BoxRec

Larry Holmes

Mike Tyson

Evander Holyfield

Lennox Lewis

Vitali Klitshko

David Haye

I'd take Ron over Haye & Vitali. Live dog against Lewis & Tyson. Holmes out-boxes him and Evander out-slugs him

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'd take Ron over Haye & Vitali. Live dog against Lewis & Tyson. Holmes out-boxes him and Evander out-slugs him

I think getting into a slugging match with Lyle would be a terrible idea for Holyfield - it didn't work against Bowe and I think Lyle was possibly a bigger puncher than Bowe. A prime (late 80s, early 90s) Holyfield was very quick and would be best advised to use his speed to outbox Lyle, something I believe he would do:

Larry Holmes TKO14 Lyle - Holmes down early, finishes ahead on points.

Mike Tyson TKO6 Lyle - Both men hurt, a Lyle win isn't out of the question.

Evander Holyfield UD15 Lyle - see above.

Lennox Lewis TKO7 Lyle - Lyle has a chance for a KO win as long as the fight lasts. I could see Lyle knocking Lewis out, then being knocked out himself in a rematch.

Vitali Klitshko TKO12 Lyle - I think Vitali's huge size and strong chin help see him into the later rounds, where he eventually wears Lyle down.

Lyle KO5 David Haye - Haye is a live underdog, but I think Lyle stops Haye 8 times out of 10.

jezzamundo wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'd take Ron over Haye & Vitali. Live dog against Lewis & Tyson. Holmes out-boxes him and Evander out-slugs him

I think getting into a slugging match with Lyle would be a terrible idea for Holyfield - it didn't work against Bowe and I think Lyle was possibly a bigger puncher than Bowe. A prime (late 80s, early 90s) Holyfield was very quick and would be best advised to use his speed to outbox Lyle, something I believe he would do:

Lyle may be a bigger puncher than Bowe, but he wasn't a bigger man. That and Riddick's in-fighting were more of a problem than his power. Evander would never box a fighter like Lyle. I don't disagree that it would be the more intelligent path, but when he got hit he went to war. That goes for every fight he ever had. No reason to think it would be different in a mythical match.

Evander-Lyle would've been a helluva war. The only guy to go toe-to-toe with Lyle and survive was a peak Foreman after getting dropped twice, and Evander doesn't have near Foreman's punching power. Holyfield would have to respect Lyle like he did an older Foreman and box to a decision, otherwise Lyle is probably stopping him.

Tyson-Lyle is another great fight, but Mike's style is all wrong for Ron. Tyson TKO 3 Lyle.

Larry Holmes UD Lyle: After surviving some shaky moments

Lyle TKO 9 Klitschko: I think Ron would stun Vitali in the early rounds but unlike Sanders not tire out after 3 rounds and that Ron's pressure and body work would wear Vitali out.

Lewis UD Lyle: Although Ron had a great counter right hand that I think is major trouble for Lennox . . I could see these two splitting fights as jezz does.

Lyle KO 2 Haye: In another league

dempseyfire wrote:Evander-Lyle would've been a helluva war. The only guy to go toe-to-toe with Lyle and survive was a peak Foreman after getting dropped twice, and Evander doesn't have near Foreman's punching power. Holyfield would have to respect Lyle like he did an older Foreman and box to a decision, otherwise Lyle is probably stopping him.

Tyson-Lyle is another great fight, but Mike's style is all wrong for Ron. Tyson TKO 3 Lyle.

Larry Holmes UD Lyle: After surviving some shaky moments

Lyle TKO 9 Klitschko: I think Ron would stun Vitali in the early rounds but unlike Sanders not tire out after 3 rounds and that Ron's pressure and body work would wear Vitali out.

Lewis UD Lyle: Although Ron had a great counter right hand that I think is major trouble for Lennox . . I could see these two splitting fights as jezz does.

Lyle KO 2 Haye: In another league

Ahhh, I can hear the Call Of The Valkyries right now, as Saad prepares his onslaught for that crime

Nah, Dempsey isn't without his charms. I've come to grips that whenever a topic comes up involving Holyfield he will say something silly. If anything, I enjoy the satire.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nah, Dempsey isn't without his charms. I've come to grips that whenever a topic comes up involving Holyfield he will say something silly. If anything, I enjoy the satire.

He won't take that lying down, you know. I still enjoy the Holyfield-Quarry wars you two have had. Closest thing to genocide this forum has seen in any recent debates

Guys like Cooper, Qawi, Dokes, and Stewart were able to have considerable success when Evander forewent his boxing and went into the trenches . . and a peak Ron Lyle is much more dangerous and a bigger puncher than those fighters. The guy was an extremely skilled short puncher and his hook-uppercut combos were fast and incredibly damaging. Holyfield has the legs and ability to win a decision here, and he could, but if it does become bombs away, Lyle is not going to gas out like an old Dokes, Cooper or Mercer.

dempseyfire wrote:Guys like Cooper, Qawi, Dokes, and Stewart were able to have considerable success when Evander forewent his boxing and went into the trenches . . and a peak Ron Lyle is much more dangerous and a bigger puncher than those fighters. The guy was an extremely skilled short puncher and his hook-uppercut combos were fast and incredibly damaging. Holyfield has the legs and ability to win a decision here, and he could, but if it does become bombs away, Lyle is not going to gas out like an old Dokes, Cooper or Mercer.

Hmmm. I was kind of leaning with Saad on this point, but this is a convincing post. It is fair to say that Holyfield had to pull out all the stops warring with lesser guys (the Cooper fight was pretty embarrassing --- even when Holyfield dominated, he could hardly budge the guy).

I do think still, though, that Lyle's low hands would've hurt him a bit in a war with Holyfield. Interesting.

dempseyfire wrote:Guys like Cooper, Qawi, Dokes, and Stewart were able to have considerable success when Evander forewent his boxing and went into the trenches . . and a peak Ron Lyle is much more dangerous and a bigger puncher than those fighters. The guy was an extremely skilled short puncher and his hook-uppercut combos were fast and incredibly damaging. Holyfield has the legs and ability to win a decision here, and he could, but if it does become bombs away, Lyle is not going to gas out like an old Dokes, Cooper or Mercer.

In the end, Holyfield was kicking the shit out of all of those guys. He would do the same to Lyle. Ron gassed out in several fights, I don't know why it's a guarantee he wouldn't here. Holyfield wasn't nearly as easy to stop in reality as he is in your posts. You toss it around like a common moment.He was on another level from Lyle and NOBODY near his size ever came out on top of him in a war.

Edit: I've developed a typing tick. I continuously type a semi colon instead of an apostrophe. It's driving me mad!

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Guys like Cooper, Qawi, Dokes, and Stewart were able to have considerable success when Evander forewent his boxing and went into the trenches . . and a peak Ron Lyle is much more dangerous and a bigger puncher than those fighters. The guy was an extremely skilled short puncher and his hook-uppercut combos were fast and incredibly damaging. Holyfield has the legs and ability to win a decision here, and he could, but if it does become bombs away, Lyle is not going to gas out like an old Dokes, Cooper or Mercer.

In the end, Holyfield was kicking the shit out of all of those guys. He would do the same to Lyle. Ron gassed out in several fights, I don't know why it's a guarantee he wouldn't here. Holyfield wasn't nearly as easy to stop in reality as he is in your posts. You toss it around like a common moment.He was on another level from Lyle and NOBODY near his size ever came out on top of him in a war.

Edit: I've developed a typing tick. I continuously type a semi colon instead of an apostrophe. It's driving me mad!

Lyle is bigger than Holyfield, and is bigger than Dokes, Qawi or Cooper. At 215-220 he looked almost 'skinny' and clearly could've put on another 15 lbs without looking overweight in the slightest. But size isn't really the factor here anyway.

I'm not even favoring Lyle here, as I think Evander would stick to boxing like he did Foreman and Mercer and outpoint Lyle. You are the one saying Holyfield would've thrown the boxing out the window and 'kicked the shit' out of Lyle toe-to-toe, which I think is absurd. A prime Lyle (whose prime was short due to his late start into boxing) is better than any fighter Holyfield fought not named Lennox (I know you'll add Bowe, let's just agree to disagree on him) and of course I'm talking about the versions of Tyson, Foreman and Holmes Evander faced, not them in their primes.

Of course you find it absurd, we are talking about Holyfield. He stood and traded with Mercer and Foreman on many occasions, he would with Lyle as well. 215 or 220 is the same size as Holyfield. If Lyle was slightly bigger it certainly was nothing substantial. I'm not sure why you want Lyle to gain weight that he never did for a mythical fight, but that is beyond silly.

As for disagreeing on Lyle and Bowe, that's fine. Bowe was definitely superior so I can see why you would want to ignore that.And if you want to toss stuff like that out there, prime Holyfield would be the greatest Heavyweight Lyle has ever fought considering the versions of Foreman and Ali that he lost to. Oddly, two fights he gassed in even though he definitely wouldn't gas here.

The main disagreement is that you don't find Holyfield to be superior to bottom ten contenders of the 70's like Lyle and Quarry. He would be too much for either one of them, 8 days a week and with any game plan he chose to use.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Of course you find it absurd, we are talking about Holyfield. He stood and traded with Mercer and Foreman on many occasions, he would with Lyle as well. 215 or 220 is the same size as Holyfield. If Lyle was slightly bigger it certainly was nothing substantial. I'm not sure why you want Lyle to gain weight that he never did for a mythical fight, but that is beyond silly.

As for disagreeing on Lyle and Bowe, that's fine. Bowe was definitely superior so I can see why you would want to ignore that.And if you want to toss stuff like that out there, prime Holyfield would be the greatest Heavyweight Lyle has ever fought considering the versions of Foreman and Ali that he lost to. Oddly, two fights he gassed in even though he definitely wouldn't gas here.

The main disagreement is that you don't find Holyfield to be superior to bottom ten contenders of the 70's like Lyle and Quarry. He would be too much for either one of them, 8 days a week and with any game plan he chose to use.

I think the idea that Lyle wouldn't have weighed more today is the part that is "beyond silly." In the 1970s, we didn't train with weights. I remember wanting to put on weight and suggested to my trainer that I head over the YMCA and lift weights. You would have thought I'd suggested supplementing my diet by eating lye soap. "Don't do it! Weights will ruin you!" Lyle had two old school trainers - Bobby Lewis and Chickie Ferrara. He wouldn't have worked with weights. I understand that now weights are part of a training regime - certainly for heavyweights. With weight training and PEDs (legal or illegal), Lyle would weigh at least 20 to 30 pounds more than he did. By the same token, without weights and PEDs (legal or illegal), Holyfield would have fought in the 1970s at about 205. Lyle would have been bigger whenever they fought.

I also disagree with your assessment that Lyle was "gassed" against Foreman and Ali. He got tagged in the Ali fight. Against Foreman, it was brawl and a cumulative effective of George's heavy punches that got him. I submit he wasn't "gassed" against either.

Would Lyle beat Holyfield? I don't know and don't care. I don't have a dog in that hunt. I generally don't do hypotheticals. But I do think two of your points are incorrect.

I don't recall anybody involving a time machine for the fight. If that was the case and Lyle juiced up or Holyfield didn't than that could change the size difference. But Lyle wouldn't be any bigger than Dokes was. And if Evander was 205 against a 215 or so Lyle in the 70's it wouldn't have been substantial.

So I'll submit that my point was valid and correct. As much as you don't care for mythical fights, I don't bother with mythical time transference and changing bodies.

Edit: Lyle looked gassed to me in both fights and I know I'm not alone in thinking that. I'll just agree to disagree on that one.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't recall anybody involving a time machine for the fight. If that was the case and Lyle juiced up or Holyfield didn't than that could change the size difference. But Lyle wouldn't be any bigger than Dokes was. And if Evander was 205 against a 215 or so Lyle in the 70's it wouldn't have been substantial.

So I'll submit that my point was valid and correct. As much as you don't care for mythical fights, I don't bother with mythical time transference and changing bodies.

Edit: Lyle looked gassed to me in both fights and I know I'm not alone in thinking that. I'll just agree to disagree on that one.

Lyle was gassed, you are definitely not alone.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't recall anybody involving a time machine for the fight. If that was the case and Lyle juiced up or Holyfield didn't than that could change the size difference. But Lyle wouldn't be any bigger than Dokes was. And if Evander was 205 against a 215 or so Lyle in the 70's it wouldn't have been substantial.

So I'll submit that my point was valid and correct. As much as you don't care for mythical fights, I don't bother with mythical time transference and changing bodies.

Edit: Lyle looked gassed to me in both fights and I know I'm not alone in thinking that. I'll just agree to disagree on that one.

Yeah, I guess a time machine would be totally out of the question for any of these hypothetical cross-era fights . . .

You're right on one thing: we will have to disagree with whether he was gassed.

raylawpc wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't recall anybody involving a time machine for the fight. If that was the case and Lyle juiced up or Holyfield didn't than that could change the size difference. But Lyle wouldn't be any bigger than Dokes was. And if Evander was 205 against a 215 or so Lyle in the 70's it wouldn't have been substantial.

So I'll submit that my point was valid and correct. As much as you don't care for mythical fights, I don't bother with mythical time transference and changing bodies.

Edit: Lyle looked gassed to me in both fights and I know I'm not alone in thinking that. I'll just agree to disagree on that one.

Yeah, I guess a time machine would be totally out of the question for any of these hypothetical cross-era fights . . .

You're right on one thing: we will have to disagree with whether he was gassed.

I'm right about two things if you're keeping score. This is the first I've ever heard of Lyle not gassing against Ali and Foreman and Ron were both exhausted.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't recall anybody involving a time machine for the fight. If that was the case and Lyle juiced up or Holyfield didn't than that could change the size difference. But Lyle wouldn't be any bigger than Dokes was. And if Evander was 205 against a 215 or so Lyle in the 70's it wouldn't have been substantial.

So I'll submit that my point was valid and correct. As much as you don't care for mythical fights, I don't bother with mythical time transference and changing bodies.

Edit: Lyle looked gassed to me in both fights and I know I'm not alone in thinking that. I'll just agree to disagree on that one.

Yeah, I guess a time machine would be totally out of the question for any of these hypothetical cross-era fights . . .

You're right on one thing: we will have to disagree with whether he was gassed.

I'm right about two things if you're keeping score. This is the first I've ever heard of Lyle not gassing against Ali and Foreman and Ron were both exhausted.

. . . (yawn) . . .

Larry Holmes by relatively easy 15rd dec

Mike Tyson by stoppage around the 5th or 6th, although Lyle was a live dog and if they fought 3 or 4 times, he would have stopped Mike in one of them.

Evander Holyfield by close dec in a very competitive fight

Lennox Lewis by comfortable dec, although Lyle takes one by KO if they fought 3 or 4 times.

Vitali Klitshko by very boring dec.

David Haye gets stopped very early in the first fight, but survives until middle rounds in the rematch.

I think David Haye's little Right toe is the only victory here for Lyle.

I'd take all the others on points, with the exception of Tyson, who'd have probably bludgeoned him to a mid rounds stoppage.

raylawpc wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

raylawpc wrote: Yeah, I guess a time machine would be totally out of the question for any of these hypothetical cross-era fights . . .

You're right on one thing: we will have to disagree with whether he was gassed.

I'm right about two things if you're keeping score. This is the first I've ever heard of Lyle not gassing against Ali and Foreman and Ron were both exhausted.

. . . (yawn) . . .

I see you have a case of Ron Lyle syndrome. Get yourself a nap.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: I'm right about two things if you're keeping score. This is the first I've ever heard of Lyle not gassing against Ali and Foreman and Ron were both exhausted.

. . . (yawn) . . .

I see you have a case of Ron Lyle syndrome. Get yourself a nap.

It's not "Ron Lyle syndrome;" I suffer from "SaadOffTheDeck's-posts-put-me-to-sleep syndrome." . . .(yawn) . . .

raylawpc wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

raylawpc wrote: . . . (yawn) . . .

I see you have a case of Ron Lyle syndrome. Get yourself a nap.

It's not "Ron Lyle syndrome;" I suffer from "SaadOffTheDeck's-posts-put-me-to-sleep syndrome." . . .(yawn) . . .

Nobody has a gun to your head. If you don't want to learn, don't read my wisdom.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
I see you have a case of Ron Lyle syndrome. Get yourself a nap.

It's not "Ron Lyle syndrome;" I suffer from "SaadOffTheDeck's-posts-put-me-to-sleep syndrome." . . .(yawn) . . .

Nobody has a gun to your head. If you don't want to learn, don't read my wisdom.

. . .(yawn). . .