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Jimmy takes the future...from the past

Posted: 26 Jan 2004, 16:37
by bennie
Kindly reproduced from Boxingaddicts.com by permission of the author:

I've always maintained that the 'Broughton Rules' were the best, however in these modern times they would have to be slightly modified. My rules would be as follows:

Divisions

Heavyweight - 14 stone + / 196lbs+
Light heavyweight - 14 stone / 196lbs
Super middleweight - 13 stone / 182lbs
Middleweight - 12 stone / 168lbs
Welterweight - 11 stone / 154lbs
Lightweight - 10 stone / 140lbs
Featherweight - 9 Stone / 126lbs
Bantamweight - 8 Stone / 112lbs

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Basics

- Two fighters wearing 8oz gloves

- One referee

- No judges

- 2-3 cornermen

- Mouthguard and cup mandatory

- Shorts

- Boots

- Socks

- Tapes (no more than 3.5 meters per hand)

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Rules

- A bell sounds the beginning of the contest

- A round is only over when one of the fighters is felled by a punch

- He (the felled boxer) then has 30 seconds to recover and resume fighting - during this 30 seconds both men can take in fluids, receive treatment on cuts and swellings and generally have a breather. Exactly 30 seconds after the fighter was dropped a bell is sounded and the fight resumes (providing both fighters are capable).

- The bout continues until:

a) Either fighter does not answer the bell after a knockdown.

b) Either fighter drops his hands and retires (gives best).

c) The towel is thrown in by either fighters corner.

d) The referee may stop the contest on a disqualification only.

Referees commands:

- Box
- Stop boxing
- Break
- That's a warning for head-butting (or any other offence)
- One more foul and you're out (see below)
- You're disqualified

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Grounds for disqualification

note - The referee can use his discretion with the basic guide that follows, however should he make blatant errors in his judgement he will face disciplinary procedures from the governing body.

Fouls:

- Striking an opponent with any body part excluding the knuckle
- Excessive clinching and holding
- Striking an opponent any lower than the naval
- Striking an opponent on the back of the body or head

Other disciplinary issues:

- Apart from the contestants and the referee nobody can enter the ring during a round.
- At the end of a round - when either fighter is knocked down - one cornerman for each fighter is permitted to enter the ring to assist his charge.

The general rule of thumb for referees is to use common sense, for less serious and malicious acts a verbal warning will suffice, when repeated or more viscious misdemeanors are carried out disqualification becomes an option.

Except for biting (which results in immediate disqualification) the referee must verbally state to the fighter concerned: ''One more foul and you're out'', when he deems that a fighters infringements are serious enough to be bordering disqualification. Should the fighter re-offend he MUST carry out the threat.


Weigh-ins and drugs:

- Performance enhancing drugs are not permitted, all fighters will be tested at least twice per year at random, they will also give pre and post fight urine, blood and swab samples for analysis. If a positive test is found, the boxer faces an automatic three year ban and is fined the sum total of his previous fights purse. The banned drug list is the same as the IOC.

- A fighter will have two weigh ins, the first will be 24 hours before the fight, here he must make the fight limit e.g. 10 stone, he will then be weighed in within 1 hour of the fight, if he exceeds the weight limit by more than 3% he will not be allowed to fight.

A weigh in 3 weeks before a fight is also a possibilty although it may be logistically impossible. If it was enforced a fighter must be within 9% of his fighting weight at that stage or the fight would be cancelled
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JWB (Jimmy's World Boxing) Titles

- One national title belt for each weight category
- One world title belt for each weight category

(I'll work on the rankings system another time)

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So there's my rules, they still need a bit of work and some may not agree with the structure. But I like them. Obviously we may end up with some really long matches, but that's all good by me.
By all means critique them.

Posted: 26 Jan 2004, 16:40
by stujones
I've found a different stance on a fairly similar subject on another thread. I quite like the theory, but I think its an impossibility due to health reasons.

Here is the quote.

Its time to reorganize the weight classes

I believe the all of the original eight weight classes were institutionalized into the game in the early 1900’s. They are: Heavyweight, Light-heavyweight, Middleweight, Welterweight, Lightweight, Featherweight, Bantamweigh, Flyweight. Ah, now that felt good to write. I thought for a moment, how were these weight classes decided? Logically, it must have been divided up to suit the population of the times. Upon further review, it appears the initial median weight is between Welter ( 147 ) and Lightweight ( 130 ), which is 138.5 pounds.

Does that mean the average man weighed 138.5 pounds in 1905? Probably. Internet searches reveal the average man stood 5'7" at the turn of the century. So, when the divisions came about, the slotting of the weights made perfect sense.

Lets fast forward to 2004. The average American female weight can be found between light weight and welter weight. This is 2004, and I for one suggest its time for boxing to reorganize its own weight classes.

I am for a consolidation of the weight classes. The talent is spread too thin to support 17 weight classes, excluding the ludicrous super’s and Junior’s hybrids. Although its unlike for an alphabet organization to voluntary close shop on their champions, they can streamline their own weight classes, which would insure better competition. Better competition defines champions. Better champions sell tickets.

Here’s what I propose.

Combine:

Straw with junior flyweights with flyweights 110 pounds = new Flyweight

junior bantamweights with bantamweights, and junior feather weights 118 pounds = New bantam weight

featherweights with junior lightweights 128 pounds = New feather weight

lightweights with junior welterweights 138 pounds = New light weight

welterweights with junior middle weights 150 pounds = New Welter weights

middleweights with super middleweights 165 pounds = New Middle weight

light heavyweights with crusiers 183 pounds = New Light heavy weight

heavyweights Over 199+ = New Heavyweight

This would bring you closer in line (although not perfectly) with the original 8 weight classes concept, while at the same time more accurately reflecting the weights of the worlds population. Toadies weight classes are but paper barriers. More often than not, fighters dry themselves out to make weight, then enter the ring one, two or sometimes three weight classes above the belts they are fighting for. Under my proposed systems, you see less shenanigans on the scales, and more competitive weight classes. Just one man’s opinion.

Posted: 26 Jan 2004, 16:42
by bennie
Good thread this. Something needs to be done about the current game. I wholly admire those who stand up and offer an alternative. It's too easy just to tolerate today's mess.

Posted: 26 Jan 2004, 16:46
by steve689
While i do not agree fully with all the says i commend his offerings for changes that Boxing clearly needs. However doing away with judges does not seem a healthy option, more strain would be placed on referees.

Posted: 26 Jan 2004, 16:46
by Freiheit
stujones wrote:

light heavyweights with crusiers 183 pounds = New Light heavy weight

heavyweights Over 199+ = New Heavyweight
What about fighters between 183 and 199?

Posted: 26 Jan 2004, 16:48
by steve689
Freiheit wrote:
stujones wrote:

light heavyweights with crusiers 183 pounds = New Light heavy weight

heavyweights Over 199+ = New Heavyweight
What about fighters between 183 and 199?
They are exempt from Boxing :D

Posted: 26 Jan 2004, 16:51
by stujones
My problem with the 2nd suggestion, which is not my own (as I stated) and with reducing the weight categories is that the mentality of fighters have changed since the old days.

Fighters like Ricky Hatton and Joe Calzaghe struggle to make sure they have the advantage in strength by fighting lower of their "walk around" weight. So is it fair for Hatton to fight a guy with a 10 -15 lbs natural weight advantage at 150 lbs, which would be the case if the 2nd suggestion was authorised. He'll face fighter who easily walk around at 165 lbs or more.

In the glory days of this sport people used to fight more often for less money, they tended to fight around their natural walking weight - these days the money is so much that they'll resort to all kinds of strenous things to make the weight, and have a natural strength advantage, its kind of like cheating. Its just not possible.

Although, I'm sure it was due to financial gains that these Super and Junior/Light devision were formed, there was a health aspect. Still fighters like Paul Ingle didn't listen.

Posted: 26 Jan 2004, 18:55
by jamesmcdonnell
No way would I revert to one referee judging.

I have always thought that a referee is far too busy to objectively score a fight, his mind should be on the fight itself, rather than scoring it.

I would have thought four judges would be better than 4 too. Have 1 judge on each side of the ring on a raised chair rather like that of an umpire in tennis.

The view from ringside is far from perfect I've always wondered why they don't do that.

I wouldn't want to return to the days when rounds end when someone is dropped. With modern strength training, fighters would get absolutely pounded senseless.

Posted: 26 Jan 2004, 19:07
by bennie
jamesmcdonnell wrote:No way would I revert to one referee judging.

I have always thought that a referee is far too busy to objectively score a fight, his mind should be on the fight itself, rather than scoring it.

I would have thought four judges would be better than 4 too. Have 1 judge on each side of the ring on a raised chair rather like that of an umpire in tennis.

The view from ringside is far from perfect I've always wondered why they don't do that.

I wouldn't want to return to the days when rounds end when someone is dropped. With modern strength training, fighters would get absolutely pounded senseless.
Talking of views from ringside, allegedly stuck the Boxing News boys behind pillars again at Wembley on Saturday. I believe they only wrote what they saw as a result...very little.

Posted: 26 Jan 2004, 19:14
by Hardhitters11
If you check out the dodgy decisions thread over at boxingaddicts.com there are some pretty good points on there Bennie...

The thing is so many people complain but never come up with a solution

Its good when people offer their ideas even if they are a bit wild.

HH

Posted: 27 Jan 2004, 06:07
by JimStone
James,
In my (Jimmy's) solution the referee would not be judging, the fighters would.

'Fatigue makes cowards of us all'

Whilst the above is harsh it is a fact, the human survival instinct is very strong and if you are getting beaten like a drum and know that only you (or perhaps your cornermen - who should care) can stop that beating you'll 'give best', drop your hands and congratulate your conqueror. There's not many who'll keep fighting 'till they die when there's a get out clause i.e giving up.

Posted: 27 Jan 2004, 10:31
by stujones
Freiheit wrote:
stujones wrote:

light heavyweights with crusiers 183 pounds = New Light heavy weight

heavyweights Over 199+ = New Heavyweight
What about fighters between 183 and 199?
Hi,

I asked this very question (after you pointed out the flaw) and here is the response.

Regarding the fighters from 183-199, they might as well all be light heavies. The light heavy and cruiser weight division are mostly void of talent ( Excluding Roy Jones ). Most light heavies enter the ring above 175 pounds anyway. So how far off are they from crusier? In my opinion Tarver and Jones could beat any Crusier weight champ. In short, I'm for combining these two divisions. The fans would see better fights. Better fights is the key for the survival of the sport, not some alphabet hack fighting no nanes, then claiming to the public that the fight itself is significant.