BoxRec

Thought Id bring it in , carry on

Dioufy,, To continue, in my Gym I had a Guy, who was Tested with the fastest Reflexes ever Tested, By the Sports council testing Team. 6,000 of a second, yet He was the guy of all the Guys, who didnt qiute make it. Yet He wanted it as much as anybody else. His problem was His environment, also from being from a one parent Family, He lacked confidence. He like everyone was Shaped by His environment not His Genetics. True just one case, but its the same everywhere.

In any sport, people with natural talent and God-given abilities will always rise to the top. Give me the name of one dominant world-champion in any sport who you see as just an immensely hardworking pro who has broken the system. A person who had no natural talent to start off with but who developed into a superstar.

Did Usain Bolt run a 15 second 100m at school, but through sheer hardwork, not God-given abilities, he got to 9.58?

Ball cheese - the man is naturally fast, regardless of hardwork. Hardwork helped nuture that talent. But the natural abilities are fundermental. If you believe otherwise based on one baseless comparison then so be it. You won't make me think any different on this, matey.

I could use an example like Bolt in any sport.

He was Nurtured, working with a great set up of Runners and Coaches, in a great climate for Sprint Training. With His Build not made for Sprinting, He has done remarkable, says a lot for the Technique He has practiced. Dissect any athlete in any Sport, you will find Traits, surrounded by encouragement, to do well and Work hard at something you enjoy doing. It took me a long Time to agree with the Scientific Study done, but now I agree with it, on balance it seems logical

Are you saying Bolt isn't naturally fast? To run nearly 9.50 you need a lot more than nurturing and help with your technique, and the fact that he isn't built for sprinting only underlines the fact that his natural talents shine through. Of course, technique and nurturing play a part but without the natural ability he isn't going anywhere fast (pun intended). I can't believe I am having this debate to be honest, but let's say for example I decide to wanna break the world-record for the 5k (bare in mind I am not in immense shape) and I give the next few years of my life to it - I even enlist Alberto Salazer to help me. I eat right, I train as hard as physically possible. I do the right things. Do you believe I can come close to that record with nurturing, technique help and the right 'environment', - what ever that means? The answer is I'll be lucky to break 20 minutes.

This is insane.

Youre missing the point, if from an early age, you enjoy the sport, and have surrounding support, theres no reason it cant happen. What happens like in the case of Frankie, is His Psyhodynamics have changed, altering His outlook. It happens all the time, and changes perspective of His Consciousness to do. it happens all the time to everybody, some handle it some dont. It can happen early in life, or later.

Fascinating debate - I must admit that Bounce - How Champions Are Made by Matthew Syed really caused me to challenge a lot of my preconceptions.

Scrap, while I think there's a lot of truth in what you say, surely you have to accept that genetics plays a part? Rowing seems an obvious example whereby those who are taller simpler have an innate advantage.

Genetics do play a big part. For example, I am 5"8 with short legs , so that rules out the aforementioned 5k world record and I could never triple jump my dream of 19 metres :(. Actually due to my build, there's not many sports where I could get to the top even with the perfect training, environment and nurturing.

Yes, I could improve, but I couldn't excel.

Heres a little Story, A 40 year old Guy, a Farmer, was told by His Doctor To pack His job up, because He had a Dicky Heart. So worried, He told me, that He decided to start Jogging. Then found out He loved it, so kept on running, just like Forrest Gump . He broke more Long distance Records than anyone, Pennine Way 2 days Coast to coast Whitley Bay to St Johns Head 36 hours. Then went to the America and won a Big Mountain Race there, this was in His late 40s, plus He was 6ft, not made for long Distance Running. Joss Naylor OBE .

IMO hard work, dedication and belief are far more important traits to be found in champions than genetics and god given talent.

Funnily enough I came across a video on YouTube the other day about a man called Anthony Robles. Became a wrestling champion despite being born with one leg. If that doesn't prove that natural ability and genetics aren't neccesary I don't know what does.

Its something Ive called Sports Singularity, getting everything working at the same Time. Been working at it for the last 15 years. Retired now, really been retired for 15 years DD from Boxing. But not from thinling.

Andypittcov wrote:IMO hard work, dedication and belief are far more important traits to be found in champions than genetics and god given talent.

Agreed, but surely if two athletes with equal work ethic, dedication and belief were to compete, then the athlete with the greater physical attributes (i.e. genetics) relative to their discipline would come out on top?

A hard working swimmer with slender body, long limbs and size 16 feet would surely be at an advantage over a hard working swimmer with a naturally stocky body and short limbs?

I struggle to accept that genetics play no part in success. My take would have been that hard work, dedication and mind set allow an athlete to reach / maximise their genetic potential.

Loving this debate by the way!!!

Get your point, but most Athletes get directed by others and their self to the sport thats directed to there Ability and Body shape. Take Jonathan Edwards, wasnt the ideal build for the Triple Jump.

I agree with what your saying jono but it's unlikely 2 people will ever be working, living and thinking exactly the same way.

Neither wll there Parents D .I over the last few years, have spent some time in Football Academys. Its much more Fun watching the Parents, than Players

Would rate of absorption be considered nature? Some people absorb what their coaches tell them much quicker/better than others.

Scrap wrote:Neither wll there Parents D .I over the last few years, have spent some time in Football Academys. Its much more Fun watching the Parents, than Players

I know what you mean - I recently saw a 12yr old lad sparring in an exhibition match for his first time at an amateur show, and his pissed up dad was banging the ring apron, shouting "encouragement". Poor lad!

Dioufy wrote:In any sport, people with natural talent and God-given abilities will always rise to the top. Give me the name of one dominant world-champion in any sport who you see as just an immensely hardworking pro who has broken the system. A person who had no natural talent to start off with but who developed into a superstar.

Larry Bird was a great player but he was not fast nor jump very high. His work ethic is what made him Great

Who?

Scallum, funny that D . A Freind of mine, who was Professor of Osteopathy, at Harvard for 9 years. Plus He was the Celtics Consultant, Told me Larry was Best Physical Specimen He had ever seen.