BoxRec

Interested to hear your thoughts on Jones vs. Robinson at middleweight, how do you reckon it would go?

Jaclem will tell that if Robinson thought a guy was dangerous but stoppable then Ray would go after them early. He might do this and finish Roy quicker than expected.

I can't really see a scenario in which Jones wins.

I know we are in boxers of the past and i will be in a very small minority but this aint no walk in the park for Robinson. At middleweight Robinson struggled with Fullmer Basilio Ralph Jones and others. Ralph Jones damn sure aint Roy Jones. More times than not i see Robinson losing this one. Roy was bigger and faster and more elusive I think he could take this one because I'm not letting nostalgia consume me.

Mate the Robinson who was at his best at 160 wasn't the guy fighting Fullmer. Jones had a short career at 160 and was far from seasoned. Robinson was a little inconsistent at 160 but when he needed to win, he won.

I do agree that it wouldn't be easy but Jones isn't going to enjoy his usual speed advantage here.

Jones was naturally bigger but he wasn't quicker or more elusive.

Hard not to focus on the size difference really. Even during his middleweight career Robinson often didn't actually weigh 160lbs (for example when he won the title he weighed 155). With the 24hr weigh-in it's unlikely Jones ever actually weighed 160lbs in the ring. Stuff like that is way many people say you can't compare eras. Can't help but think that had these two have been around in the same era they would likely have been in different weight classes.

Could Roy beat the Sugar in his mid-late 30s who lost to Jones, Fullmer and Basilio? Sure. Beat the the peak middleweight Ray who stopped Olson and LaMotta? No way. Won't be an easy fight, but Ray was the more technically sound technician with the better chin and stamina. He's not going to be overwhelmed by Roy's speed like most of his opponents, but Ray's handspeed will be something Roy never had to deal with.

J-C wrote:Hard not to focus on the size difference really. Even during his middleweight career Robinson often didn't actually weigh 160lbs (for example when he won the title he weighed 155). With the 24hr weigh-in it's unlikely Jones ever actually weighed 160lbs in the ring. Stuff like that is way many people say you can't compare eras. Can't help but think that had these two have been around in the same era they would likely have been in different weight classes.

Robinson gave up at least 10 pounds to laMotta and Roy wasn't the kind of fighter to impose a weight advantage like Jake was. I agree with Dempsey, Roy doesn't carry any advantage into the ring other than a couple pounds. It wouldn't be enough as inexperienced as he was.

I think Roy Jones wins this fight with a hard fought decision

Ezzard wrote:Mate the Robinson who was at his best at 160 wasn't the guy fighting Fullmer. Jones had a short career at 160 and was far from seasoned. Robinson was a little inconsistent at 160 but when he needed to win, he won.

I do agree that it wouldn't be easy but Jones isn't going to enjoy his usual speed advantage here.

Jones was naturally bigger but he wasn't quicker or more elusive.

Indeed Robinson's fights with Fullmer were in the later 1950's when Robinson was certainly past his Middleweight prime. But Ralph "Tiger" Jones and Randy Turpin both held victories over a Middleweight Sugar Ray who was supposed to be closer to his prime years in the early 1950's. My point being, Robinson was beatable at Middleweight even at his best against the wrong guy. I think Roy Jones would be the wrong guy, and the comment that Jones was bigger, but not quicker or more elusive. Have you ever seen Robinson's Middleweight fights? I mean come on, Robinson wasn't exactly Pernell Whitaker in there ya know. I think Roy Jones would have a significant quickness advantage, Robinson would almost certainly have to be seen as the tougher of the two combatants, but would he have enough pop to stop Roy Jones? I just think Roy takes the victory in this one by points, maybe in a rematch Robinson could win, but he'd be thrown the first time by Jones' unorthodox style of attack

dempseyfire wrote:Could Roy beat the Sugar in his mid-late 30s who lost to Jones, Fullmer and Basilio? Sure. Beat the the peak middleweight Ray who stopped Olson and LaMotta? No way. Won't be an easy fight, but Ray was the more technically sound technician with the better chin and stamina. He's not going to be overwhelmed by Roy's speed like most of his opponents, but Ray's handspeed will be something Roy never had to deal with.

Excellent analysis, IMO!

gilgamesh wrote:I think Roy Jones wins this fight with a hard fought decision

Ezzard wrote:Mate the Robinson who was at his best at 160 wasn't the guy fighting Fullmer. Jones had a short career at 160 and was far from seasoned. Robinson was a little inconsistent at 160 but when he needed to win, he won.

I do agree that it wouldn't be easy but Jones isn't going to enjoy his usual speed advantage here.

Jones was naturally bigger but he wasn't quicker or more elusive.

Indeed Robinson's fights with Fullmer were in the later 1950's when Robinson was certainly past his Middleweight prime. But Ralph "Tiger" Jones and Randy Turpin both held victories over a Middleweight Sugar Ray who was supposed to be closer to his prime years in the early 1950's. My point being, Robinson was beatable at Middleweight even at his best against the wrong guy. I think Roy Jones would be the wrong guy, and the comment that Jones was bigger, but not quicker or more elusive. Have you ever seen Robinson's Middleweight fights? I mean come on, Robinson wasn't exactly Pernell Whitaker in there ya know. I think Roy Jones would have a significant quickness advantage, Robinson would almost certainly have to be seen as the tougher of the two combatants, but would he have enough pop to stop Roy Jones? I just think Roy takes the victory in this one by points, maybe in a rematch Robinson could win, but he'd be thrown the first time by Jones' unorthodox style of attack

The Turpin fight was legit, but the Tiger jones fights was deceiving. Robinson was 34 years old, and was just starting comeback after a three layoff. I think the welterweight Robinson who was beating LaMotta in the late 1940s was actually a better middlweight than the Robinson when he was weighing closer to the 160 limit when he was much older.

Doubtful that Roy Jones would have taken this fight anyway.

I love RJJ, i do. But him beating SUGAR? Hell NO! NO WAY! These guys fought several times a year and more than 12 rds. Sugar was a BEAST! Hands down the greatest fighter of all time in my opinion. His record spoke for itself. Pound for pound no one is touching him. Current boxing is built on what he has done, the man just never gave up and never stopped improving. He was a student and master in his craft. Prime for Prime, there arent too many fighters that can compete with Ray, especially not Roy. And I am a fan of the Roy. Would be an entertaining fight though, but Roy goes down in that one.

What stamina issues did Roy ever show in his prime?

King Carlos wrote:What stamina issues did Roy ever show in his prime?

roccittymaj wrote:I love RJJ, i do. But him beating SUGAR? Hell NO! NO WAY! These guys fought several times a year and more than 12 rds. Sugar was a BEAST! Hands down the greatest fighter of all time in my opinion. His record spoke for itself. Pound for pound no one is touching him. Current boxing is built on what he has done, the man just never gave up and never stopped improving. He was a student and master in his craft. Prime for Prime, there arent too many fighters that can compete with Ray, especially not Roy. And I am a fan of the Roy. Would be an entertaining fight though, but Roy goes down in that one.

If you are refering to that line, it wasnt a statement of stamina. Sugar fought over 25 years with 200 fights. It is just a statement about how tough he was, not about stamina. He was a fighter from a different class, that hard-nosed, civil rights, great depression, just tough ass boxer!

gilgamesh wrote:Indeed Robinson's fights with Fullmer were in the later 1950's when Robinson was certainly past his Middleweight prime. But Ralph "Tiger" Jones and Randy Turpin both held victories over a Middleweight Sugar Ray who was supposed to be closer to his prime years in the early 1950's. My point being, Robinson was beatable at Middleweight even at his best against the wrong guy. I think Roy Jones would be the wrong guy, and the comment that Jones was bigger, but not quicker or more elusive. Have you ever seen Robinson's Middleweight fights? I mean come on, Robinson wasn't exactly Pernell Whitaker in there ya know. I think Roy Jones would have a significant quickness advantage, Robinson would almost certainly have to be seen as the tougher of the two combatants, but would he have enough pop to stop Roy Jones? I just think Roy takes the victory in this one by points, maybe in a rematch Robinson could win, but he'd be thrown the first time by Jones' unorthodox style of attack

SRR was fighting about 15 times a year during the period when he lost to Turpin. In fact, the Turpin loss was SRRs 5th fight in about a 31 day period. I feel pretty confident that if Jones fought the same type of schedule that Ray fought he probably would have lost in an upset somewhere along the line, and probably against a lesser fighter than Turpin. And the Jones fight was his second fight after a 2 1/2 year layoff and came about 2 weeks after his first fight back.

RJJ would have been a very difficult fight for just about any MW in history, but I'm pretty confident that a highly experienced, peak MW version of SRR would have been able to figure out a way to beat him.

I always make the same point John, but natives of Planet Roy are immune to the logic.

For the record my admiration of Sugar Ray Robinson far outweighs my admiration of Roy Jones. I just think Roy could beat Ray if they fought at Middleweight. I certainly wouldn't guarantee it. That's just my opinion

gilgamesh wrote:For the record my admiration of Sugar Ray Robinson far outweighs my admiration of Roy Jones. I just think Roy could beat Ray if they fought at Middleweight. I certainly wouldn't guarantee it. That's just my opinion

Ditto

I can't believe we are even discussing this... Sugar Ray wins!!!

As a point of interest: Directed to those of you who pick Roy Jones Jr to win...

Who has Jones Jr defeated in his career that makes you think he could efeat a Sugar Ray Robinson???

Crease wrote:

I can't believe we are even discussing this... Sugar Ray wins!!!

Welcome to Planet Roy D

Exactly, I don't see that logic either! SRR wins big time.

Crease wrote:As a point of interest: Directed to those of you who pick Roy Jones Jr to win...

Who has Jones Jr defeated in his career that makes you think he could efeat a Sugar Ray Robinson???

Vice versa?

The End wrote:

Crease wrote:As a point of interest: Directed to those of you who pick Roy Jones Jr to win...

Who has Jones Jr defeated in his career that makes you think he could efeat a Sugar Ray Robinson???

Vice versa?

You're kidding, right?

The Great John L wrote:

The End wrote:

Crease wrote:As a point of interest: Directed to those of you who pick Roy Jones Jr to win...

Who has Jones Jr defeated in his career that makes you think he could efeat a Sugar Ray Robinson???

Vice versa?

You're kidding, right?

Couldn't answer could you?

For those who think size would have been a major factor in favor of a RJJ win it's fair to point out that SRR easily handled Maxim at 175 before he suffered the heath stroke and Maxim was a strong dude.