BoxRec

hi everyone i no this is old but just wanna know what you think When Holyfield was Cruiserweight Champ, the weight limit was 190 lbs but Holyfield usually weighed in several lbs under at 186 lbs, 187, 188 lbs.

In April 1988, Holyfield scaled 190 lbs against Carlos DeLeon for his final Cruiserweight fight.
In Dec 1988, Holyfield scaled 212 lbs ripped against Pinklon Thomas.

Mr.Olympia legend Lee Haney was in charge of bulking up Holyfield back then.
and he weighed in a super ripped and strong 218lbs for the tyson fight and than this

Allegations of steroid and HGH use On February 28, 2007, Holyfield was anonymously linked to Applied Pharmacy Services, a pharmacy in Alabama that is currently under investigation for supplying athletes with illegal steroids and human growth hormone (HGH). He denies ever using performance enhancers.

Holyfield's name does not appear in the law enforcement documents reviewed. However, a patient by the name of "Evan Fields" caught investigators' attention. "Fields" shares the same birth date as Holyfield—October 19, 1962. The listed address for "Fields" was 794 Evander, Fairfield, Ga. 30213. Holyfield has a very similar address. When the phone number that, according to the documents, was associated with the "Fields" prescription, was dialed, Holyfield answered.

On March 10, 2007 Holyfield made a public announcement that he would be pursuing his own investigation into the steroid claims in order to clear his name.

Holyfield was again linked to HGH in September 2007, when his name came up following a raid of Signature Pharmacy in Orlando, Florida. As of September 2007 Signature Pharmacy is under investigation for illegally supplying several professional athletes with steroids and HGH

I think there's very little doubt in this case.

My question is how many of the top heavyweights are using steroids?

Looking at the weights of several heavies in the Top 50, you can see
similar jumps of 15 to 25 pounds over relatively short (less than one
year) time periods.

Do heavies these days need those extra 20 pounds to compete?

Cutman Scabbers wrote:My question is how many of the top heavyweights are using steroids?

Looking at the weights of several heavies in the Top 50, you can see
similar jumps of 15 to 25 pounds over relatively short (less than one
year) time periods.

Do heavies these days need those extra 20 pounds to compete?

Quite often it's fat though. How many of them put on that much and stay ripped?

Scottrf wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:My question is how many of the top heavyweights are using steroids?

Looking at the weights of several heavies in the Top 50, you can see
similar jumps of 15 to 25 pounds over relatively short (less than one
year) time periods.

Do heavies these days need those extra 20 pounds to compete?

Quite often it's fat though. How many of them put on that much and stay ripped?

Sure, there are plenty who blow up or get lazy between bouts, etc. But I was thinking of
those who just get bigger and stronger. Take a look, and I think you'll find several
over past few years (even going back as much as fifteen or twenty years) who
start off their careers between 200 -- 215, and at some point jump to 220 -- 245.

I have no doubt he has done plenty of PED's. I had no doubt in the late eighties when he started working with Haney. I'm also quite certain he faced many fighters that were doing the exact same thing. It's the nature of athletics and it has been for a few decades. The Klitschko's might design their own for all we know.

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:My question is how many of the top heavyweights are using steroids?

Looking at the weights of several heavies in the Top 50, you can see
similar jumps of 15 to 25 pounds over relatively short (less than one
year) time periods.

Do heavies these days need those extra 20 pounds to compete?

Quite often it's fat though. How many of them put on that much and stay ripped?

Sure, there are plenty who blow up or get lazy between bouts, etc. But I was thinking of
those who just get bigger and stronger. Take a look, and I think you'll find several
over past few years (even going back as much as fifteen or twenty years) who
start off their careers between 200 -- 215, and at some point jump to 220 -- 245.

Absolutely, and you don't have to continuously use to maintain the gains.

nope

For sure Holyfield used PED's and is using Human Growth Hormone. HGH by the way does not have much of a documented effect. PED's on the other hand can be very effective but you have to train like a dog while on them to get that effect. I'm sure many fat fighters are on PED's as well but are to lazy in training to maximize the effect. I have no doubts that both Wlad and Vitali have used PED's as well.

Should convicted fighters be barred from HOF induction or consideration, guys? What are your thoughts?

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Should convicted fighters be barred from HOF induction or consideration, guys? What are your thoughts?

Convicted of what?

Steroid use

That's an interesting question.

Yes, or PEDs in general.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Yes, or PEDs in general.

Without a doubt. But the HOF will only get worse now due to its nature.

It is also likely the so called "Golden Age" of heavyweight Boxing was fuelled by Steroids. They became very popular in the late 60s.

baulks wrote:It is also likely the so called "Golden Age" of heavyweight Boxing was fuelled by Steroids. They became very popular in the late 60s.

Interesting point. No one seems to talk about this much.

They were around and being used in sport (Olympics, etc.) as early as
the 1950s, right?

Holyfield I don't think got on the heavy-duty HGH and roids until the Bowe rematch and subseqent bouts. Up to then he had weighed in at heavyweight from 202-210, not a huge leap at all for a guy who used to weigh 190 and looked fairly skinny at that weight using stuff like creatine, weight training and diet adjustments.

Then he was a humongous 218 for Bowe II and after that usually weighed in the upper 210-220 range, plus the subseqent stamina/heart issues. That's just my theory. But steroids are not a magic pill and people over-glamorize their effects. Steroids will not increase a boxer's stamina nor make them 'faster' or even more powerful, given that increased muscle mass does not directly equate to any increase in punching power.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Should convicted fighters be barred from HOF induction or consideration, guys? What are your thoughts?

Nope, it's too widespread to just punish the stupid. I think it actually tarnishes the Baseball HOF when a guy like Barry Bonds wont be in it. I think he was the greatest player who has ever lived.

dempseyfire wrote:Holyfield I don't think got on the heavy-duty HGH and roids until the Bowe rematch and subseqent bouts. Up to then he had weighed in at heavyweight from 202-210, not a huge leap at all for a guy who used to weigh 190 and looked fairly skinny at that weight using stuff like creatine, weight training and diet adjustments.

Then he was a humongous 218 for Bowe II and after that usually weighed in the upper 210-220 range, plus the subseqent stamina/heart issues. That's just my theory. But steroids are not a magic pill and people over-glamorize their effects. Steroids will not increase a boxer's stamina nor make them 'faster' or even more powerful, given that increased muscle mass does not directly equate to any increase in punching power.

I'm sure EPO, or like products are the drug of choice for Boxers. And they most certainly enhance your stamina which will enhance your power, speed and punch resistance. Look at your boy Manny.

dempseyfire wrote:But steroids are not a magic pill and people over-glamorize their effects. Steroids will not increase a boxer's stamina nor make them 'faster' or even more powerful, given that increased muscle mass does not directly equate to any increase in punching power.

You're wrong on this one, steriods are the magic pill if used right. There are designer roids today that would enhance most physical attributes of a boxer. People are still hung up on the classical image of the steroid-freak with bulging muscles, acne and so forth. There are stuff out there that will build lean muscle and be very suitable for a boxer. Look at world class sprinters today and compare their physique to that of the classical muscle bound 80's sprinter and you'll get the idea. Also remember that if you can enhance your performance by just a few % it will make a huge difference at the top level in most sports, even boxing.

The truth is somewhere in between. A lot of the public equate steroids & PEDs at large as being tantamount to having the cheat sheet on a math exam. They are not a silver bullet, magic pill, golden ticket --- what have you. You know how you can spot the juicer in your gym? He's the first guy in there, & the last to leave. No one wants to waste a cycle, & the roids allow you to back up quicker & faster than anyone around you --- but without really, really hard, consistent work, they're next to useless.

That said, when everyone is working at a certain level (i.e. pro athletes), then yes, it's definitely a leg-up (& then some, in a few cases).

The truth is that PED's aren't going to turn Pete McNeeley into Mike Tyson's equal. But they will make a better Pete McNeeley if he puts in the work. Toney is a perfect example of a fighter that put in work and then one who didn't. Against Holyfield & Booker he was a ripped, roid fighting machine. Later on when he couldn't be bothered to trian they helped give him voluptuous breasts against Batchelder.

holyfield is a great but you have to de-measure his credentials down to steroid abuse. i mean what would ken shamrock of been without them :!: could he of really pitted his strentgh v dan severn :!: answer is no way.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Holyfield I don't think got on the heavy-duty HGH and roids until the Bowe rematch and subseqent bouts. Up to then he had weighed in at heavyweight from 202-210, not a huge leap at all for a guy who used to weigh 190 and looked fairly skinny at that weight using stuff like creatine, weight training and diet adjustments.

Then he was a humongous 218 for Bowe II and after that usually weighed in the upper 210-220 range, plus the subseqent stamina/heart issues. That's just my theory. But steroids are not a magic pill and people over-glamorize their effects. Steroids will not increase a boxer's stamina nor make them 'faster' or even more powerful, given that increased muscle mass does not directly equate to any increase in punching power.

I'm sure EPO, or like products are the drug of choice for Boxers. And they most certainly enhance your stamina which will enhance your power, speed and punch resistance. Look at your boy Manny.

Where this is great increase in stamina today compared to boxers of yesteryear then? Guys today tire quicker than they did 50 years ago. EPO would also show up in the post-fight tests . . Manny despite what many love to speculate is not blood doping.

dempseyfire wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Holyfield I don't think got on the heavy-duty HGH and roids until the Bowe rematch and subseqent bouts. Up to then he had weighed in at heavyweight from 202-210, not a huge leap at all for a guy who used to weigh 190 and looked fairly skinny at that weight using stuff like creatine, weight training and diet adjustments.

Then he was a humongous 218 for Bowe II and after that usually weighed in the upper 210-220 range, plus the subseqent stamina/heart issues. That's just my theory. But steroids are not a magic pill and people over-glamorize their effects. Steroids will not increase a boxer's stamina nor make them 'faster' or even more powerful, given that increased muscle mass does not directly equate to any increase in punching power.

I'm sure EPO, or like products are the drug of choice for Boxers. And they most certainly enhance your stamina which will enhance your power, speed and punch resistance. Look at your boy Manny.

Where this is great increase in stamina today compared to boxers of yesteryear then? Guys today tire quicker than they did 50 years ago. EPO would also show up in the post-fight tests . . Manny despite what many love to speculate is not blood doping.

I have no idea whether boxers do EPO or if they even test for it in boxing. I do know this, it would be effective but probably not as effective as steroids.

dempseyfire wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Holyfield I don't think got on the heavy-duty HGH and roids until the Bowe rematch and subseqent bouts. Up to then he had weighed in at heavyweight from 202-210, not a huge leap at all for a guy who used to weigh 190 and looked fairly skinny at that weight using stuff like creatine, weight training and diet adjustments.

Then he was a humongous 218 for Bowe II and after that usually weighed in the upper 210-220 range, plus the subseqent stamina/heart issues. That's just my theory. But steroids are not a magic pill and people over-glamorize their effects. Steroids will not increase a boxer's stamina nor make them 'faster' or even more powerful, given that increased muscle mass does not directly equate to any increase in punching power.

I'm sure EPO, or like products are the drug of choice for Boxers. And they most certainly enhance your stamina which will enhance your power, speed and punch resistance. Look at your boy Manny.

Where this is great increase in stamina today compared to boxers of yesteryear then? Guys today tire quicker than they did 50 years ago. EPO would also show up in the post-fight tests . . Manny despite what many love to speculate is not blood doping.

Boxers don't need better stamina than fighters of yesteryear, they need better stamina than the guy in front of them. And if you think post-fight urine tests will pick up EPO or most any other PED in use you've lost your mind. Either that or you're completely ignorant to PED's. It's probably the latter. As for Pac, he is as innocent as Holyfield.