BoxRec

Hi guys, does anyone of have a photo of the Arena at Charing Cross, London which was a boxing venue in the early part of the 20th century?

These guys may have one

http://blog.boxinghistory.org.uk/2011/1 ... r-saw.html

The Charing Cross Arena opened for boxing on May 26th 1909. The promoter was John Robarts. The opening night featured Willie Lewis (USA) v Andrew Jeptha (South Africa) and on the following night, May 27th, Joe Jeanette sparred there against Trooper Cooke and Harry Shearing, stopping them both in two and four rounds respectively. The venue had previously been known as Gatti's Music Hall. It stood in Villiers Street, underneath the arches of Charing Cross Station, see this link :

http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/Gattis.htm

You will see that there is a drawing of the venue on this website link.

I have never seen a photograph of the building but should you ever find one then please let me know. Why are you interested ? Can I help further ? I know a lot about the boxing contests that took place there.

Miles Templeton
http://www.prewarboxing.co.uk
http://blog.boxinghistory.org.uk

Im trying to determine if I have a film of the Willie Lewis-Andrew Jeptha fight. Do you have any information on whether or not this fight was filmed?

I would be surprised if it was. Why ?

1. I have the original report of the bout, and reports prior to the contest of the Arena opening, from the Sporting Life. At no point was mention made of 'the cinematograph' being there to film the bout.. At this time such reference was usually made if the bout was to be filmed. Nor is there any reference afterwards to the film of the fight being shown either in the Arena or elsewhere. Commonly films of boxing matches were shown again afterwards in local music halls or cinemas and they were frequently advertised. I have seen no such advertisements.

2. I think that the building was poorly lit as it was built underneath the railway arches. This would have necessitated very significant artificial lighting for the bout to have been filmed. If this had been in place then I think the fight report may have referred to it as such lighting often caused excessive heat and this did tend to get commented on, as it could prove uncomfortable for the boxers and the attendees.

3. The building was not particularly suitable for film, unlike the National Sporting Club, where most bouts that were filmed in the UK took place at this time.

I may be wrong of course, but these are just my considered opinions. I would love to see film of Jeptha nonetheless. I do understand that some film of him does exist.

I have film of Jeptha but Im just not sure if this is one them. I take it the arena at Charing Cross was indoors? If so then this is not that fight, as this film is shot outdoors within what looks like a city setting, or at least sorrounded by buildings.

Brilliant. I would like to look into this. Firstly, are we sure this is a UK bout ? It certainly looks like it is. But it could be France. How much do you know about the film already ? It is definitely not the Arena bout as that was indoors. Could it be an exhibition ?

I have no information about the film and you are correct, its possible that it does not originate in England or even Europe. I would probably date it prior to 1913 and would guess the two fighters are no bigger than welterweights if that. Frankly Im not convinced the white fighter is Willie Lewis as I have a lot of film on him (relatively speaking) and I would guess him to be bigger than this guy. The other guy however looks a lot like Jeptha. Also, the ring announcer looks familiar as well but I have as yet been unable to place him despite going through tons of old photos and films. It could be an exhibition although two things stand out, the crowd is awfully big and it was filmed, given the era this suggests some importance beyond an exhibition. Another clue is that the black fighter loses by KO.

It just doesn't look like a British crowd to me.

I'd expect a sea of cloth caps not the headwear that's on display in those pictures.

It may not be British, I was focusing on Jeptha. If it is Jeptha its probably Britain given the time period, although France is not unlikely either.

I have two pretty good pictures of Jeptha and this chap in the film does look like him. The headwear within the crowd is typical of British fashion during that period, they didn't all wear cloth caps by any means. I would date this film to about 1908.

Jeptha had one outdoor bout during this period, a bout at the Victoria Running Grounds, Newcastle-upon-Tyne on June 23 1909 against Tom Lancaster. This is definitely not that bout as the opponent in this film looks nothing like Lancaster. The other possibility is a bout he had against Dave Peters at the Mountain Ash Pavilion in June 1910. This bout took place in the evening however, according to the report in 'Boxing' and so I think this contest can also be ruled out. The Pavilion was generally an indoor arena with the occasional outdoor event in the Summer. Jeptha retired in two against Peters. Is it the case that Jeptha (if that is him) got kayoed in the film ? Kayoed as opposed to stopped that is, ie down for ten, That would help matters.

The fighter who looks like Jeptha is KOd by a right to the body. He goes down and is counted out.

Bingo. I think I figured it out! This was very interesting and something that is absolutely enjoyable to me. I love getting old unidentified footage and figuring out what it is. In reviewing for our conversations here I noticed something that stood out to me, which I had never noticed before. The fighters go to the corners across from each other, not diagnal from each other (in other words the are both in the back two corners). There is only one reason I can think for this being done: So that they would both be clearly visible to the camera's aperture. Meaning this was done specifically with motion pictures in mind. Another thing I had forgotten about is that while the film isnt titled, it does have titles between rounds stating the round number. Prior to the round where the black fighter is KOd it says "Round 17 and KO" I got to thinking. If this was a fake fight, and done strictly for the cameras, it had to be done for a purpose because a lot of money was spent to make it look authentic, even down to large crowd involved. It had to be a re-enactment of a real fight. Such filmed re-enactments were popular around the turn of the century. I made a quick guess and looked up Joe Gans record as he was one of the most popular black fighters during this era. Lo and Behold he lost his second fight to Battling Nelson on KO in the 17th round due to bodypunches. A filmed re-enactment exists of the third fight between Gans and Nelson (although the quality is much inferior to this one) and so I think its likely this is a similar film depicting their second fight. I will now go back and research whether or a fake film was ever circulated at the time. very interesting, and very fun :)

Good on you Klompton. As you say, most enjoyable. Let me know if I can ever be of assistance with UK fighters.

Miles Templeton
http://www.prewarboxing.co.uk
http://blog.boxinghistory.org.uk

Here is a picture from Manchester in 1909 where Man Utd are parading the FA Cup:

http://www.1909replayed.org/images/facf12.jpg

That is my point about the headwear. For me it is extremely unusual to not see a single cloth cap in an English sporting crowd from circa 1910.

You have a very good point Bladder. Not to see a single cloth cap in this era in the UK is unusual, I will give you that !

However, here is a photo of Wembley Stadium in 1924 (still well within the cloth cap era), there are one or two cloth caps dotted about but it is a bit like playing Where's Wally, most people have alternative headgear. Plenty of quality hats though.

http://www.prewarboxing.co.uk/

In case you are interested the shot is taken during Jack Bloomfield v Tommy Gibbons.

I like a nice trilby myself.

Miles

I would have to agree that there just doesnt seem to be an .English
vibe from the crowd in some of the photographs.
More like a Commonwealth vibe.
British Columbia perhaps?
Some of the men look like the actually had some sun on their faces!