard has a stoppage loss to a boxer named Camacho [seven letters in his last name] – Jones Jr. has a stoppage loss to a boxer named Johnson [seven letters in his last name].

Leonard is named 1980s fighter of the decade [by noted publications] – Jones Jr. is named 1990s fighter of the decade [by noted publications].

You put your finger on a lot of stuff. People tend to look for patterns in the stream of events. Do you see any pattern emerging from this?

Yes Mr. Second God (it looks as though you were posting just as I was - check out the Leonard/Jones Jr. post in case you missed it). By the way, in November of 1988, Leonard fought a LHW match against Don Lalonde [10 letters in his name] – in November of 2008, Jones Jr. fought a LHW match against Joe Calzaghe [11 letters in his name] – since the letter number (and outcomes) are different, I could not use it.

As far as any pattern emerging from this, I’m sure you have heard the saying “History repeats itself” - it is quite true (in many respects - although, it is not always a coincidence) - this requires a long conversation (or post) but if you check out my book (that is about much more than just boxing - a mere hobby of mine) all of your vital questions will be answered.

For example: The greatest question (with vital corroborating evidence) in history - the Universe, its origin and development and all of the philosophical, scientific and historical aspects that go along with this inquiry [it is all in the book]; it is a complex inquiry with simple answers - hence, the book title Complex/Simplicity.

kal.majeed wrote:Yes Mr. Second God (it looks as though you were posting just as I was - check out the Leonard/Jones Jr. post in case you missed it). By the way, in November of 1988, Leonard fought a LHW match against Don Lalonde [10 letters in his name] – in November of 2008, Jones Jr. fought a LHW match against Joe Calzaghe [11 letters in his name] – since the letter number (and outcomes) are different, I could not use it.

As far as any pattern emerging from this, I’m sure you have heard the saying “History repeats itself” - it is quite true (in many respects - although, it is not always a coincidence) - this requires a long conversation (or post) but if you check out my book (that is about much more than just boxing - a mere hobby of mine) all of your vital questions will be answered.

For example: The greatest question (with vital corroborating evidence) in history - the Universe, its origin and development and all of the philosophical, scientific and historical aspects that go along with this inquiry [it is all in the book]; it is a complex inquiry with simple answers - hence, the book title Complex/Simplicity.

Aah a unified conspiracy theory. People have been trying to make sense of things for a long time. So far everyone is still confused.

Will it be available through Amazon? It sounds like an immense project.

All the details are far from being finalized but Amazon availability is a must!

You stated: "Aah a unified conspiracy theory. People have been trying to make sense of things for a long time. So far everyone is still confused."

My friend, you do not know the half of it - many think that they know the answers, when, in fact, they do not begin to know the questions (not that I have all the answers either).

You stated: "It sounds like an immense project."

Again, you do not know the half of it - I've been like a man possessed to put these elements together - three decades of research.

Unfortunately, with so many folks out there in a state of delusion, many may not fully or even partly understand it (and I've made it as simple as possible - just as the given examples).

I think you may be among the small percentage that may fully understand (and appreciate) it...

The Second God wrote:

kal.majeed wrote:Yes Mr. Second God (it looks as though you were posting just as I was - check out the Leonard/Jones Jr. post in case you missed it). By the way, in November of 1988, Leonard fought a LHW match against Don Lalonde [10 letters in his name] – in November of 2008, Jones Jr. fought a LHW match against Joe Calzaghe [11 letters in his name] – since the letter number (and outcomes) are different, I could not use it.

As far as any pattern emerging from this, I’m sure you have heard the saying “History repeats itself” - it is quite true (in many respects - although, it is not always a coincidence) - this requires a long conversation (or post) but if you check out my book (that is about much more than just boxing - a mere hobby of mine) all of your vital questions will be answered.

For example: The greatest question (with vital corroborating evidence) in history - the Universe, its origin and development and all of the philosophical, scientific and historical aspects that go along with this inquiry [it is all in the book]; it is a complex inquiry with simple answers - hence, the book title Complex/Simplicity.

Aah a unified conspiracy theory. People have been trying to make sense of things for a long time. So far everyone is still confused.

Will it be available through Amazon? It sounds like an immense project.

Writing projects are far more easy to conceive than to pull off. You have your work cut out for you. Are you including the Hindu hypothesis in your outlook? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb37fqE5 ... re=related

It's ironic that you would send me that link, my ancestral background is Indian (and Chinese) and yes my work is heavily influenced by the ‘ancients’ – specifically Egyptian, Indian and Greek but also it combines modern scientific data (my father, by the way, is a former physics professor).

I guess now you have a little more insight into my work.

Now, look carefully at the boxing data that I have presented – is it not all information that has been basically sitting there for years (or decades).

What have I really done? Have I not just assembled the pieces together so that it forms a picture – just as one does when putting together a jigsaw puzzle?

Believe it or not, that is my work in a “snapshot” – just merely putting the pieces together to form a picture that everyone can understand – and that is of substance (i.e. backed up with proof).

kal.majeed wrote:It's ironic that you would send me that link, my ancestral background is Indian (and Chinese) and yes my work is heavily influenced by the ‘ancients’ – specifically Egyptian, Indian and Greek but also it combines modern scientific data (my father, by the way, is a former physics professor).

I guess now you have a little more insight into my work.

Now, look carefully at the boxing data that I have presented – is it not all information that has been basically sitting there for years (or decades).

What have I really done? Have I not just assembled the pieces together so that it forms a picture – just as one does when putting together a jigsaw puzzle?

Believe it or not, that is my work in a “snapshot” – just merely putting the pieces together to form a picture that everyone can understand – and that is of substance (i.e. backed up with proof).

With all due respect I do not see anything but one event and another event and another event. I see no connections whatever. All understanding is subjective. Like thinking Frazier would lose to Marcianio.

You stated: "With all due respect I do not see anything but one event and another event and another event. I see no connections whatever."

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle aka Sherlock Holmes: "The world is full of obvious facts that no person by any chance ever observes."

For example: Did you see the connections between Corbett and Tyson; between the "Sugars"; between Leonard and Jones Jr.; the near identical records and so on...??

You (and all others) are not seeing what is staring you right in the face - this is good or I would not have a book to write...

Everyone misses the obvious, my friend; I’ll make a deal with you – if you buy my book and do NOT like what you read (in general – boxing or otherwise) – I’ll apologize (in public) for wasting your time and refund DOUBLE your money – sound fair???

kal.majeed wrote:You stated: "With all due respect I do not see anything but one event and another event and another event. I see no connections whatever."

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle aka Sherlock Holmes: "The world is full of obvious facts that no person by any chance ever observes."

For example: Did you see the connections between Corbett and Tyson; between the "Sugars"; between Leonard and Jones Jr.; the near identical records and so on...??

You (and all others) are not seeing what is staring you right in the face - this is good or I would not have a book to write...

Everyone misses the obvious, my friend; I’ll make a deal with you – if you buy my book and do NOT like what you read (in general – boxing or otherwise) – I’ll apologize (in public) for wasting your time and refund DOUBLE your money – sound fair???

I can see how the numbers are the same and incidents ressemble one another. I do not find that out of the ordinary.

But I know nothing about numerology. Let me know when you get it up and running and if I'm alive and not broke I'll buy it. I'm sure I'll read it with interest.

My personal feeling is that life as a human is fundamentally meaningless so finding meaning in anything is difficult. Correlating incidents is like trying to describe the flowing of a current in a river.

There is meaning and significance in EVERY event – again, it is just that many, most or all do not see the obvious – in and about all general topics and fields…

Life is NOT meaningless – everyone has infinite potential, only limited by one’s knowledge, understanding, desire and imagination…

...all of you missed the most obvious similarity between tyson and corbett....their striking physical resemblance ....

Klitschko vs. Haye (2011) – already written in history? Let us take a closer look…

Wladimir [8 letters], Klitschko [9 letters] – total of 17 letters; birth first name Volodymyr [9 letters].

David [5 letters], Haye [4 letters] – total of 9 letters; alias “Hayemaker” [9 letters].

Remember, this can work in any order (first or last) or in a combination.

Okay everyone, buckle up, we are about to time travel!

One hundred and ten years ago (1901), “The Boilermaker” Jim [17 letters] successfully defends his world HW title (TKO 6) over Gus Ruhlin [9 letters].

One hundred years ago (1911), Langford [8 letters] aka “Boston Bonecrusher” [17 letters] successfully defends his world colored HW title (NWS 10) over Jeannette [9 letters].

Ninety years ago (1921), “Black Panther” Wills [17 letters] successfully defends his world colored HW title (TKO 6) over Tate [4 letters].

Eighty years ago (1931), Schmeling [9 letters] successfully defends his world HW title (TKO 15) over Stribling [9 letters].

Seventy years ago (1941), “The Brown Bomber” Joe [17 letters] aka Joseph Louis Barrow [17 letters] successfully defends his world HW title (DQ 7) over Buddy Bear [9 letters] AND later that same year, successfully defends his world HW title (KO 13) over Billy Conn [9 letters].

Sixty years ago (1951), Ezzard Mack Charles [17 letters] successfully defends his world HW title (UD 15) over Walcott – birth last name Cream [5 letters] aka “Jersey Joe” [9 letters]; later that same year, however, the result reverses as Cream aka “Jersey Joe” (KO 7) Ezzard Mack Charles.

Fifty years ago (1961), Patterson [9 letters] successfully defends his world HW title (KO 5) over Johansson [9 letters].

Forty years ago (1971), “Smokin” Joe [9 letters] successfully defends his world HW title (UD 15) over Ali – birth last name Clay [4 letters].

Thirty years ago (1981), Larry Holmes aka "The Easton Assassin" [17 letters] successfully defends his world HW title (TKO 3) over Neon/Leon [4 letters each].

Twenty years ago (1991), Holyfield [9 letters] successfully defends his world HW title (TKO 7) over Bert [4 letters].

Ten years ago (2001), John/Ruiz [4 letters each] wins the world HW title (UD 12) over defending champion Holyfield [9 letters]; later that same year, John/Ruiz [4 letters each] retains his world HW title (D 12) over Holyfield [9 letters].

Message to Haye: It does not look good for you tomorrow night!

Message to Klitschko: Pay attention to years 1951 and 2001 – there is room (however small) for an upset!

Note: Fifteen years ago (1996), Mike Tyson [9 letters] loses his world HW title via stoppage (TKO 11) to a former world cruiserweight champion in Holyfield [9 letters]. Also, in 1985/1986 former world LHW champion Michael Spinks aka "Jinx" [4 letters] posts upset decision wins (UD/SD 15) over Larry Holmes aka “The Easton Assassin” [17 letters]. As well, in 1926/1927, former American LHW champion Gene Tunney aka “The Fighting Marine” [17 letters] posts upset decision wins (two UD 10 wins) over “Manassa Mauler” Jack [17 letters]. Finally, in 1897, former world MW champion Bob Fitzsimmons aka “Fitz” [4 letters] aka “The Freckled Wonder” [17 letters] post an upset and come-from-behind kayo win (KO 14) over James J. Corbett aka “Gentleman” [9 letters].

UPDATE:

In 2011, Wladimir Klitschko [17 letters] – birth first name Volodymyr [9 letters] unifies the IBF, WBO, WBA and IBO world heavyweight titles by defeating (UD 12) David Haye [9 letters] aka “Hayemaker” [9 letters].

kal.majeed wrote:The three most notable “Sugar” boxers in history are Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard and Shane Mosley.

There is a fourth boxer known as sugar who is comparable in fame Ultiminio Ramos (Featherweight champion 1963-65).

Brett Paul Dunbar wrote:

kal.majeed wrote:The three most notable “Sugar” boxers in history are Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard and Shane Mosley.

There is a fourth boxer known as sugar who is comparable in fame Ultiminio Ramos (Featherweight champion 1963-65).

True and I do have him listed/ranked in my book - along with over 450 other 'greats' who fought in the 'gloved era' from approximately 1880-2010 but with four career stoppage losses – first to Saldivar and then (up in weight) twice to C. Ortiz – Sugar Ramos has more career stoppage losses than those other three “Sugars” (combined). Actually, Ramos has twice as many.

Not to mention, Sugar Ramos has no first stoppage wins over any of the top champions of his division(s) or era. Two of the best wins of his career are his two decision wins (1962 PTS 10 and 1963 UD 15) over the little known, never stopped but highly formidable boxer from Nigeria – Rafiu King. King has two stoppage wins (1959 KO 4 and 1961 TKO 6) over French and European FW Champion Gracieux Lamperti. In his final year as a professional (and second to last bout) Rafiu King becomes the first to stop (1967 KO 5) future British super FW champion Jimmy Anderson; hence, Sugar Ramos’s two decision wins over a high performing King earns him a ‘ranking’…