BoxRec

Is it just me or is anyone else feed up today with reading all of the negative reports on David Haye, this time last week the guy was a national hero and now almost every write up, interview and discussion regarding the fight everyone is picking on Haye, you even have a certain promoter calling for him to retire now!!!

I’m not defending Haye and yes the excuse he used after the fight was uncalled for but it’s not the first time we have heard a boxer blame a loss on something other than their own performance.

Why has everyone turned against him so quickly? The guy has to still be given credit for stepping up and fighting the best and bringing the sport back in to the mainstream, none of our other current British boxers expect Hatton have got the character to cross over from sportsman to celebrity, which in turn helps to get the non boxing fan interested in the sport.

Rant over.

cue someone saying 'thats what we do in britain we build em up to knock em down'

'prefer lovable losers like Bruno'

etc etc etc

I do understand where you're coming from, but I think you need to remember that the majority of the public won't have been intimately familar with Haye prior to the Valuev fight - they won't have known about the scraps with Mormeck etc.
Consequently, when they see and read about this guy who's the self-proclaimed saviour of the division (and elements in the media are as culpable in this as Haye himself), and then see all the pre-fight build-up and his claims of what he's going to do to Kitschko, it's hardly surprising that they feel ripped off/cheated etc.
In simple terms, most of the public haven't got the context to be able to evaluate him properly.

No it's not just you, it's annoying me too

It makes no sense to me,
Haye could have been happy defending his CW titles against knowbodys for years like Calzaghe did.
But he didnt want that he steped up a weight and challenged the best,

he fell short yes but come on give him a break.

http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/sagger ... and-quinny

Haye interview this morning. Seemed very relaxed, if a little frustrated. But is very honest in his assessment of the fight and his future. No blaming his toe, simply lost to the better man. Recognises that his mouth has got him into trouble, but that he is fronting up to his post-fight media responsibilities. Says he'd like a rematch, but the ball is in Wlads court. Sorry to the fans.

One of the problems with the post-fight interview is that is is conducted when the interviewee is in a very particular place, mentally. He has just completed 12 rounds of the toughest fight of his career and he's expected to come down from the adrenal high and be humble, apologetic. It doesn't work like that. This desire to get the comments of competitors as close to competition as possible often provides great quotes, but invariably it does not provide an accurate reflection of their thoughts.

I should add that I've just seen Haye's latest comment:
“I feel we’ve put heavyweight boxing back on the map because this fight got so many people excited."
I don't think it's clicked with him that his pre-fight talk achieved that, but his performance on the night did anything but. If anything it will have reinforced negative (mis)perceptions about boxing being boring and he has to accept a degree of responsibility for that.

For me it's the manner of the defeat. Going into the last three rounds the corner and Haye both would have known that his only way of winning the fight would be by knockout.

At no stage did Haye put it all on the line. This was his opportunity to make history and become a unified heavyweight champion. It was he who built up all the hype about how he was the saviour of the division and was going to go in and blow out Wlad with his trademark Hayemakers. If he really put everything into those last few rounds and tried to get the win, his effort would have been considered heroic, even if it meant getting stopped himself.

And if the pre fight talk was not enough, the post fight talk was sickening. Since the defeat he has blamed the toe, the referee, the judges, the ring walk, the fact that the fight is in Germany. It's disgraceful. He seemed almost proud to stand with his broken toe on show, as if it somehow crossed out the defeat he had just suffered.

He should have been coming out apologising for his behaviour before the fight and thanking Wlad for the opportunity he gave him. He is delusional and these are the reasons why people have turned against him.

h smithy wrote:Is it just me or is anyone else feed up today with reading all of the negative reports on David Haye, this time last week the guy was a national hero and now almost every write up, interview and discussion regarding the fight everyone is picking on Haye, you even have a certain promoter calling for him to retire now!!!

I’m not defending Haye and yes the excuse he used after the fight was uncalled for but it’s not the first time we have heard a boxer blame a loss on something other than their own performance.

Why has everyone turned against him so quickly? The guy has to still be given credit for stepping up and fighting the best and bringing the sport back in to the mainstream, none of our other current British boxers expect Hatton have got the character to cross over from sportsman to celebrity, which in turn helps to get the non boxing fan interested in the sport.

Rant over.

I agree.It is quite revolting some of the revised opinions a few of the journalists are now offering.

johnswan1 wrote: And if the pre fight talk was not enough, the post fight talk was sickening. Since the defeat he has blamed the toe, the referee, the judges, the ring walk, the fact that the fight is in Germany. It's disgraceful. He seemed almost proud to stand with his broken toe on show, as if it somehow crossed out the defeat he had just suffered.

He should have been coming out apologising for his behaviour before the fight and thanking Wlad for the opportunity he gave him. He is delusional and these are the reasons why people have turned against him.

The immediate post-fight talk was clearly shrouded by the disappointment of defeat and the difficulty to accept such that comes with it.

The post-fight talk that comes a few days after, once the adrenaline has worn off and time to think on the fight has been allowed has seen an honest, considered, respectful view. He acknowledges that his pre-fight boasts have created a rod for his back that his performance didn't justify, he apologised to the fans for not succeeding and has said he'd like the opportunity to right the wrongs, but concedes its Wlads choice to offer a rematch or not.

Counter-puncher wrote:cue someone saying 'thats what we do in britain we build em up to knock em down'

'prefer lovable losers like Bruno'

etc etc etc

Aye, I've never looked at Bruno as the "lovable loser" though, I view him as a trier, took his knocks and came back time and again, stepped into the ring with two modern heavyweight greats etc.

I think a lot of the scorn shown towards Haye is mainly due to him not delivering on his words, for the last 3 years we've heard he's gonna do this, gonna do that, going as far as having T-Shirts made depicting him holding Wlads head and he goes out with nothing more than a whimper.

I don't think its down to Brits liking lovable losers, it's more to do with us not liking gobshites which is what Haye is, we've all had to deal with people who give it this and give it that in our lives and we just laugh at them the only difference is they aren't heavyweight boxers but the principal is the same.

MachoMan09 wrote:Personally I feel no different about Haye than I did before Saturday's fight. But in answer to the question: many people in this country are reactionary. You could just as easily ask 'Why did people fall in love with Haye so quickly?'.

Have you ever watched The Crying Game? The protagonist, Fergus, very quickly falls hook, line and sinker for somebody who he knows next to nothing about, Dil, after hearing her sing The Crying Game. Fergus begins to pursue Dil and even protects her from an obsessive suitor. Fergus is about to shag Dil in her apartment when he discovers she's got a cock. It turns out she's a non-op tranny living as a woman. His initial reaction is of revulsion. He throws up and accidentally hits Dil in the chops, leaving her sobbing on the floor. A few days later, Fergus leaves Dil a note and they make up.

Fergus = British public
Dil = Haye
Crying Game = Haye's pre-fight chit-chat
Cock = Shocking reality

brilliant analogy, mate.

banjo wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:cue someone saying 'thats what we do in britain we build em up to knock em down'

'prefer lovable losers like Bruno'

etc etc etc

Aye, I've never looked at Bruno as the "lovable loser" though, I view him as a trier, took his knocks and came back time and again, stepped into the ring with two modern heavyweight greats etc.

I think a lot of the scorn shown towards Haye is mainly due to him not delivering on his words, for the last 3 years we've heard he's gonna do this, gonna do that, going as far as having T-Shirts made depicting him holding Wlads head and he goes out with nothing more than a whimper.

I don't think its down to Brits liking lovable losers, it's more to do with us not liking gobshites which is what Haye is, we've all had to deal with people who give it this and give it that in our lives and we just laugh at them the only difference is they aren't heavyweight boxers but the principal is the same.

i was just putting forward some of the usual kneejerk cliches, mate, basically i agree with you.

johnswan1 wrote:For me it's the manner of the defeat. Going into the last three rounds the corner and Haye both would have known that his only way of winning the fight would be by knockout.

At no stage did Haye put it all on the line. This was his opportunity to make history and become a unified heavyweight champion. It was he who built up all the hype about how he was the saviour of the division and was going to go in and blow out Wlad with his trademark Hayemakers. If he really put everything into those last few rounds and tried to get the win, his effort would have been considered heroic, even if it meant getting stopped himself.

And if the pre fight talk was not enough, the post fight talk was sickening. Since the defeat he has blamed the toe, the referee, the judges, the ring walk, the fact that the fight is in Germany. It's disgraceful. He seemed almost proud to stand with his broken toe on show, as if it somehow crossed out the defeat he had just suffered.

He should have been coming out apologising for his behaviour before the fight and thanking Wlad for the opportunity he gave him. He is delusional and these are the reasons why people have turned against him.

Yes agree it was his big chance to make history and become the unified heavyweight champion but have you ever boxed yourself? I Haven’t but I imagine it isn’t easy to knock out a 6ft 7in lump like Wlad when you are not on your A game so saying that he didn’t put all on the line is a bit unfair, if he had pulled out 3 weeks before the fight with the injury he would of still been slagged off, Haye was on a lose / lose situation but done what he thought was best and tried not to let the fans down. He made a mistake, we all make mistakes in life.

And as I said it’s not the first time that a boxer has passed blame on to a injury, ref, judges etc, look back to last year we even had Froch blame his loss against Kessler on the Ash cloud, so maybe it is his way of Haye justifying his lose to himself. We all look to blame something or someone when it goes wrong don’t we.

Again I agree his behaviour before the fight was disrespectful and Wlad come out of it with the respect from a lot of the British fans and media, and yes I was secretly rooting for Wald, but again you have to give it to haye, whatever he had done in the build up good or bad got the attention of the non boxing fans, which will only help the sport in the long run.

Deserter wrote:I do understand where you're coming from, but I think you need to remember that the majority of the public won't have been intimately familar with Haye prior to the Valuev fight - they won't have known about the scraps with Mormeck etc.
Consequently, when they see and read about this guy who's the self-proclaimed saviour of the division (and elements in the media are as culpable in this as Haye himself), and then see all the pre-fight build-up and his claims of what he's going to do to Kitschko, it's hardly surprising that they feel ripped off/cheated etc.
In simple terms, most of the public haven't got the context to be able to evaluate him properly.

I fully agree with this.

A combination of Haye himself and Sky Sports had made Haye into the best thing since sliced bread and this fight to be 'the biggest for 10 years'. Only destroying Wlad in emphatic fashion would have lived up to this hype.

It's similar to DeGale - I think the public can eventually accept people being arrogant/annoying etc as long as they walk the walk.

Haye and Sky went to such extremes to sell the fight that they didn't think about all the fans using their savings for false pretences, or what they would do if the unnatainable image they had built up couldn't be met.

I also think the toe excuse really adding to the vitriol. There was an audible groan in the pub as soon as he mentioned it and people are quick to get annoyed with a sore loser.

I haven't changed my mind on Haye - I said both him and the fight were way overhyped before the fight and I'm saying that now.

I think the final factor has been his excuses since the fight. We were told he was just putting on this act before the fight to sell it, but since the fight he has shown that he is totally classless without putting on an act!

MachoMan09 wrote:Personally I feel no different about Haye than I did before Saturday's fight. But in answer to the question: many people in this country are reactionary. You could just as easily ask 'Why did people fall in love with Haye so quickly?'.

Have you ever watched The Crying Game? The protagonist, Fergus, very quickly falls hook, line and sinker for somebody who he knows next to nothing about, Dil, after hearing her sing The Crying Game. Fergus begins to pursue Dil and even protects her from an obsessive suitor. Fergus is about to shag Dil in her apartment when he discovers she's got a cock. It turns out she's a non-op tranny living as a woman. His initial reaction is of revulsion. He throws up and accidentally hits Dil in the chops, leaving her sobbing on the floor. A few days later, Fergus leaves Dil a note and they make up.

Fergus = British public
Dil = Haye
Crying Game = Haye's pre-fight chit-chat
Cock = Shocking reality

Brilliant.

mkirkhope wrote:

Deserter wrote:I do understand where you're coming from, but I think you need to remember that the majority of the public won't have been intimately familar with Haye prior to the Valuev fight - they won't have known about the scraps with Mormeck etc.
Consequently, when they see and read about this guy who's the self-proclaimed saviour of the division (and elements in the media are as culpable in this as Haye himself), and then see all the pre-fight build-up and his claims of what he's going to do to Kitschko, it's hardly surprising that they feel ripped off/cheated etc.
In simple terms, most of the public haven't got the context to be able to evaluate him properly.

I fully agree with this.

A combination of Haye himself and Sky Sports had made Haye into the best thing since sliced bread and this fight to be 'the biggest for 10 years'. Only destroying Wlad in emphatic fashion would have lived up to this hype.

It's similar to DeGale - I think the public can eventually accept people being arrogant/annoying etc as long as they walk the walk.

Haye and Sky went to such extremes to sell the fight that they didn't think about all the fans using their savings for false pretences, or what they would do if the unnatainable image they had built up couldn't be met.

I also think the toe excuse really adding to the vitriol. There was an audible groan in the pub as soon as he mentioned it and people are quick to get annoyed with a sore loser.

I haven't changed my mind on Haye - I said both him and the fight were way overhyped before the fight and I'm saying that now.

I think the final factor has been his excuses since the fight. We were told he was just putting on this act before the fight to sell it, but since the fight he has shown that he is totally classless without putting on an act!

Watch and listen to his interviews today, not the stuff in the immediate aftermath. Completely different.

h smithy wrote:Is it just me or is anyone else feed up today with reading all of the negative reports on David Haye, this time last week the guy was a national hero and now almost every write up, interview and discussion regarding the fight everyone is picking on Haye, you even have a certain promoter calling for him to retire now!!!

I’m not defending Haye and yes the excuse he used after the fight was uncalled for but it’s not the first time we have heard a boxer blame a loss on something other than their own performance.

Why has everyone turned against him so quickly? The guy has to still be given credit for stepping up and fighting the best and bringing the sport back in to the mainstream, none of our other current British boxers expect Hatton have got the character to cross over from sportsman to celebrity, which in turn helps to get the non boxing fan interested in the sport.

Rant over.

I've been posting on British boxing forums for 10 years and it always happens after a BIG loss.

Personally I think Haye's been great for British boxing. Exciting fighter who wantes to test himself against the Best....... that's all I ask for in a boxer. His BIG Gob is just an added bonus.

It is quite simple.... In some people's eyes he is quite simply another false prophet. He proclaimed that he was going to be the saviour of the Heavyweight division who would topple those two Ukrainian man mountains who currently sit atop of the heavyweight division whom for their great technical ability are boring fighters in his eyes and people the press, fans, television networks all bought it. While that might appeal to the casual fight fan, but to the rest of us we have seen these prophets and hype merchants before and they will continue to fall, and he has failed to deliver in his promise to end the reign of the Brothers K, and is using a broken toe in his right foot as an excuse for failing to properly execute the fight plan that he and his trainer Adam Booth created to try and topple Wladimir K.... Now in today's Daily Telegraph he was proclaiming that he was the victim of a dirty tricks campaign http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... laims.html. They are just too many excuses coming from the Haye camp.

The only way to get into favour is get this toe sorted out, delay the retirement and get back in line for a rematch by taking out other top 10 contenders to cement his status, because he talked into himself into fighting Nikolai Valuev, a big lumbering giant, defeated John Ruiz a tough durable American Heavyweight a two time World champion but no hall of famer, and then Audley Harrison... what I do you want to me say about him. Prior to that Monte Barrett a former world title challenger and simply a gatekeeper. Not exactly the most glittering of resumes now is it?....

h smithy wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:For me it's the manner of the defeat. Going into the last three rounds the corner and Haye both would have known that his only way of winning the fight would be by knockout.

At no stage did Haye put it all on the line. This was his opportunity to make history and become a unified heavyweight champion. It was he who built up all the hype about how he was the saviour of the division and was going to go in and blow out Wlad with his trademark Hayemakers. If he really put everything into those last few rounds and tried to get the win, his effort would have been considered heroic, even if it meant getting stopped himself.

And if the pre fight talk was not enough, the post fight talk was sickening. Since the defeat he has blamed the toe, the referee, the judges, the ring walk, the fact that the fight is in Germany. It's disgraceful. He seemed almost proud to stand with his broken toe on show, as if it somehow crossed out the defeat he had just suffered.

He should have been coming out apologising for his behaviour before the fight and thanking Wlad for the opportunity he gave him. He is delusional and these are the reasons why people have turned against him.

Yes agree it was his big chance to make history and become the unified heavyweight champion but have you ever boxed yourself? I Haven’t but I imagine it isn’t easy to knock out a 6ft 7in lump like Wlad when you are not on your A game so saying that he didn’t put all on the line is a bit unfair, if he had pulled out 3 weeks before the fight with the injury he would of still been slagged off, Haye was on a lose / lose situation but done what he thought was best and tried not to let the fans down. He made a mistake, we all make mistakes in life.

And as I said it’s not the first time that a boxer has passed blame on to a injury, ref, judges etc, look back to last year we even had Froch blame his loss against Kessler on the Ash cloud, so maybe it is his way of Haye justifying his lose to himself. We all look to blame something or someone when it goes wrong don’t we.

Again I agree his behaviour before the fight was disrespectful and Wlad come out of it with the respect from a lot of the British fans and media, and yes I was secretly rooting for Wald, but again you have to give it to haye, whatever he had done in the build up good or bad got the attention of the non boxing fans, which will only help the sport in the long run.

Yeah, he got the attention of fans who probably won't tune in next time because they'll think it's all hype. Once bitten, twice shy.

I have not boxed before myself, but I still feel in a position to be able to say that Haye was not prepared to take the risks necessary to win the fight going into the last few rounds when it was clear he needed a KO. Instead he seemed content to be able to go last the distance, not become Wlads 50th KO victim, and then use the pre-meditated excuse of the toe injury to suggest that the fight was basically an NC.

At the end Haye was talking about how he was not hurt at all and finished the fight as a fresh fighter. In that case, why the fornicate didn't he take some risks to try to win the fight? To me, a heavyweight world champion challenging another for unified titles should not be finishing a fight unhurt when he is way behind on the scorecards. In order words, he didn't take any risks.

Chambers2 wrote:

h smithy wrote:Is it just me or is anyone else feed up today with reading all of the negative reports on David Haye, this time last week the guy was a national hero and now almost every write up, interview and discussion regarding the fight everyone is picking on Haye, you even have a certain promoter calling for him to retire now!!!

I’m not defending Haye and yes the excuse he used after the fight was uncalled for but it’s not the first time we have heard a boxer blame a loss on something other than their own performance.

Why has everyone turned against him so quickly? The guy has to still be given credit for stepping up and fighting the best and bringing the sport back in to the mainstream, none of our other current British boxers expect Hatton have got the character to cross over from sportsman to celebrity, which in turn helps to get the non boxing fan interested in the sport.

Rant over.

I've been posting on British boxing forums for 10 years and it always happens after a BIG loss.

Personally I think Haye's been great for British boxing. Exciting fighter who wantes to test himself against the Best....... that's all I ask for in a boxer. His BIG Gob is just an added bonus.

Does he?

He certainly wants to make money from the best, but his career doesn't strike me as someone who is always desperate to test himself against the best. Wlad was the first top 10 heavy he's fought (apart from maybe Valuev who outside top 10 currently), and many of his fights have been against far from the best (see Fraudley for best example).

Even in his biggest ever fight on Saturday night it didn't seem to me that he really wanted to leave it all on the line in there.

I respect Haye for the career he's had and the money he's made through clever decisions, but he's never struck me at all as someone who really wants to always test himself against the best out there.

When you promise fireworks and don't even deliver sparklers, then people are going to be pissed off and have a moan.

One of the reasons that most people are missing is that a huge amount of money was spent on Haye winning by KO so to these punters their anger is aimed at him for losing them money and the whole 'toe' excuse at the end was just rubbing salt into their lighter pockets.

Of cause if Haye had been sparked out then they would have accepted that but the fact he went 12 rds and wasn't that busted up is seen as a sign that he didn't give it his best effort.

I expected this Love/Hate scenario from the 'casual' fan but to seen the way supposed 'boxing fans' on this british boxing forum turned against Haye is disgusting and just another nail in the coffin for this forum.

I never expected Haye to win, was more wanting in 'hope' but didn't expect it and actually i thought he did 'ok', not good or great but he showed me enough to give him a pass and i thought he won 3 or 4 rds although i accept a lot of people didn't have him winning 1 round but i don't give two fucks abouts their opinion.

It was Wladimir that kind of let me down and did his usual 2 punch combo the whole fight, did he even throw any other punch apart from left jab, right hand? appalling stuff for the watching public and unlike Haye i don't think Wlad could do any better if there was ever a Rematch wheras i honestly think David could do much better and lets be honest there was only one boxer at the end holding on for dear life and it wasn't Haye!

Chambers2 wrote:Personally I think Haye's been great for British boxing. Exciting fighter who wantes to test himself against the Best....... that's all I ask for in a boxer. His BIG Gob is just an added bonus.

Chambers, a couple of points for you:

1) At cruiser he was great for British boxing. At heavy, fights like Audley and Saturday's have done nothing for British boxing. In fact, you can argue with some conviction that they've helped hammer a nail into the coffin (too melodramatic, but you know what I'm trying to say). It hurts me that Haye's sore toe incident will be held up as indicative of British boxing by members of the British public rather than the performances of 'road warriors' like Froch and Macklin.

2) Test himself against the best - In the last 3 years Haye has fought Barrett, Ruiz, Harrison and then didn't lay it on the line on Saturday. How does that constitute testing himself against the best? In the same period Froch fought Pascal, Taylor, Dirrell, Kessler, Abraham and Johnson. THAT is what testing yourself against the best really means.

mkirkhope wrote:

Chambers2 wrote:

h smithy wrote:Is it just me or is anyone else feed up today with reading all of the negative reports on David Haye, this time last week the guy was a national hero and now almost every write up, interview and discussion regarding the fight everyone is picking on Haye, you even have a certain promoter calling for him to retire now!!!

I’m not defending Haye and yes the excuse he used after the fight was uncalled for but it’s not the first time we have heard a boxer blame a loss on something other than their own performance.

Why has everyone turned against him so quickly? The guy has to still be given credit for stepping up and fighting the best and bringing the sport back in to the mainstream, none of our other current British boxers expect Hatton have got the character to cross over from sportsman to celebrity, which in turn helps to get the non boxing fan interested in the sport.

Rant over.

I've been posting on British boxing forums for 10 years and it always happens after a BIG loss.

Personally I think Haye's been great for British boxing. Exciting fighter who wantes to test himself against the Best....... that's all I ask for in a boxer. His BIG Gob is just an added bonus.

Does he?

He certainly wants to make money from the best, but his career doesn't strike me as someone who is always desperate to test himself against the best. Wlad was the first top 10 heavy he's fought (apart from maybe Valuev who outside top 10 currently), and many of his fights have been against far from the best (see Fraudley for best example).

Even in his biggest ever fight on Saturday night it didn't seem to me that he really wanted to leave it all on the line in there.

I respect Haye for the career he's had and the money he's made through clever decisions, but he's never struck me at all as someone who really wants to always test himself against the best out there.

Well he worked his way into a position where he could challenge the the top man in the division (CW & HW), then he fought them both on away turf, so he was hardly shying away from the best

Deserter wrote: 2) Test himself against the best - In the last 3 years Haye has fought Barrett, Ruiz, Harrison and then didn't lay it on the line on Saturday. How does that constitute testing himself against the best? In the same period Froch fought Pascal, Taylor, Dirrell, Kessler, Abraham and Johnson. THAT is what testing yourself against the best really means.

i'm not known as Froch's biggest fan, but the above really does merit a mention about once a week at least.