BoxRec

I can't even tell you half the belt holders! It's a joke

Original 8

W. Klitshcko
Hopkins
Martinez
Mayweather
Marquez
Gamboa
Donaire
Wonjongkam

Hmm tricky heres MO

Heavy = Wlad Klitschko (Close between him and his brother but hes more active and just come out on top for me)
Cruiser = Steve Cunningham ( Lost split to Adamek and for me best out there)
Light heavy = Bernard Hopkins ( Just the man)
Super middle = Carl Froch (Ward probly will beat him but a fighters fighter)
Middle = Sergio Martinez (the best of the bunch )
Light middle = Saul Alvarez ( more on porspects than acheivments.~)
Welter = Pacman (easy enough)
L welter = A Khan (close him and bradley but think style wise he takes him)
Light = JM Marquez (even at his age still getting results)
S Feather = Cant pick
Feather = Gamboa (like this guy _)
Super bantam = Nishokia (guy who beat munro only one i realy know)
Bantam = Donaire (easy choice rate him big)
Super fly = no idea
Fly = No idea here downwards o be honest it was getting difficult the further down i went and some of them apart from Donaire im not sure if they are the best just the ones i know about.

Scottrf wrote:Original 8

W. Klitshcko
Hopkins
Martinez
Mayweather
Marquez
Gamboa
Donaire
Wonjongkam

Is that linear Scott?

To complete

Cunningham
Froch
None (since Martinez, need a unification)
Bradley
Burns
? Nishioka?
Mijares
Segura
Dunno

Mainly on a beat the man to become the man basis

Jeff Thomas wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Original 8

W. Klitshcko
Hopkins
Martinez
Mayweather
Marquez
Gamboa
Donaire
Wonjongkam

Is that linear Scott?

Pretty much, or the dominant champ. I haven't checked to see that they are the linear champs if that's what you're asking. It's a bit academic because the lineage is broken in every division.

A topic like this is personal preference really.

HW: Wladimir Klitschko
CW: Close call between Huck and Cunningham but Cunnigham's victory over the German gets him my decision.
LHW: Hopkins
SMW: Reserve judgement on this until after Ward vs Froch
MW: Martinez - easy choice
LMW: Cotto
WW: Pacquaio. Mayweather just too inactive.
LWW: Bradley just ahead of Khan. Unification fight is needed to decide this if Khan beats Judah.
LW: JM Marquez.
SFW: Nothing much between the beltholders to consider any of them the "Champ".
FW: Gamboa but Chris John deserves a mention.
SBW: Nishioka
BW: Agbeko or Donaire. Donaire beats Agbeko everyday imo.
SFW: Not a clue
FW: Pongsaklek
LFW: Segura (if he is still at that weight)

You don't think Burns' win over Martinez gives him the most genuine claim at that weight deno?

Scottrf wrote:You don't think Burns' win over Martinez gives him the most genuine claim at that weight deno?

Possibly, Scott but I think Martinez was overrated to a certain extent. Fana has the better wins over the past few years in the division. In saying that I think Fana has faded somewhat and Burns would beat him. They should just rename it the "South African and Burns" divison

The Baloyi win was good, I'm not sure what else he has. Burns' defenses have been very poor I'd agree, but the way he won the title against the most respected guy in the division is enough for me. Weak division though tbh, but interesting domestically.

Scottrf wrote:The Baloyi win was good, I'm not sure what else he has. Burns' defenses have been very poor I'd agree, but the way he won the title against the most respected guy in the division is enough for me. Weak division though tbh, but interesting domestically.

Klassen was a decent scalp aswell for Fana. I get your point about Burns but as I said I felt Martinez was slightly overrated. I think the fight between the two exposed him in that when his wild bombs don't do any damage he really doesn't have much else to offer. No disrespect at all intended towards Burns though, he fought a great fight that night.

Why is Froch rated above Ward? Ward dominated Kessler who in turn well beat Froch. I am a fan of Carl's but no way is he Champ.

DaveBoyMorrison wrote:Why is Froch rated above Ward? Ward dominated Kessler who in turn well beat Froch. I am a fan of Carl's but no way is he Champ.

Yeah, you're probably right. But I think Froch has had a better set of wins, travelling to do it. We will see after their fight, which I think Ward might win.

He = Vitali Klitschko
Cr = Cunningham
L.H = Hopkins
S.M = Ward
M = Martinez
L.M = (really a toss-up, no-one stands out as the true champ or has a better claim)
W = Mayweather
L.W = Bradley
L = Marquez
S.F = (really a toss-up, no-one stands out as the true champ or has a better claim)
F = Chris John
S.B = Nishioka
B = Donaire
SF = (really a toss-up, no-one stands out as the true champ or has a better claim)
F = Wongjongkam
L.F = (really a toss-up, no-one stands out as the true champ or has a better claim)
S = (really a toss-up, no-one stands out as the true champ or has a better claim)

How anyone can have any other answer than Chris John at Feather, JMM at Light or Floyd at Welter, Martinez at Middle, Ward at S-Middle or Hopkins at L-Heavy is beyond me.

cheers


Col/T.M.K

John is defending at home against average fighters. Gamboa's last 2 opponents are clearly better than anything he's faced since Marquez, and he's a much better boxer. He may have had a good claim but you don't keep it forever.

Very few divisions with a clear, single champ

Heavy - Wlad (3 belts)
Cruiser - Cunningham (1 belt) - has recent wins over 2 of the other 3 belt holders
Light Heavy - Bernard (1 belt)
Middle - Martinez (No belts)
Welter - Manny (1 belt) - ahead of Floyd through activity, he's beaten everyone floyd has more recently except JMM who had no business at welter 2 years ago (and doesn't later this year)
Light - Marquez (although this ends when he steps up to Welter)
Bantam - Donaire (2 belts)

The rest are toss ups between 2,3 or 4 fighters
Super Middle - Ward or Froch - winner of upcoming match crowns a champ in my eyes, despite the claims of Bute
Light Middle - Cotto is probably the best but has not beaten any of the other belt holders
Light Welter - Looked like there was going to be a champ crowned until Bradley backed out. Winner of Khan/Judah can claim equal rights over the No 1 spot alongside Bradley but without them meeting the title reamins vacant.
Super Feather - Ao, Burns and Uchiyama have comparable recent records without a fight between them to make a case for one over the others
Feather - Salido may have the best single victory, John has the most consistent and longest title reign and Gamboa is the most exciting, but again no clear reason for one over the others
Super Bantam - Nishioka is my favourite, but none of the belts have a lineage to speak of and no outstanding candidate
Super Fly - Strawweight - not sure I know enough of the fighters at these weights to give a sound basis for any of them being titlists.

Keep them coming lads! Great knowledge there

T.M.K wrote:He = Vitali Klitschko
Cr = Cunningham
L.H = Hopkins
S.M = Ward
M = Martinez
L.M = (really a toss-up, no-one stands out as the true champ or has a better claim)
W = Mayweather
L.W = Bradley
L = Marquez
S.F = (really a toss-up, no-one stands out as the true champ or has a better claim)
F = Chris John
S.B = Nishioka
B = Donaire
SF = (really a toss-up, no-one stands out as the true champ or has a better claim)
F = Wongjongkam
L.F = (really a toss-up, no-one stands out as the true champ or has a better claim)
S = (really a toss-up, no-one stands out as the true champ or has a better claim)

How anyone can have any other answer than Chris John at Feather, JMM at Light or Floyd at Welter, Martinez at Middle, Ward at S-Middle or Hopkins at L-Heavy is beyond me.

cheers


Col/T.M.K

Just how good would it be with 1 title and that lot as the recognised champ

Heavy - Wlad & Vitali need to sort out who is best. Wlad has the better recent opponents, though.
Cruiser - Cunningham, but him and Huck should have a rematch to confirm it.
Light Heavy - Hopkins
Super Middle - Ward/Froch. We'll know soon enough.
Middle - Martinez
Light Middle - Cotto probably has the best claim at the moment.
Welter - Mayweather/Pacquiao
Light Welter - Bradley
Light - Marquez
Super Feather - Broner/Fana/Burns
Feather - Gamboa/John/Salido

That's as far down as I'll go, as I don't get to watch the smaller guys enough.

Scottrf wrote:Original 8

W. Klitshcko
Hopkins
Martinez
Mayweather
Marquez
Gamboa
Donaire
Wonjongkam

Agree, with the provisos (is that a word?) that Gamboa's claim is a bit shaky what with John still being around, & that you can argue all day over Pac/Mayweather at welter until (if?) they actually fight. Also, Donaire is well worth it at bantam (beat the man who beat the man who beat the man etc) but he's going to have a proper challenger to face soon with the winner of Agbeko vs Mares, whom I hope he gets to defend against.

I'd put Toshiaki Nishioka in as deffo number one at superbantam, & for my money Uchiyama (who is a bit crude but a beast of a hitter) at superfeather (but super-feather is totally unclear).

I like the lighter divisions, meself, but I don't think I know quite enough about them to install a champeen... Autobarn? Counter-Puncher? Little help? I guess you've got Segura (although I think he's moved up) at light-fly, & maybe Nkossanithis... Nikosniathia... Nkoiosanthi... The South African who beat Raul Garcia at strawweight. Joyii. Him. Maybe. Or there's a Thai fella supposed to be quite handy, but I've only read about him (not seen him) & I deffo cannot spell his name.

Autobarn & I have argued viciously over Narvaez vs Cazares at super-fly before, so there's not a lot of point in reopening that can of worms. Let's say that one's unclear, too.

Thinking about who might be the proper bloke at Light-middle makes my head hurt. The cruisers are probably ruled by Steve Cunningham, or someone of Eastern European extraction.

Deno1986 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:The Baloyi win was good, I'm not sure what else he has. Burns' defenses have been very poor I'd agree, but the way he won the title against the most respected guy in the division is enough for me. Weak division though tbh, but interesting domestically.

Klassen was a decent scalp aswell for Fana. I get your point about Burns but as I said I felt Martinez was slightly overrated. I think the fight between the two exposed him in that when his wild bombs don't do any damage he really doesn't have much else to offer. No disrespect at all intended towards Burns though, he fought a great fight that night.

I respect your opinions, but I'm with Deno in that I don't see how Martinez was deffo number one at superfeather just 'cos he flattened Nicky Cook, who beat Alex Arthur, who won the vacant title. Juan Carlos Salgado knocked out "phenom" Jorge "Protected" Linares (who was a two-weight belt holder & hyped to death) in one round, & then got sparked by Uchiyama. I always thought that was a more impressive lineage, meself. But it's apples & oranges...

The reason I picked Mayweather Datsue, is I believe he has lineage from Baldomir, as well as a strong case from beating Mosley, who in turn beat Margarito coming off the domination of highly ranked Cotto. Also, I think he's the best boxer there and has been at the weight longer. I can see a case for choosing Pacquiao based on inactivity though.

Fair point at SFW and wouldn't argue it too strongly. Perhaps I overrate Burns' win a bit because he wasn't expected to win, which is somewhat irrelevant.

To have Mayweather as champion is laughable.

His record at 147 is gash, and Pacquiao has annihilated two men who he wanted absolutely nothing to do with.

Anyways.....

Wlad
Cunningham
Hopkins
Ward
Martinez
Cotto
Pacquiao
Bradley
Marquez
?????
Gamboa
Nishioka

Scottrf wrote:The reason I picked Mayweather Datsue, is I believe he has lineage from Baldomir, as well as a strong case from beating Mosley, who in turn beat Margarito coming off the domination of highly ranked Cotto. Also, I think he's the best boxer there. I can see a case for choosing Pacquiao based on inactivity though.

Fair point at SFW and wouldn't argue it too strongly.

Oh aye, I didn't mean to start over Mayweather vs Pac, just that like you said without a "proper" belt to hold or give up it's difficult to know what to do when a bloke retires, unretires, retires, unretires, retires, unretires...

& I promised myself I'd not start an argument over such subjective things, but LeedsLad, Mayweather's record is gash at welter?

Judah (former undisputed champ)
Baldomir (undisputed champ, stripped of 2 or was it three belts 'cos he doesn't speak English (see also: Sergio Gabriel Martinez)).
Hatton (clear champ at the weight below)
Marquez (Clear champ, er, two weights below. Hmm).
Mosely (flattened Margarito who had flattened Cotto).

I know he's an unlikeable fornicate, but I don't think that little lot qualifies as "gash". Pac beat DLH (not the champ), then Cotto (already brutalised by Margarito), then Clottey (errrrr...). I don't think Manny's resume quite stacks up at welter, it's more "Wooo-hooo, he's a little bloke beating up big 'uns!!!!".

LeedsLad wrote:To have Mayweather as champion is laughable.

His record at 147 is gash, and Pacquiao has annihilated two men who he wanted absolutely nothing to do with.

After they had been beaten, one of them at another weight.

Pacquiao wanted nothing to do with Mosley until Mayweather beat him.

You seem to have something personal against Mayweather tbh.

Scottrf wrote:

LeedsLad wrote:To have Mayweather as champion is laughable.

His record at 147 is gash, and Pacquiao has annihilated two men who he wanted absolutely nothing to do with.

After they had been beaten, one of them at another weight.

Pacquiao wanted nothing to do with Mosley until Mayweather beat him.

You seem to have something personal against Mayweather tbh.

See Scott? I've talked myself into it! Mayweather is the number one welterweight!