BoxRec

It seemed like a big crush when he made his way into the ring, and the Klitschko one was a cake walk in comparrison? Was this deliberate do you think or just a miscalculation by the security gards?

Just brit dickhead fans..theres a limit to what security is capable of but certainly it was poor organization as well.

Perhaps the troublemakers who went after Haye had already been dealt with by the time Wlad entered.

They went different routes. Haye seemed to go down a narrow corridor right in with the fans while Wlad went a long way round with the fans separated by barriers. Haye says in this article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/ju ... -klitschko) that he wasn't allowed his own security and that Wlads people directed him down the wrong route.

I remarked while watching that it was p1ss poor organisation at the very least and potentially dangerous. Its all well and good trying to get one over on the opposition, but if Haye had suffered a fight ending injury during the ringwalk it would have been disastrous for the fight and the promoters and would have made Wlad look very foolish indeed. I thought it was pretty pathetic.

from where i was sat i couldn't see that well really, but are you sure they were trouble makers? looked like over excited people just trying to get close to him from where i was.....

Did it show anything on the TV?

Poor security and a complete lack of decent barriers it looked to me.

Also, it appeared on TV what Wlad went a slightly different way to the ring than Haye.

For all the talk about the efficiency of the Germans it appears that they got this and the transport away from the arena in a bit of a mess.

I just rewatched the entrances and they did go different routes. I didn't even notice when I watched it live.

Haye mentioned in an interview yesterday that he was told not to bring any extra security but he took 10 staff who helped him make his way to the ring. Wlad came down the official barricaded entrance whilst Haye was made to walk through the crowd.

Crazyboy wrote:from where i was sat i couldn't see that well really, but are you sure they were trouble makers? looked like over excited people just trying to get close to him from where i was.....

Did it show anything on the TV?

they had a "horrible pudenda, wackers youth" flag, so i assume they weren't from millwall's WI

There is no point blaming Wlad's camp or German security.

If British 'fans' can't behave themselves at these events then there are always going to be risks to the competitors.

Wlad's previous 50-odd opponents haven't encountered these problems - and thats because the ring walks have not previously been full of drunk british football fans who can't seem to realise that grabbing the boxer you are meant to be supporting isn't helping him!

Sending Haye a different route is just fun and games. The fact is he was being manhandled by his own idiotic fans.

Haye complaining about this is just another one of his incredibly long list of tired excuses.

Edit: I'd also add that the same fans were throwing things at Wlad on his way to the ring. You could see it on tv. Did Wlad complain about that? Every time Haye adds another excuse to his list makes this whole sorry episode more embarrassing imo.

I remember Haye being entirely engulfed by punters at one point. He went into the mass of people smiling and then popped out on the other side looking as though he'd been molested.

It makes no odds though. As bad as that was, as bad as the ref was, as ineffective and as Haye's gameplan was, as messed up as his foot might've been... Haye still lost, and nobody's going to remember anything but the big picture, fixating on small details (however major an effect they might've had on the outcome) can only be read one way. Sour grapes.

On the other hand, if Haye had've been the perfect gent and hadn't gone hell for leather setting himself up for a fall, a lot more people might be sympathetic about the small stuff.

mkirkhope wrote:There is no point blaming Wlad's camp or German security.

If British 'fans' can't behave themselves at these events then there are always going to be risks to the competitors.

Wlad's previous 50-odd opponents haven't encountered these problems - and thats because the ring walks have not previously been full of drunk british football fans who can't seem to realise that grabbing the boxer you are meant to be supporting isn't helping him!

Sending Haye a different route is just fun and games. The fact is he was being manhandled by his own idiotic fans.

Haye complaining about this is just another one of his incredibly long list of tired excuses.

Edit: I'd also add that the same fans were throwing things at Wlad on his way to the ring. You could see it on tv. Did Wlad complain about that? Every time Haye adds another excuse to his list makes this whole sorry episode more embarrassing imo.

You're a naive idiot. This wasn't about the fans it was about the route that the away fighter was forced to take which was different to the route that the home fighter was allowed. There was no trouble, just zero segregation of the fans (both UK and non-UK) from Haye with large numbers wanting to pat Haye on the back and get their mugs on TV. Not malicious, just excitable. And these were the fans in the VIP seats, unlikely to be the drunk british football fans who filled out the cheap seats.

Look at any other sport - does Rafa Nadal make his way through the seats to the court for the Wimbledon final? Do Barcelona emerge on to the pitch from the terraces of the Camp Nou? No. Wlads 50-odd previous opponents didn't encounter these problems because they went the same, segregated route as Wlad. If it wasn't an issue why did Wlad go a separate route? They emerged from the same tunnel.

earsjohn wrote:

mkirkhope wrote:There is no point blaming Wlad's camp or German security.

If British 'fans' can't behave themselves at these events then there are always going to be risks to the competitors.

Wlad's previous 50-odd opponents haven't encountered these problems - and thats because the ring walks have not previously been full of drunk british football fans who can't seem to realise that grabbing the boxer you are meant to be supporting isn't helping him!

Sending Haye a different route is just fun and games. The fact is he was being manhandled by his own idiotic fans.

Haye complaining about this is just another one of his incredibly long list of tired excuses.

Edit: I'd also add that the same fans were throwing things at Wlad on his way to the ring. You could see it on tv. Did Wlad complain about that? Every time Haye adds another excuse to his list makes this whole sorry episode more embarrassing imo.

You're a naive idiot. This wasn't about the fans it was about the route that the away fighter was forced to take which was different to the route that the home fighter was allowed. There was no trouble, just zero segregation of the fans (both UK and non-UK) from Haye with large numbers wanting to pat Haye on the back and get their mugs on TV. Not malicious, just excitable. And these were the fans in the VIP seats, unlikely to be the drunk british football fans who filled out the cheap seats.

Look at any other sport - does Rafa Nadal make his way through the seats to the court for the Wimbledon final? Do Barcelona emerge on to the pitch from the terraces of the Camp Nou? No. Wlads 50-odd previous opponents didn't encounter these problems because they went the same, segregated route as Wlad. If it wasn't an issue why did Wlad go a separate route? They emerged from the same tunnel.

Instead of calling me an idiot, explain to me why fans (if they were also non-UK) which throughout Wlads career have been well behaved suddenly started grabbing Haye round the neck etc and throwing objects at Wlads head when he was walking to the ring? You know as well as I do that it was the british fans behaving like that - one of the main culprits was brandishing a union jack from what you could see on the tv. The objects thrown at Wlads head came from quite far away - were the security guards meant to stop that also? We keep hearing on here that 'German fans just sit politely and clap'. So why did they go from that behaviour to attacking a boxer coming to the ring?

And it's time we stopped calling these morons just 'excitable'. Was booing the anthems also excitable? Was singing disgusting songs about the war just excitable? The people that behave in this way are an embarrasment to the UK and to the fans that go abroad to watch boxing. It's time the media stopped defending them or even praising them. We need to stop the 'we'll behave like drunken idiots and its your fault if you don't stop us' mentality.

And they really were just 'patting Haye on the back'? They were being quite aggressive and Haye clearly looked annoyed with some of it. One of them was physically pulling him back!

Being sent a different route isn't even on the scale of worst tricks that have been played on away fighters.

mkirkhope wrote:

earsjohn wrote:

mkirkhope wrote:There is no point blaming Wlad's camp or German security.

If British 'fans' can't behave themselves at these events then there are always going to be risks to the competitors.

Wlad's previous 50-odd opponents haven't encountered these problems - and thats because the ring walks have not previously been full of drunk british football fans who can't seem to realise that grabbing the boxer you are meant to be supporting isn't helping him!

Sending Haye a different route is just fun and games. The fact is he was being manhandled by his own idiotic fans.

Haye complaining about this is just another one of his incredibly long list of tired excuses.

Edit: I'd also add that the same fans were throwing things at Wlad on his way to the ring. You could see it on tv. Did Wlad complain about that? Every time Haye adds another excuse to his list makes this whole sorry episode more embarrassing imo.

You're a naive idiot. This wasn't about the fans it was about the route that the away fighter was forced to take which was different to the route that the home fighter was allowed. There was no trouble, just zero segregation of the fans (both UK and non-UK) from Haye with large numbers wanting to pat Haye on the back and get their mugs on TV. Not malicious, just excitable. And these were the fans in the VIP seats, unlikely to be the drunk british football fans who filled out the cheap seats.

Look at any other sport - does Rafa Nadal make his way through the seats to the court for the Wimbledon final? Do Barcelona emerge on to the pitch from the terraces of the Camp Nou? No. Wlads 50-odd previous opponents didn't encounter these problems because they went the same, segregated route as Wlad. If it wasn't an issue why did Wlad go a separate route? They emerged from the same tunnel.

Instead of calling me an idiot, explain to me why fans (if they were also non-UK) which throughout Wlads career have been well behaved suddenly started grabbing Haye round the neck etc and throwing objects at Wlads head when he was walking to the ring? You know as well as I do that it was the british fans behaving like that - one of the main culprits was brandishing a union jack from what you could see on the tv. The objects thrown at Wlads head came from quite far away - were the security guards meant to stop that also?

And it's time we stopped calling these morons just 'excitable'. Was booing the anthems also excitable? Was singing disgusting songs about the war just excitable? The people that behave in this way are an embarrasment to the UK and to the fans that go abroad to watch boxing. It's time the media stopped defending them or even praising them. We need to stop the 'we'll behave like drunken idiots and its your fault if you don't stop us' mentality.

And they really were just 'patting Haye on the back'? They were being quite aggressive and Haye clearly looked annoyed with some of it. One of them was physically pulling him back!

Being sent a different route isn't even on the scale of worst tricks that have been played on away fighters.

They were grabbing Haye because they were able to do so. In previous fights, the fights and the fans have been segregated, in exactly the same way that Wlad was segregated.

I don't KNOW that it was the British fans. You are saying that because of the reputation of British football fans abroad. I don't recall the British fans acting in a similar manner when following Ricky and Joe in the US or following David in France or Germany (against Valuev).

I wasn't in the arena and am only going on what I saw on TV which was a lot of crowding, a mini-surge towards Haye and his team as they walked, but not a malicious attempt to get to Haye and attack him. He was rightly annoyed as he shouldn't have been in a position where 10 minutes before the biggest fight of his career he was surrounded by people he didn't know, acting unpredictably. It is irrelevant what nationality they were, he simply shouldn't have been in a position where it was an issue.

And I will say again, if it wasn't an issue, why did Wlad go the way with the segregation?

MachoMan09 wrote:

earsjohn wrote:

mkirkhope wrote: Instead of calling me an idiot, explain to me why fans (if they were also non-UK) which throughout Wlads career have been well behaved suddenly started grabbing Haye round the neck etc and throwing objects at Wlads head when he was walking to the ring? You know as well as I do that it was the british fans behaving like that - one of the main culprits was brandishing a union jack from what you could see on the tv. The objects thrown at Wlads head came from quite far away - were the security guards meant to stop that also?

And it's time we stopped calling these morons just 'excitable'. Was booing the anthems also excitable? Was singing disgusting songs about the war just excitable? The people that behave in this way are an embarrasment to the UK and to the fans that go abroad to watch boxing. It's time the media stopped defending them or even praising them. We need to stop the 'we'll behave like drunken idiots and its your fault if you don't stop us' mentality.

And they really were just 'patting Haye on the back'? They were being quite aggressive and Haye clearly looked annoyed with some of it. One of them was physically pulling him back!

Being sent a different route isn't even on the scale of worst tricks that have been played on away fighters.

They were grabbing Haye because they were able to do so. In previous fights, the fights and the fans have been segregated, in exactly the same way that Wlad was segregated.

I don't KNOW that it was the British fans. You are saying that because of the reputation of British football fans abroad. I don't recall the British fans acting in a similar manner when following Ricky and Joe in the US or following David in France or Germany (against Valuev).

I wasn't in the arena and am only going on what I saw on TV which was a lot of crowding, a mini-surge towards Haye and his team as they walked, but not a malicious attempt to get to Haye and attack him. He was rightly annoyed as he shouldn't have been in a position where 10 minutes before the biggest fight of his career he was surrounded by people he didn't know, acting unpredictably. It is irrelevant what nationality they were, he simply shouldn't have been in a position where it was an issue.

And I will say again, if it wasn't an issue, why did Wlad go the way with the segregation?

Because Wlad chose in advance to go down a more segregated route whereas Haye chose in advance to get closer to the people? Haye has a security team. It is part of their job and a responsibility to their employer to make sure the ring walk is right for him and that the promoters and venue have put in the appropriate safeguards. Simple.

Simple?

"[There were] lots of little things in the build‑up, silly little things, but it has a bearing. For instance, when we came out on the ring walk we thought we were going to go down the path with the barriers but for some reason we were directed by his people to walk down the crowd. They tried to tell us we couldn't bring our own security, and made a song and dance about it. But we insisted on it and if I hadn't had my security I would have been squashed."

During the ring walk, Haye was manhandled by some in the crowd. "I had people trampling on my toe on the way to the ring," the 30-year-old said. "Why didn't they send us the right way, through the barricades? They did it to unsettle me. I tried to put it to the back of my mind."

funny, macho, as it was all transpiring on haye's walk to the ring, a mate said it looks like Haye's 'security' team are basically your typical bodybuilder/meathead types who clearly hadn't got a handle on the situation

and hes a chef, so he knows what hes talking about.

earsjohn wrote:

mkirkhope wrote:

earsjohn wrote: You're a naive idiot. This wasn't about the fans it was about the route that the away fighter was forced to take which was different to the route that the home fighter was allowed. There was no trouble, just zero segregation of the fans (both UK and non-UK) from Haye with large numbers wanting to pat Haye on the back and get their mugs on TV. Not malicious, just excitable. And these were the fans in the VIP seats, unlikely to be the drunk british football fans who filled out the cheap seats.

Look at any other sport - does Rafa Nadal make his way through the seats to the court for the Wimbledon final? Do Barcelona emerge on to the pitch from the terraces of the Camp Nou? No. Wlads 50-odd previous opponents didn't encounter these problems because they went the same, segregated route as Wlad. If it wasn't an issue why did Wlad go a separate route? They emerged from the same tunnel.

Instead of calling me an idiot, explain to me why fans (if they were also non-UK) which throughout Wlads career have been well behaved suddenly started grabbing Haye round the neck etc and throwing objects at Wlads head when he was walking to the ring? You know as well as I do that it was the british fans behaving like that - one of the main culprits was brandishing a union jack from what you could see on the tv. The objects thrown at Wlads head came from quite far away - were the security guards meant to stop that also?

And it's time we stopped calling these morons just 'excitable'. Was booing the anthems also excitable? Was singing disgusting songs about the war just excitable? The people that behave in this way are an embarrasment to the UK and to the fans that go abroad to watch boxing. It's time the media stopped defending them or even praising them. We need to stop the 'we'll behave like drunken idiots and its your fault if you don't stop us' mentality.

And they really were just 'patting Haye on the back'? They were being quite aggressive and Haye clearly looked annoyed with some of it. One of them was physically pulling him back!

Being sent a different route isn't even on the scale of worst tricks that have been played on away fighters.

They were grabbing Haye because they were able to do so. In previous fights, the fights and the fans have been segregated, in exactly the same way that Wlad was segregated.

I don't KNOW that it was the British fans. You are saying that because of the reputation of British football fans abroad. I don't recall the British fans acting in a similar manner when following Ricky and Joe in the US or following David in France or Germany (against Valuev).

I wasn't in the arena and am only going on what I saw on TV which was a lot of crowding, a mini-surge towards Haye and his team as they walked, but not a malicious attempt to get to Haye and attack him. He was rightly annoyed as he shouldn't have been in a position where 10 minutes before the biggest fight of his career he was surrounded by people he didn't know, acting unpredictably. It is irrelevant what nationality they were, he simply shouldn't have been in a position where it was an issue.

And I will say again, if it wasn't an issue, why did Wlad go the way with the segregation?

Wlad could have sent Haye another route for many reasons: to confuse him, to get him cold (if it was much further than Wlad's route), to get him wet in the heavy rain, etc etc. These games have been played throughout boxing history. I'll say it again - if the british fans hadn't mobbed Haye then going a different route wouldn't have been a problem for Haye. And to me it looked like Haye's route did have segregation anyway - its not like he was pushing through a crowd of punters all the way to the ring. If six security guards and some railings can't protect Haye from his fans, then the fans are clearly doing more than 'just patting him on the back'.

I'm not basing this on the reputation of football fans at all - but we all know that the crowd going abroad to watch british fighters changed during the Hatton era. That is a fact. Now we have booing of anthems, singing songs about the war, etc.

Which set of fans were throwing objects at Wlad as he walked to the ring then? Was that the German fans also? Should security have intercepted those objects mid-air to keep Wlad safe? There is only so much security can do when morons are around. And the guy grabbing Haye with the Union Jack - was he an undercover German holding our flag as a disguise?

And you know the Mormeck fight etc attracted nowhere near this amount of travelling fans from the UK who know very little about boxing as this one did, so its not really fair to say 'this behaviour didn't happen then'. A more fair comparison is surely the huge crowds the brothers get regularly in Germany who always show the opponent respect.

Loads of tricks are played on away fighters. This isn't the first time an away fighter has travelled a different route to the ring.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

And there is no point using quotes from Haye to explain exactly what happened - otherwise you'd have to take all the other excuses/nonsense he says as gospel. How do you know his account of security is what actually happened?

not more excuses... it was windier and more rainy that way....good job he didn't get the sun in his eyes

mkirkhope wrote:

earsjohn wrote:

mkirkhope wrote: Instead of calling me an idiot, explain to me why fans (if they were also non-UK) which throughout Wlads career have been well behaved suddenly started grabbing Haye round the neck etc and throwing objects at Wlads head when he was walking to the ring? You know as well as I do that it was the british fans behaving like that - one of the main culprits was brandishing a union jack from what you could see on the tv. The objects thrown at Wlads head came from quite far away - were the security guards meant to stop that also?

And it's time we stopped calling these morons just 'excitable'. Was booing the anthems also excitable? Was singing disgusting songs about the war just excitable? The people that behave in this way are an embarrasment to the UK and to the fans that go abroad to watch boxing. It's time the media stopped defending them or even praising them. We need to stop the 'we'll behave like drunken idiots and its your fault if you don't stop us' mentality.

And they really were just 'patting Haye on the back'? They were being quite aggressive and Haye clearly looked annoyed with some of it. One of them was physically pulling him back!

Being sent a different route isn't even on the scale of worst tricks that have been played on away fighters.

They were grabbing Haye because they were able to do so. In previous fights, the fights and the fans have been segregated, in exactly the same way that Wlad was segregated.

I don't KNOW that it was the British fans. You are saying that because of the reputation of British football fans abroad. I don't recall the British fans acting in a similar manner when following Ricky and Joe in the US or following David in France or Germany (against Valuev).

I wasn't in the arena and am only going on what I saw on TV which was a lot of crowding, a mini-surge towards Haye and his team as they walked, but not a malicious attempt to get to Haye and attack him. He was rightly annoyed as he shouldn't have been in a position where 10 minutes before the biggest fight of his career he was surrounded by people he didn't know, acting unpredictably. It is irrelevant what nationality they were, he simply shouldn't have been in a position where it was an issue.

And I will say again, if it wasn't an issue, why did Wlad go the way with the segregation?

Wlad could have sent Haye another route for many reasons: to confuse him, to get him cold (if it was much further than Wlad's route), to get him wet in the heavy rain, etc etc. These games have been played throughout boxing history. I'll say it again - if the british fans hadn't mobbed Haye then going a different route wouldn't have been a problem for Haye. And to me it looked like Haye's route did have segregation anyway - its not like he was pushing through a crowd of punters all the way to the ring. If six security guards and some railings can't protect Haye from his fans, then the fans are clearly doing more than 'just patting him on the back'.

I'm not basing this on the reputation of football fans at all - but we all know that the crowd going abroad to watch british fighters changed during the Hatton era. That is a fact. Now we have booing of anthems, singing songs about the war, etc.

Which set of fans were throwing objects at Wlad as he walked to the ring then? Was that the German fans also? Should security have intercepted those objects mid-air to keep Wlad safe? And the guy grabbing Haye with the Union Jack - was he an undercover German holding our flag as a disguise?

And you know the Mormeck fight etc attracted nowhere near this amount of travelling fans from the UK who know very little about boxing as this one did, so its not really fair to say 'this behaviour didn't happen then'. A more fair comparison is surely the huge crowds the brothers get regularly in Germany who always show the opponent respect.

Loads of tricks are played on away fighters. This isn't the first time an away fighter has travelled a different route to the ring.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

And there is no point using quotes from Haye to explain exactly what happened - otherwise you'd have to take all the other excuses/nonsense he says as gospel. How do you know his account of security is what actually happened?

I'm not trying to say this was a situation unique to this fight or that Haye was unduly affected and it had an impact on the fight. It didn't - Haye lost to the better man. What I'm trying to say is that an event of this magnitude where the action is dependent on the physical condition of its participants, something like this shouldn't have been an issue. As soon as his ringwalk started I commented to a friend that it was dangerous and completely unsuitable for an event like that.

Can you guarantee that all the fans around Haye were British? Were you with them and saw each of their passports? One holding up a Union Jack does not mean that all were British.

I couldn't care less about the booing of a national anthem. I simply don't get the anger that it causes. Maybe i'm not nationalistic enough, but to me it is just a song. Boo away, create an atmosphere. I certainly wouldn't be offended if I heard God Save the Queen booed. If anything, it would make me more determined.

Yes, loads of tricks are played on away fighters. Doesn't make it right though does it?

I remember Lewis got similar treatment, although not as bad, when he walked to the ring against Holyfield.

At one point he literally stopped and shoved some security out of the way as they were just adding to the problem then guess what happened when Holyfield came to the ring? Yep, plenty of room in which to enter!

It's all part of the game played by home fighters/promoters.
Haye brought his own security so why didnt they just tell Wlad's people to do one when asked to walk a different route and simply walk the route set out for Wlad? It's not as if the security on the night were going to try and force or be capable of forcing Haye and his security to do something they really didnt want to.

It's just a little trick, nothing too bad but should be highlighted purely for safety reasons. It was amateurish from the organisers.

Did it have an influence on the result? Of course not.

Ive got to be honest,

I've never seen such a high profile fight such as this, where the audience is literally jumping into and in front of one of the fighters during the ring walk. Whilst the other floats in with a few feet of segration either side of him.

Looked very amateur and you have to summise it was intended.

G0mez wrote:Ive got to be honest,

I've never seen such a high profile fight such as this, where the audience is literally jumping into and in front of one of the fighters during the ring walk. Whilst the other floats in with a few feet of segration either side of him.

Looked very amateur and you have to summise it was intended.

I agree that sending Haye a different way to upset him was intended but in my opinion the guys causing the trouble were from the UK and therefore if they behaved then Haye would still have had quite a simple walk to the ring. If organisers/security is to blame then equally so are Haye's fans.

Anyone who has watched boxing knows that you don't jump in front of the guy coming to the ring, or grab a fighter round the head as he's walking past. If people can't behave themselves then there is only so much you can do to guard against it. I've been to plenty fights where the fans are touching distance from the fighter or there is no segregation at all but the fans have been able to behave themselves.

The objects thrown at Wlads head could have caused every bit as much damage to the fighter as the people grabbing Haye (if not more) - and I don't see loads of people coming on here complaining about the guys throwing the objects at Wlad.

yiddo14 wrote: It's just a little trick, nothing too bad but should be highlighted purely for safety reasons. It was amateurish from the organisers.

Exactly my point. If Haye, or one of his team had been hurt, it would have been scandalous. Is this one of those situations where those in charge will wait til something goes wrong before doing something to fix it? Intelligent approach.

99.9% of security I have seen and encountered at any Boxing event have always fitted the meathead/bodybuilder description above!

The main reason for this is, genuine security experts cost money. Burly meatheads are ten a penny.

once again, they were millwall football thugs. they had a bloody flag out to announce it.