BoxRec

Hey guys, just as question my girlfriend asked me tonight, I watched this video:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/15616563.stm

That was back in 1989 and Ali's speech wasn't normal. When did this decline start?

If you watch the movie THE GREATEST(released May 1977),
there is one scene were Ali is giving a post fight interview.
Thats when I first noticed his speech sounded a little slurred.
My guess that scene was filmed around the time of his third fight
with Ken Norton.

Brutu wrote:If you watch the movie THE GREATEST(released May 1977),
there is one scene were Ali is giving a post fight interview.
Thats when I first noticed his speech sounded a little slurred.
My guess that scene was filmed around the time of his third fight
with Ken Norton.

Wow, that's pretty early, I though that it was deteriorating around the mid 80s, but that's very early. :(

Crease wrote:

Brutu wrote:If you watch the movie THE GREATEST(released May 1977),
there is one scene were Ali is giving a post fight interview.
Thats when I first noticed his speech sounded a little slurred.
My guess that scene was filmed around the time of his third fight
with Ken Norton.

Wow, that's pretty early, I though that it was deteriorating around the mid 80s, but that's very early. :(

It's not really surprising that the deterioration of his speech started when he was still fighting since that's what was doing the damage that caused the deterioration. There are several fighters still going now that make me wince when I hear them interviewed.

You can detect a noticeable slurring and slowing of Ali's speech in the late 70s. I remember seeing him in interview clips from the Foreman fight in 74 back to back with clips of him around the Spinks rematch (less than 4 years later) and the difference is highly noticeable.

Earliest I've seen is build up to the Holmes fight

well you know Muhammad Ali's natural voice is not really hyper.
He naturally talked kind of slow and deliberate as most people do from Louisville Kentucky.
Check out his being interviewed in the gym before the fight with Zora Folley in 1967.
He talks slow and natural and then goes into his"I am the Greatest" schtick all the sudden.
Also check out the trailer for SUPERFIGHT Marciano vs Ali
filmed in July 1969.
I just thought he seemed to slur his words a little in that one scene in THE GREATEST(1977)but I could be wrong.

Tnks for the all the input guys. It's a saddening topic.

If you watch his entrance to the ring for the fight with Earnie Shavers September.29.1977.
IMOP Ali did not look well at all.
He looked ashen and a ghost of himself.
But he still managed to whup Shavers behind after 15 rounds,despite some right handed BOMBS landed on him.
Dr. Ferdie Pecheco quit the team after that fight,
but his main concern was the damage to Ali's kidney's over his career at the time I believe.
Dr.Pacheco had written a book a few years ago on Ali,but I can't remember if he had mentioned when he noticed it.

Adamj1987 wrote:Earliest I've seen is build up to the Holmes fight

That's when I first noticed it also.

Brutu wrote:If you watch his entrance to the ring for the fight with Earnie Shavers September.29.1977.
IMOP Ali did not look well at all.
He looked ashen and a ghost of himself.
But he still managed to whup Shavers behind after 15 rounds,despite some right handed BOMBS landed on him.
Dr. Ferdie Pecheco quit the team after that fight,
but his main concern was the damage to Ali's kidney's over his career at the time I believe.
Dr.Pacheco had written a book a few years ago on Ali,but I can't remember if he had mentioned when he noticed it.

I would look "ashen and a ghost of [my]self" if I was climbing into the ring to face a puncher like Shavers . . .

Shavers landed a right hand on Ali in the second right that almost looked like it
could have broken Ali's neck.
It looked like a harder punch then the one that dropped Holmes
in the Holmes-Shavers title fight later.

IMOP Ali looked like he came to particpate in a charity exhibition instead of a title fight with one of boxing's most dangerous punchers ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfQ56hSXGV0

...brutu...that punch was so hard you could actually hear it on the tv microphones. once again an example of how so many ofthe guys who could take terrific punches paid for it later with brain damage.

...and yes, pacheco said ali had significant kidney damage. he quit the ali team when ali wouldn't listen to him and consider retiring.

There was another video tape version of Ali vs Shavers that was on youtube a few years ago.It was the version beamed to Britain live with the cameras
on the other side of the ring and oppiste corner from the live US telecast.

most brits would have noticed it during the appearance with parkinson (alongside freddy starr) not sure what year that was but it was around 79/80

J-C wrote:

Crease wrote:

Brutu wrote:If you watch the movie THE GREATEST(released May 1977),
there is one scene were Ali is giving a post fight interview.
Thats when I first noticed his speech sounded a little slurred.
My guess that scene was filmed around the time of his third fight
with Ken Norton.

Wow, that's pretty early, I though that it was deteriorating around the mid 80s, but that's very early. :(

It's not really surprising that the deterioration of his speech started when he was still fighting since that's what was doing the damage that caused the deterioration. There are several fighters still going now that make me wince when I hear them interviewed.

Evander Holyfield being one of them!

Brutu wrote:If you watch his entrance to the ring for the fight with Earnie Shavers September.29.1977.
IMOP Ali did not look well at all.
He looked ashen and a ghost of himself.
But he still managed to whup Shavers behind after 15 rounds despite some right handed BOMBS landed on him.
Dr. Ferdie Pecheco quit the team after that fight,
but his main concern was the damage to Ali's kidney's over his career at the time I believe.
Dr.Pacheco had written a book a few years ago on Ali,but I can't remember if he had mentioned when he noticed it.

He fvcking what!? You must be joking. It was life and death on the cards. I had it a draw. If Ali won, it was by two points AT MOST.

on the telecast they announced the judges scorecards after each round....dundee had a man watching the tv telecast.

just a vague memory from so many years ago. ali almost stopped shavers in the last few seconds. i had it something like 9-6.

*******************
okay. just took a break in typing and checked the SI story.

" After 12 rounds he led 8-4 on two of the official cards, 8-3-1 on the third"
(the final 9-5 ? 9-6 9-6 says boxrec)
tv story confirmed. dundee knew the score but wouldn't tell ali and told him he needed the last round.

from SI...the great pat putnam

"With less than a minute to go, Ali's body was screaming at him: no more, no more. Shuddering, the champion called once again on his tremendous willpower, and he launched perhaps his greatest offensive. Fury replacing fatigue, he swarmed over Shavers, pounding him without pause.

In Ali's corner Dundee watched with awe. "I don't know how you do it, you son of a bitch," he thought, "but I love you for it."

Stunned by the sudden storm. Shavers sagged. But not his spirit. A will almost the match of Ali's kept the challenger on his feet. This was the man some had called a dog. Watching Shavers, Cus D'Amato said, "It takes some people a long time to grow up. Tonight Shavers became a man."

The priceless moments ended with the final bell. Ali won, of course. And as he stood in his corner listening for the verdict he said in a voice that could scarcely be heard, "I'm tired. I'm so damn tired."

Later in his dimly lit dressing room Ali lay on a dressing table and moaned softly. Agony made prisoners of his legs; his swollen hands hurt him so badly that he tried not to move his fingers. The terrible body punishment Shavers had inflicted had left Ali's kidneys swollen, sore. He had demanded much more than his body was prepared to give, and now he was paying. "I'm through," he mumbled. "I don't need anyone else to tell me."

im through....if only

I had Ali winning over Shavers in a very fun, entertaining fight.

Ali's speech seemed to be in some decline during the Parkinson interview prior to the Holmes bout.

A sad situation but wow, what a man and what an impact he made on sport and boxing.

Crease wrote:Hey guys, just as question my girlfriend asked me tonight, I watched this video:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/15616563.stm

That was back in 1989 and Ali's speech wasn't normal. When did this decline start?

Definitely in the late 70s.

I remember seeing him on the TV show Diff'rent Strokes & that particular episode was from 1979 & he was hard to understand then.

I also saw a clip of him being interviewed by Michael Parkinson in 1981 & he was unrecognisable from the guy that charmed & amazed UK viewers the previous time he was interviewed in 1974; his face was lifeless & his speech muffled & slow.

Brutu wrote:Shavers landed a right hand on Ali in the second right that almost looked like it
could have broken Ali's neck.
It looked like a harder punch then the one that dropped Holmes
in the Holmes-Shavers title fight later.

That was a punch & a half & would have KOd or at least floored most other HWs in history.

I don't know how an ageing Ali managed to take that shot, although Ali did claim to be in a daze for the remaining 13 rounds, so it's any wonder he managed to stay upright, let alone win.

Brutu wrote:If you watch the movie THE GREATEST(released May 1977),
there is one scene were Ali is giving a post fight interview.
Thats when I first noticed his speech sounded a little slurred.
My guess that scene was filmed around the time of his third fight
with Ken Norton.

Yeah thats when it seemed to start, after Norton III

BO Selecta wrote:

Brutu wrote:Shavers landed a right hand on Ali in the second right that almost looked like it
could have broken Ali's neck.
It looked like a harder punch then the one that dropped Holmes
in the Holmes-Shavers title fight later.

That was a punch & a half & would have KOd or at least floored most other HWs in history.

I don't know how an ageing Ali managed to take that shot, although Ali did claim to be in a daze for the remaining 13 rounds, so it's any wonder he managed to stay upright, let alone win.

I make you right on that one.

Ali had one hell of a constitution to take that punch without falling, at that stage in his career too, that's for sure.

funso banjo baby wrote:most brits would have noticed it during the appearance with parkinson (alongside freddy starr) not sure what year that was but it was around 79/80

spot on. It wasnt 1977 after the shavers fight or the norton III fight cos he came to the UK in gateshead at the end of 77 and in a non fighting capacity his speech seemed fine.
He did seem slower, quieter and his face more vacant before holmes but the definitive answer when it could no longer be disputed there was something wrong with him was that parkinson appearence in 1981.
U only had to contrast it with the one in 1974 to see that.