BoxRec

I have been making an effort recently to get back into boxing. (and as we all know, most things that require effort are usually not worth doing) and it'd just impossible to drum up any enthusiasm with the sport as things stand.

I'll tell you why, too, its not because of "streaming" (a name which to me, still conjures up images poor quality VHS recordings of Germans urinating on each other, rather than watching TV on your PC) nor the rise of MMA

Its because the promoters are all crap.

Watching UFC a bit recently I was struck at the "clarity" of the whole product, stories and characters are established quickly and clearly. X is a bad guy so we see him generally acting like a pudendum, Y is a good guy, so we see him making with the nice nice. They then make sure the audience knows both guys history, giving a story as to how we got to this point where these 2 guys are fighting (Boxing promoters are horrible at doing this, its like they have to keep it a secret) show them knocking some people out and its done.

The audience knows who, why, where, when.

Boxing promoters used to do this (Benn - Eubank, prime example) but seem to have gone in a different direction, they just don't give the public any reason to care about most fights. Look at how Carl Frotch has been "promoted" over the years, a talented, exciting, world champ like that should be doing 6 million viewers on Saturday nights. Not doing whatever he is doing at the moment. (I have no idea what he is doing, his promotional team havent let me know, alas)

Well there you go.

Love it or hate it but you gotta take your hat off to the way the UFC is branded/run.
A few years ago mma fans was saying that the UFC was gonna swallow boxing and boxing fans/promoters at the time scoffed at the idea...but look whats happened,the UFC is now on network tv in the USA and being beemed to more homes than what boxing is !
To get to where they are The UFC dont mess about and let fighters dodge each other,they make the fights the fans want and their events are stacked with good competitive fights ..they have one champ per weight class and to get a title shot 9 times outa 10 you have to fornicating earn it !
The nails in boxing's coffin is the countless belts and greedy promoters that put on poor cards and pad fighters records ...can anyone see a way out or bigger future for boxing in its currant format ? i cant . :(

mrpedigree wrote:Love it or hate it but you gotta take your hat off to the way the UFC is branded/run.
A few years ago mma fans was saying that the UFC was gonna swallow boxing and boxing fans/promoters at the time scoffed at the idea...but look whats happened,the UFC is now on network tv in the USA and being beemed to more homes than what boxing is !
To get to where they are The UFC dont mess about and let fighters dodge each other,they make the fights the fans want and their events are stacked with good competitive fights ..they have one champ per weight class and to get a title shot 9 times outa 10 you have to effing earn it !
The nails in boxing's coffin is the countless belts and greedy promoters that put on poor cards and pad fighters records ...can anyone see a way out or bigger future for boxing in its currant format ? i cant . :(

Yussss, 100% agree.

I don't particularly like MMA, as a fan, but the UFC brand is magnificently promoted. I could name all the champs off the top of my head and I have barely watched the bloody thing.

Its not rocket science how UFC promote, in fact its how boxing was promoted at one time.

Interesting to note that Dana White has a boxing background....

funny that

Only read the first bit of this cos quite frankly it made me think not to bother with the rest, but if you want "characters" and "good and bad guys" stick to WWF wrestling mate.

Boxing is proper sportsmen

saturday_kid wrote:Only read the first bit of this cos quite frankly it made me think not to bother with the rest, but if you want "characters" and "good and bad guys" stick to WWF wrestling mate.

Boxing is proper sportsmen

ha ha ha


You could be a promoter with that attitude!

Ok, go and have a nice long think about ummm say "Benn - Eubank" or "Ali - Foreman" or "Ali - Fraser" (Ali was a great, great self promoter, he could get people to pay to see him get beat, then get them to fork out again a few years later, recasting himself as the good guy underdog.

"Leonard - Hagler"

"Bruno - Lewis"


I could go on, but you are probably to thick to understand.

Boxing was more or less finished a few years ago.

Titles don't mean anything.

It attracts nothing but meatheads looking for someone to get his face kicked in.

Once Mayweather, Pac and Hopkins retire. Boxing will be as good as gone.

If someone has 1 loss, he is "a Bum, over-rated" etc.

Its about who beats who anymore, it's about who doesn't lose etc.

Dang, with some Mayweather/Pac fans, it's about who can earn the most money etc.

I think alot of longtime boxing fans will be the first to jump ship. This "Sport" is nothing but a bad joke now.

saturday_kid wrote:Only read the first bit of this cos quite frankly it made me think not to bother with the rest, but if you want "characters" and "good and bad guys" stick to WWF wrestling mate.

Boxing is proper sportsmen

I am just glad that I have made you "think"... no small achievement I imagine.

I hope it didn't make you feel tired? Maybe go and have a nice lie down, there's a good chap.

I agree with the having an 0 bit. Preserve that undeafeated record at all costs, bring in an overweight Latvian who hasnt a win on his record the gullible public will buy it!!

talking bollocks , you cant decide what sport is dead , finances change in EVERY sport over time , sometimes in a positive way sometimes in a negative way , boxing has been here a damn site longer than the ufc /mma and will be around long after theyve gone .

i honestly would rather watch two complete novice boxers than any mma , and i wont be the only one on here that thinks that
, im not saying theyre not good at what they do , but i dont like it , simple as that .

damianhucker1 wrote:talking bollocks , you cant decide what sport is dead , finances change in EVERY sport over time , sometimes in a positive way sometimes in a negative way , boxing has been here a damn site longer than the ufc /mma and will be around long after theyve gone .

i honestly would rather watch two complete novice boxers than any mma , and i wont be the only one on here that thinks that
, im not saying theyre not good at what they do , but i dont like it , simple as that .

don't sit on the fence mate, tell us how u really feel

damianhucker1 wrote:talking bollocks , you cant decide what sport is dead , finances change in EVERY sport over time , sometimes in a positive way sometimes in a negative way , boxing has been here a damn site longer than the ufc /mma and will be around long after theyve gone .

i honestly would rather watch two complete novice boxers than any mma , and i wont be the only one on here that thinks that
, im not saying theyre not good at what they do , but i dont like it , simple as that .

Sorry, but I don't get your point, as i clearly have got too much time on my hands let me dissect your arguments,

damianhucker1 wrote:"talking bollocks"

Odd way to start a sentence, are you addressing someone called 'Talking Bollocks'? funny nickname, that.

damianhucker1 wrote:"you cant decide what sport is dead"

Odd 2nd statement too, I can only assume you are addressing this 'Talking Bollocks' character.

damianhucker1 wrote:"finances change in EVERY sport over time , sometimes in a positive way sometimes in a negative way"

to be honest i dont know what you are talking about here.

damianhucker1 wrote:"boxing has been here a damn site longer than the ufc /mma and will be around long after theyve gone"

oooooh, thats just incorrect, MMA (in the form of grappling / submission wrestling / JuJitsu, Lancashire Catch Wrestling, Indian style wrestling, Greek Stylem Vale Tudo etc since 2000BC at least. In the UK submission wrestling pre-dates boxing by perhaps 1000 years?

damianhucker1 wrote:"i honestly would rather watch two complete novice boxers than any mma , and i wont be the only one on here that thinks that"

Yeah? id rather bang an experienced hooker who does anal than 2 complete novice girls who only offer front door access, and and i wont be the only one on here that thinks that, too

quote="damianhucker1"]im not saying theyre not good at what they do , but i dont like it , simple as that"[/quote]

But nobody gives a toss what you like and dont like.

We are discussing promoting fights, not your personal preferences.

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:talking bollocks , you cant decide what sport is dead , finances change in EVERY sport over time , sometimes in a positive way sometimes in a negative way , boxing has been here a damn site longer than the ufc /mma and will be around long after theyve gone .

i honestly would rather watch two complete novice boxers than any mma , and i wont be the only one on here that thinks that
, im not saying theyre not good at what they do , but i dont like it , simple as that .

Sorry, but I don't get your point, as i clearly have got too much time on my hands let me dissect your arguments,

"talking bollocks" Odd way to start a sentence, are you addressing someone called 'Talking Bollocks'? funny nickname, that.

"you cant decide what sport is dead" Odd 2nd statement too, I can only assume you are addressing this 'Talking Bollocks' character.

"finances change in EVERY sport over time , sometimes in a positive way sometimes in a negative way" to be honest i dont know what you are talking about here.

"boxing has been here a damn site longer than the ufc /mma and will be around long after theyve gone" oooooh, thats just incorrect, MMA (in the form of grappling / submission wrestling / JuJitsu, Lancashire Catch Wrestling, Indian style wrestling, Greek Stylem Vale Tudo etc since 2000BC at least. In the UK submission wrestling pre-dates boxing by perhaps 1000 years?

"i honestly would rather watch two complete novice boxers than any mma , and i wont be the only one on here that thinks that" Are you aware that there are 3billion people on earth and your likes and dislikes mean this: eff all?

" im not saying theyre not good at what they do , but i dont like it , simple as that"

But nobody gives a toss what you like and dont like.

We are discussing promoting fights, not your personal preferences.

I must agree with Damian I think your talking B*llocks.

yid14 wrote:

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:talking bollocks , you cant decide what sport is dead , finances change in EVERY sport over time , sometimes in a positive way sometimes in a negative way , boxing has been here a damn site longer than the ufc /mma and will be around long after theyve gone .

i honestly would rather watch two complete novice boxers than any mma , and i wont be the only one on here that thinks that
, im not saying theyre not good at what they do , but i dont like it , simple as that .

Sorry, but I don't get your point, as i clearly have got too much time on my hands let me dissect your arguments,

"talking bollocks" Odd way to start a sentence, are you addressing someone called 'Talking Bollocks'? funny nickname, that.

"you cant decide what sport is dead" Odd 2nd statement too, I can only assume you are addressing this 'Talking Bollocks' character.

"finances change in EVERY sport over time , sometimes in a positive way sometimes in a negative way" to be honest i dont know what you are talking about here.

"boxing has been here a damn site longer than the ufc /mma and will be around long after theyve gone" oooooh, thats just incorrect, MMA (in the form of grappling / submission wrestling / JuJitsu, Lancashire Catch Wrestling, Indian style wrestling, Greek Stylem Vale Tudo etc since 2000BC at least. In the UK submission wrestling pre-dates boxing by perhaps 1000 years?

"i honestly would rather watch two complete novice boxers than any mma , and i wont be the only one on here that thinks that" Are you aware that there are 3billion people on earth and your likes and dislikes mean this: eff all?

" im not saying theyre not good at what they do , but i dont like it , simple as that"

But nobody gives a toss what you like and dont like.

We are discussing promoting fights, not your personal preferences.

I must agree with Damian I think your talking B*llocks.

ummm, ok. Ive made an argument that part of UFC's success is basic, sound promoting, giving the public a reason to care about the fights, the sort of thing boxing used to do.

Damians position is "i dont like UFC" and yours in "you are talking bollocks"

wow, i take your points, guys, bravo.

you showed me!!!!!!

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:I have been making an effort recently to get back into boxing. (and as we all know, most things that require effort are usually not worth doing) and it'd just impossible to drum up any enthusiasm with the sport as things stand.

I'll tell you why, too, its not because of "streaming" (a name which to me, still conjures up images poor quality VHS recordings of Germans urinating on each other, rather than watching TV on your PC) nor the rise of MMA

Its because the promoters are all crap.

Watching UFC a bit recently I was struck at the "clarity" of the whole product, stories and characters are established quickly and clearly. X is a bad guy so we see him generally acting like a pudendum, Y is a good guy, so we see him making with the nice nice. They then make sure the audience knows both guys history, giving a story as to how we got to this point where these 2 guys are fighting (Boxing promoters are horrible at doing this, its like they have to keep it a secret) show them knocking some people out and its done.

The audience knows who, why, where, when.

Boxing promoters used to do this (Benn - Eubank, prime example) but seem to have gone in a different direction, they just don't give the public any reason to care about most fights. Look at how Carl Frotch has been "promoted" over the years, a talented, exciting, world champ like that should be doing 6 million viewers on Saturday nights. Not doing whatever he is doing at the moment. (I have no idea what he is doing, his promotional team havent let me know, alas)

Well there you go.

What a rubbish post.

Boxing has provided us with some great fights this year so you obviously haven't been trying too hard.

ufc actually peaked a few years ago and is declining in popularity in terms of ppv sales(which are exaggerated anyway)

I'll give ufc this, boring/average mma fights are more interesting to watch then boring/average boxing fights but only just. When boxing is good or great it shits on any mma fight that is good or great in terms of drama, excitement and action.

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:I have been making an effort recently to get back into boxing. (and as we all know, most things that require effort are usually not worth doing) and it'd just impossible to drum up any enthusiasm with the sport as things stand.

I'll tell you why, too, its not because of "streaming" (a name which to me, still conjures up images poor quality VHS recordings of Germans urinating on each other, rather than watching TV on your PC) nor the rise of MMA

Its because the promoters are all crap.

Watching UFC a bit recently I was struck at the "clarity" of the whole product, stories and characters are established quickly and clearly. X is a bad guy so we see him generally acting like a pudendum, Y is a good guy, so we see him making with the nice nice. They then make sure the audience knows both guys history, giving a story as to how we got to this point where these 2 guys are fighting (Boxing promoters are horrible at doing this, its like they have to keep it a secret) show them knocking some people out and its done.

The audience knows who, why, where, when.

Boxing promoters used to do this (Benn - Eubank, prime example) but seem to have gone in a different direction, they just don't give the public any reason to care about most fights. Look at how Carl Frotch has been "promoted" over the years, a talented, exciting, world champ like that should be doing 6 million viewers on Saturday nights. Not doing whatever he is doing at the moment. (I have no idea what he is doing, his promotional team havent let me know, alas)

Well there you go.

exittored wrote:What a rubbish post.

Well, duh!

exittored wrote:Boxing has provided us with some great fights this year so you obviously haven't been trying too hard.

Well no, i haven't been trying 2 hard, i shouldn't have to "try hard" FFS, its the promoters job to excite my interest bone (not that one) and make me want to watch the fights.

Again, you guys should all be promoters! Yeah, make your customers work hard! they are lucky we even let them in!

This is my point, you halfwits, UFC doesn't make you "work hard" to get interested, they give you the who, why, where, when and how.

Look at how Frank Maloney "promotes" his flights... he comes on screen, moans about why he couldn't get the fight he really wanted, is on the defensive from minute 1 and generally gives you the impression that its not going to be much fun at all.

exittored wrote:ufc actually peaked a few years ago and is declining in popularity in terms of ppv sales(which are exaggerated anyway)

Yes they have had a disappointing couple of years, however in 2010 over 15 shows they had 9,305,000 buys for a total of $465 million in PPV revenue. (This is most any company has ever done in the history of the universe, btw) 2011 is well down from that, but they have had bad luck with injuries.

exittored wrote:I'll give ufc this, boring/average mma fights are more interesting to watch then boring/average boxing fights but only just. When boxing is good or great it shits on any mma fight that is good or great in terms of drama, excitement and action.

As ive said above, im not a big fan of the sport itself, i much prefer the sport of boxing.

exittored wrote:There's only 4 types of men that watch the UFC: spotty teenage kids, old fat bouncers, gays and Pedophiles and that's a Fact.

[/quote]

Can I be 2 of the 4?

you want to know my point you say ?

My point is Fvck off , if you want to talk about how great ufc is then join a ufc forum , sick of peope coming on here saying how great it is , i joined a boxing forum to talk boxing , regardless of if people think its in decline or not , im here to talk about the fights , the passion , the drama and the controversy

We all have ideas as to wat we can do to improve the sport , comparing it to a completely different sport isnt the answer , people who know about boxing know that fighters have to be built up to become what they end up being , ufc dont do that and thats because theyve already had their building up period in other smaller promotions , if you must compare ufc to boxing then do it like for like , compare it to say top rank , or allegedly or matchroom , if you want to compare the 2 sports as a whole then talk about boxing and mma not boxing an ufc , who are an individual promotion , as a whole boxing is in a far healthier position than mma , mma has no regulation , promtotions come and go on a daily basis , what mma promotion has been around longer than the top boxing promotions , not many if any .

edit : couple of bad spelling mistakes changed

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote: X is a bad guy so we see him generally acting like a pudendum.

Thank Christ the Walsh brothers have turned up on time!

There are parts of the world where boxing is still successful, it needs a shake up in the UK though. I go along with what you say though, I would watch Naseem Hamed hoping to see him get sparked out.

observer1 wrote:Boxing was more or less finished a few years ago.

Titles don't mean anything.

It attracts nothing but meatheads looking for someone to get his face kicked in.

Once Mayweather, Pac and Hopkins retire. Boxing will be as good as gone.

If someone has 1 loss, he is "a Bum, over-rated" etc.

Its about who beats who anymore, it's about who doesn't lose etc.

Dang, with some Mayweather/Pac fans, it's about who can earn the most money etc.

I think alot of longtime boxing fans will be the first to jump ship. This "Sport" is nothing but a bad joke now.

Boxing died when Marciano retired. I thought everyone knew that.

damianhucker1 wrote:#, mma has no regulation ,

It has exactly the same regulation as boxing in the US (state athletic and boxing commissions) and while it does not have a governing body in the UK, boxing has the famously well run BBBoC.......

Many MMA people dont want the BBBoC anywhere near their sport.

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:#, mma has no regulation ,

It has exactly the same regulation as boxing in the US (state athletic and boxing commissions) and while it does not have a governing body in the UK, boxing has the famously well run BBBoC.......

well seeing as this is the british and irish section of boxrec , ill repeat mma has no regulation , say what you want about the BBBoC , but most countries would love to have the same level of governance

the people who wont want mma to be governed properly are probably all on roids and/or growth , they dont want to be drug tested , anyone truly passionate about a sport would in my view want it o be more official and more organised , surely .

Is UFC the one in a cage where the fighters look as if they are trying to bum each other?

Some promoters, the likes of IJL, Parris, O'connor, the bad jokes of the "world" sanctioning bodies, even the BBBofC (not to mention the whole journeymen farce) seem sometimes to be making a determined effort to wreck our sport. Nevertheless there are still some shining examples of decent honest fighters doing their best to stem the tide. Win or lose, top guys like (for example) Darren Barker keep the flag flying high. They do sometimes seem to be fighting a losing battle though.

damianhucker1 wrote:you want to know my point you say ?

My point is Fvck off , if you want to talk about how great ufc is then join a ufc forum , sick of peope coming on here saying how great it is , i joined a boxing forum to talk boxing , regardless of if people think its in decline or not , im here to talk about the fights , the passion , the drama and the controversy

Ok, if you object so much then maybe dont read threads like this, never mind posting in them, FFS....

And i was here well before you were mate, and i am sick of people coming on here with such a narrow world view "I dont like it, therefore noone should talk about it"

damianhucker1 wrote:We all have ideas as to wat we can do to improve the sport , comparing it to a completely different sport isnt the answer

Completely different? oh come on, UFC and the various boxing promotions are trying to sell you exactly the same thing (a fight between 2 men) one is doing great, the other lot, shit.

damianhucker1 wrote:people who know about boxing know that fighters have to be built up to become what they end up being , ufc dont do that and thats because theyve already had their building up period in other smaller promotions , if you must compare ufc to boxing then do it like for like , compare it to say top rank , or allegedly or matchroom

I am comparing them to FW, Matchroom et al who just dont seem to be able to make people care about the fights

damianhucker1 wrote:

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:#, mma has no regulation ,

It has exactly the same regulation as boxing in the US (state athletic and boxing commissions) and while it does not have a governing body in the UK, boxing has the famously well run BBBoC.......

well seeing as this is the british and irish section of boxrec , ill repeat mma has no regulation , say what you want about the BBBoC , but most countries would love to have the same level of governance

the people who wont want mma to be governed properly are probably all on roids and/or growth , they dont want to be drug tested , anyone truly passionate about a sport would in my view want it o be more official and more organised , surely .

Drugs testing in boxing?????



hahahahahah hhahha


oh my god, drugs testing in boxing is even worse than in MMA!!!

Oh come on, ever heard of a fighter called "Manny Pacquiao"

Yes we may well be in the British section of the forum, but as an ex-pat, I see everything with a global perspective.

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:you want to know my point you say ?

My point is Fvck off , if you want to talk about how great ufc is then join a ufc forum , sick of peope coming on here saying how great it is , i joined a boxing forum to talk boxing , regardless of if people think its in decline or not , im here to talk about the fights , the passion , the drama and the controversy

Ok, if you object so much then maybe dont read threads like this, never mind posting in them, FFS....

And i was here well before you were mate, and i am sick of people coming on here with such a narrow world view "I dont like it, therefore noone should talk about it"

damianhucker1 wrote:We all have ideas as to wat we can do to improve the sport , comparing it to a completely different sport isnt the answer

Completely different? oh come on, UFC and the various boxing promotions are trying to sell you exactly the same thing (a fight between 2 men) one is doing great, the other lot, shit.

damianhucker1 wrote:people who know about boxing know that fighters have to be built up to become what they end up being , ufc dont do that and thats because theyve already had their building up period in other smaller promotions , if you must compare ufc to boxing then do it like for like , compare it to say top rank , or allegedly or matchroom

I am comparing them to FW, Matchroom et al who just dont seem to be able to make people care about the fights

you was here before me , who gives a flying fvck , the type of garbage your writing you may as well have joined yesterday , you say you are omparing to the promotors , no your not , your comparing one promotion , try comparing the top 10 promotions from each sport , thats a fairer assesment , and i completely disagree with you saying theyre both promoting the same thing , if thats the case why on earth is mma so boring to watch.

why are so many boxers known to the non boxing fan , maybe not like they used to be but most people know who the top fighters are , more so than they do in mma , i only know maybe half a dozen mma fighters , and thats considering 2 of those i know because they are from the same city as me , i couldnt say who is the better f them , as ive no idea , its doesnt appeal to me and in the whole that applies to the wider spectator , theres far more boxing fans than mma , by a vast number .