BoxRec

"Bending/stretching the rules - without breaking them".... Fair appraisal?

Opinions?

Col/T.M.K

Yep, I think it's a good comparison. I don't like what Floyd did, but any sympathy for Ortiz is negated by such a blatant headbutt. I think Ortiz's actions indicated a man who wanted out of the fight.

In Honeyghans case:

"The bell went ding and I went dong!"

Deserter wrote:Yep, I think it's a good comparison. I don't like what Floyd did, but any sympathy for Ortiz is negated by such a blatant headbutt. I think Ortiz's actions indicated a man who wanted out of the fight.

I don't agree with that. Although not winning he wasn't doing to badly and was actually having his best moments at that point. I just think he wanted to impose himself and got carried away with the dirty stuff which backfired.

It's not good when another big night for boxing ends in controversy. First the Morales fight we actaully wanted to see goes down the pan and then the main event turns out to be total s**t, because A. Ortiz acted like a tit both with the headbutt and by not being more attentive, and B. Because Floyd landed a blatant cheap shot, which ended and ruined the fight prematurely.

It's one of those fight cards that i'm never gonna go back to again, it sucked.

I think it's kinda like screwing your 16-year old cousin - it's legal but its not right.

The most disappointing aspect is that it denied us the chance of a natural ending to the fight and we'll have another 16 months to wait before Floyd returns to prove his greatness.

ArtOfWar wrote:

Deserter wrote:Yep, I think it's a good comparison. I don't like what Floyd did, but any sympathy for Ortiz is negated by such a blatant headbutt. I think Ortiz's actions indicated a man who wanted out of the fight.

I don't agree with that. Although not winning he wasn't doing to badly and was actually having his best moments at that point. I just think he wanted to impose himself and got carried away with the dirty stuff which backfired.

For me, it wasn't so much the headbutt itself, but the OTT apologies afterwards - Teddy Atlas refers to the 'unwritten contract' between fighters and I interpreted Ortiz's actions as being indicative of that. He seemed to be desperate not to upset Floyd and his comments post-fight seem to support this interpretation as he doesn't seem remotely perturbed by the outcome.

Deserter wrote:

ArtOfWar wrote:

Deserter wrote:Yep, I think it's a good comparison. I don't like what Floyd did, but any sympathy for Ortiz is negated by such a blatant headbutt. I think Ortiz's actions indicated a man who wanted out of the fight.

I don't agree with that. Although not winning he wasn't doing to badly and was actually having his best moments at that point. I just think he wanted to impose himself and got carried away with the dirty stuff which backfired.

For me, it wasn't so much the headbutt itself, but the OTT apologies afterwards - Teddy Atlas refers to the 'unwritten contract' between fighters and I interpreted Ortiz's actions as being indicative of that. He seemed to be desperate not to upset Floyd and his comments post-fight seem to support this interpretation as he doesn't seem remotely perturbed by the outcome.

I know what your saying, but Ortiz has always been like that if you watch his interviews. I think because he didn't have much parental guidence he hasn't developed naturally. His personality is one that almost seems like he's developed it himself consciously, if that makes sense. Where as most of us just become who we are wiithout even being aware of it.

ArtOfWar wrote:I know what your saying, but Ortiz has always been like that if you watch his interviews. I think because he didn't have much parental guidence he hasn't developed naturally. His personality is one that almost seems like he's developed it himself consciously, if that makes sense. Where as most of us just become who we are wiithout even being aware of it.

Have to be honest and say I haven't seen much at all of Ortiz prior to this so more than happy to accept this. Thanks for the thoughts, as that's genuinely interesting feedback

I didn't interpret the headbutt as a sign of desperation or resignation - Prtiz had jus landed some good shots - I think he got carried away in the moment and wanted to rattle mayweather further - he rubbed his head in earlier in the fight.

He did overkill the apologies though and Floyd appeared o want to put him in his place.

Ortiz was doing ok I thought and mayweathera footwork looked peer than usual and I thought he got tagged more than usual.

ArtOfWar wrote:

Deserter wrote:

ArtOfWar wrote: I don't agree with that. Although not winning he wasn't doing to badly and was actually having his best moments at that point. I just think he wanted to impose himself and got carried away with the dirty stuff which backfired.

For me, it wasn't so much the headbutt itself, but the OTT apologies afterwards - Teddy Atlas refers to the 'unwritten contract' between fighters and I interpreted Ortiz's actions as being indicative of that. He seemed to be desperate not to upset Floyd and his comments post-fight seem to support this interpretation as he doesn't seem remotely perturbed by the outcome.

I know what your saying, but Ortiz has always been like that if you watch his interviews. I think because he didn't have much parental guidence he hasn't developed naturally. His personality is one that almost seems like he's developed it himself consciously, if that makes sense. Where as most of us just become who we are wiithout even being aware of it.

interesting perspective

I think the important thing to remember is that Cortes should never be i charge of a fight again. He is only interested in himself and his stupid catchphrase, but has become a complete parody. As if his handling of the Hatton and Calzaghe fights wasn't bad enough, he should have been retired after that Soto farce a couple of years ago.
After the appalling Russell Mora episode a few weeks ago, Nevada really needs to get some new refs.

DEFEND YOURSELF AT ALL TIMES

cutthecacklebullyup wrote:DEFEND YOURSELF AT ALL TIMES

That excuses the result of this fight, that doesn't excuse incompetent refereeing. Cortez is a total clown.

Deserter wrote:Yep, I think it's a good comparison. I don't like what Floyd did, but any sympathy for Ortiz is negated by such a blatant headbutt. I think Ortiz's actions indicated a man who wanted out of the fight.

Precisely, when fighters commit blatant fouls like that, it's a sign they want out either knowingly or unknowingly, see Golota against Bowe in both fights.

King Geedorah wrote:Floyd was looking directly at Ortiz and not the ref. He did what most fighters would do, Ortiz should have got his hands up, certainly after the left went in. Floyd could have hit the deck after that butt, said he was concussed and gone for the DQ win. Ortiz got spanked, landed one or two, couldn't get the follow on and acted in frustration.

Ortiz and Cortez lost control, Floyd didn't, that is why he won the fight and is the best fighter in the world.

I roooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr in agreement!

Floyd did what he is paid to do.

gobbles wrote:I think the important thing to remember is that Cortes should never be i charge of a fight again. He is only interested in himself and his stupid catchphrase, but has become a complete parody. As if his handling of the Hatton and Calzaghe fights wasn't bad enough, he should have been retired after that Soto farce a couple of years ago.
After the appalling Russell Mora episode a few weeks ago, Nevada really needs to get some new refs.

Have to agree with the "parody" bit.

He's a fekkin joke.

King Geedorah wrote:Floyd was looking directly at Ortiz and not the ref. He did what most fighters would do, Ortiz should have got his hands up, certainly after the left went in. Floyd could have hit the deck after that butt, said he was concussed and gone for the DQ win. Ortiz got spanked, landed one or two, couldn't get the follow on and acted in frustration.

Ortiz and Cortez lost control, Floyd didn't, that is why he won the fight and is the best fighter in the world.

Exactly

King Geedorah wrote:Floyd was looking directly at Ortiz and not the ref. He did what most fighters would do, Ortiz should have got his hands up, certainly after the left went in.

What? Feign acceptance of an apology before sucker punching their opponent?

charlieb wrote:

King Geedorah wrote:Floyd was looking directly at Ortiz and not the ref. He did what most fighters would do, Ortiz should have got his hands up, certainly after the left went in.

What? Feign acceptance of an apology before sucker punching their opponent?

I'm as dumbfounded as you, for some reason people can't grasp how bad of an advert for boxing this was.

Floyd hit Ortiz with two of the cheapest shots you'll ever see and despite Ortiz' headbutt, two wrongs don't make a right. Floyd did same to Gatti. He didn't break rules but in the spirit of the sport showed absolutely none. Guy showed what a punk he is, despite fact he's still a great fighter. He should've just carried on beating Ortiz like he was already doing.

I don't know, in my opinion there was nothing wrong with Honeyghan-Bumphus at all, the bell had gone so if Bumphus wasn't ready that's his problem and also it lead to the greatest quote in history.

As for Mayweather-Ortiz, as much as I dislike Floyd I find it hard to have sympathy for a man who intentionally butted him, it may have been unsporting but so is butting someone, fight fire with fire.

On another note though why does Cortez still get these big fights, the man is an utter fool.

What a pile of sh1t!

My wife watched the fight and said, "Are you absolutely sure this isn't all scripted like the wrestling?"

This was followed by "It seems like a lot of money to be paying... The other week didn't some guy pretend he's been hit below the belt [Judah]? Then who was that guy who kept falling down, started crying and pretended he'd been knocked out [Dirrell]? What about that one who insisted the fight be stopped because his cut burned [Alexander]? And that one against Amir Khan [McCloskey]? And what about when we had that party and Haye had a bad toe?"

Holds her glass out for me to pour her some more wine.

"I know you like it but it doesn't seem like a proper sport to me. That one [Ortiz] doesn't seem bothered that he lost. And even when he did hit Floyd the commentators didn't mention it and just kept going on and on about this Floyd bloke."

I sigh.

"Wouldn't you rather watch Kung Fu or something like that?"

I cant believe how many are coming out in support of Mayweather!

It was clearly bad sportmanship and the headbutt from Ortiz does nothing at all to dilute that.

Ortiz hugs him by way of apology and crucially Mayweather reciprocates by appearing to accept the hug and the apology. Ortiz breaks away and looks at the ref who is speaking to the timekeeper. Mayweather in the very same fluid action as taking his hands off Ortiz cracks him. There is no pause at all, Mayweather does not reset at all, it was a deliberate cheap shot against a man who was not defending himself. After the first shot Ortiz looks at the ref and starts to speak as though 'wtf!' and Mayweather flattens him. It was clearly wrong, unsportmanlike and extremely dangerous.

The 'defend yourself at all times' rule is neither here nor there. Ortiz in this context (ref clearly not paying attention/convention of fighters breaking and resetting after a break/apology) had every right to assume he was not about to get clocked. This is the direct equivalent of fighter A going to hug fighter B at the start of the last round and fighter B pretending to do the same before chinning him. Its wrong and cheapens the sport.

With his chin hanging out, clearly not prepared, Ortiz could have been seriously injured or even killed. The butt makes no difference at all to this point.

Sometimes I question whether people love boxing as a sport or simply love brutal violence.

I can tell how few of you have ever boxed or were ever good fighters. Unless you've been in there and know what one's instincts are like in those situations you should just pipe down.

Gray-Fox wrote:I can tell how few of you have ever boxed or were ever good fighters. Unless you've been in there and know what one's instincts are like in those situations you should just pipe down.

What an utterly shite argument. Take it was fine in your view for Abraham to clock Dirrell? How about Tyson biting off Holyfield's ear? Didn't they act out of instinct?

Boxers are professional sportsman competing in regulated contests. Participants have the right to expect fairness. Its not a fight to to the death on a estate somewhere!