BoxRec

Does Carl Froch equal Calzaghe's career if he beats Andre Ward ?

Calzaghe was undefeated, fought and beat the likes of Eubank, Bika, Lacy, Kessler, Hopkins and Jones. Eubank was way past his prime at the time, Bika was good but nothing special, Lacy was more hype than reality, Jones was practically shot and Hopkins was on old version who lost a fight many thought he actually won. The stand out opponent is Kessler, in his prime and Calzaghe beat him fair and square. Froch's resume includes wins against Pascal, Taylor, Dirrel, Abraham and Johnson, with that one loss to Kessler. Pascal was young and fresh, though inexperienced, Taylor was a huge name who had his reputation severly dented by Kelly Pavlik, Dirrel is good but nothing special, Johnson is an old guy who is difficult to look good against and Abraham is a quality fighter who has had a dip in form. The two stand out wins are Taylor, but most of all Abraham, but those fights are diluted slightly by the loss to Kessler. If Froch beats Ward, will he be seen in the same light as Calzaghe ? Or does Froch have to beat Kessler to achieve that status ? Or if he beat Kessler in a re-match, does he go above Calzaghe. I can also see Froch possibly moving up to light heavyweight and taking on Hopkins and Dawson or a re-match with Pascal ?? One to think about !!

What do you guys think ?

Beat Ward and 1 significant win at LHW should do it

Beat ward then move up to LH, I could honestly see a Froch v Cleverly fight in 2012

Also Reid, Woodhall and Mitchell on Calzaghe's resume, still a long way above Froch.

bugs wrote:Also Reid, Woodhall and Mitchell on Calzaghe's resume, still a long way above Froch.

Woodhall was a good win. I still don't think he beat Reid, despite what the judges said (Ottke did not beat Reid either, in my opinion) and the Mitchell 'win' was very, very premature.

So really, in my opinion, its the Woodhall, Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins (dubious) wins, which are better than Froch's wins but not by much. Froch beat Taylor who beat Hopkins twice, Dirrell (contentious, I thought he lost that one), Abraham, Johnson and if he beats Ward, who beat Kessler fair more comfortably than Calzaghe, then he is not all that far off.

Kessler after more injuries and a long layoff though, also dont forget the Lacy before the Calzaghe fight was a monster and Joe did not just beat him, he destroyed him as a fighter, fight should really have been stopped as early as the 8th.

Also Calazaghe beathing Brewer, Starie and Delaney are all good solid wins that never get mentioned.

He would need to beat Kessler and also remember the aged Hopkins beat Pascal 2 years after JC beat Hopkins.
I would rate a destruction of Ward in a similar vein to JC destroying Lacy

Is Woodhall a big win for Keith Holmes or Glenn Catley? Why do Calzaghe fans cite a waning, injured Richie Woodhall as some sort of big win? Using Brewer and Mitchell? Ye Gads!!

You can count on one hand the amount of good wins Joe Calzaghe has!

Lacy obviously wasn't a monster, he was only made to look like one.

It's arguable that he never won another fight after losing to Calzaghe. Every decision he won was debatable, and his power wasn't there at all.

Sometimes an American gets to 20-0 with a high % and they're talked up as Godzilla, does them no favours. They just slacken off into a comfort zone and eventually get exposed. Badly in his case.

The Dark Destroyer wrote:The version of Hopkins Joe fought is better than anything on Carl's resume, including a win against Ward. Joe's resume isn't the best, but who in Carl's record would he have lost to?

I'm not saying that Joe wouldn't have beaten all of Carl's opponents, i'm just trying to gauge how far away people think Carl is from emulating Joe's career. In my opinion Calzaghe lost that fight to Hopkins, so i don't rate that win as highly as i do his victory of Kessler. Froch has beaten and fought some good fighters and i think a victory over ward and a re-match win over Kessler will equal what Calzaghe achieved. Then there are options at light-heavyweight to consider.

bugs wrote:Also Reid, Woodhall and Mitchell on Calzaghe's resume, still a long way above Froch.

Decent fighters but they don't put Calzaghe way above Froch opponent wise............you have to look at the best they fought !!

loaded_gloves wrote:Is Woodhall a big win for Keith Holmes or Glenn Catley? Why do Calzaghe fans cite a waning, injured Richie Woodhall as some sort of big win? Using Brewer and Mitchell? Ye Gads!!

You can count on one hand the amount of good wins Joe Calzaghe has!

Agreed !!

The good wins are Eubank, Bika, Lacy, Hopkins and the one stand out win is Kessler.................

Please do not mention Roy Jones

LeedsLad wrote:Lacy obviously wasn't a monster, he was only made to look like one.

It's arguable that he never won another fight after losing to Calzaghe. Every decision he won was debatable, and his power wasn't there at all.

Sometimes an American gets to 20-0 with a high % and they're talked up as Godzilla, does them no favours. They just slacken off into a comfort zone and eventually get exposed. Badly in his case.

Yeah, his entourage was full of those gum chewing, cap sideways, sunglasses in the day merchants saying " You da man........"

Bravado is no substitute for talent and skills

The Dark Destroyer wrote:The version of Hopkins Joe fought is better than anything on Carl's resume, including a win against Ward. Joe's resume isn't the best, but who in Carl's record would he have lost to?

You are bound to disagree but I think Calzaghe would have struggled with Dirrell.

dbf wrote:

The Dark Destroyer wrote:The version of Hopkins Joe fought is better than anything on Carl's resume, including a win against Ward. Joe's resume isn't the best, but who in Carl's record would he have lost to?

You are bound to disagree but I think Calzaghe would have struggled with Dirrell.

I also laugh when people say Taylor was shot when he fought Carl. Watch the fight, Taylor was skillful and quick and hit hard, Carl just happened to take everything and throw and land a lot of shots of his own. Same against Arthur Abraham he was throwing a lot of good shots and landing, he just happened to get smacked in the last round by a big shot by Abraham he hardly took a 12 round beating in either fight. Wouldn't suprise me in the slightest if Taylor makes a very successful comeback at Middleweight now.

He has already past JC in my opinion.

Taylor was shot to pieces after the Pavlik fight.
Froch was less than 15seconds from defeat in that fight.
And Abraham at s-middle was a very poor fighter. No work rate at all.
Its also valid to mention that Johnson has always been regarded as a good loser.
Dirrel .... umm? ... Remind me of his achievments again ...
The Pascal win was good. But Hopkins kinda puts that into perspective really..
And the fact an old Kessler still had enough to beat Froch will always be the sticking point for me.

The positive about Froch is that he is tough. Nobody will have an easy night with him as long as he's standing.

Once the Ward fight is over. If Carl hopefully wins, he'll have Bute ... then the division is done. And i see Froch moving up to face Cleverly.
And thats where I see Carl being ground to a halt!
There is absolutely no way he beats Cleverly!!

tonyevs wrote:Taylor was shot to pieces after the Pavlik fight.
Froch was less than 15seconds from defeat in that fight.
And Abraham at s-middle was a very poor fighter. No work rate at all.
Its also valid to mention that Johnson has always been regarded as a good loser.
Dirrel .... umm? ... Remind me of his achievments again ...
The Pascal win was good. But Hopkins kinda puts that into perspective really..
And the fact an old Kessler still had enough to beat Froch will always be the sticking point for me.

The positive about Froch is that he is tough. Nobody will have an easy night with him as long as he's standing.

Once the Ward fight is over. If Carl hopefully wins, he'll have Bute ... then the division is done. And i see Froch moving up to face Cleverly.
And thats where I see Carl being ground to a halt!
There is absolutely no way he beats Cleverly!!

You make some really valid points but then end with this? Cleverly can't live with Froch.

calzaghe beat a past his prime eubank,jones and hopkins beat a robot in kessler and beat the biggest hype in jeff lacey look what happened to lacey after this fight he was found out and got beat up a few times,joe was good but injured hands kept him from fighting the best at their best. froch has fought the best in their prime. tell me this would calzaghe of gone in a super six style tournament back in his peak? i doubt it very much,if joe wanted to be known as a great he should of went to the states and fought jones toney and the best of 2000,2001,2002 and he should of give robin reid a rematch to the fight imo reid won.

tonyevs wrote:Taylor was shot to pieces after the Pavlik fight.
Froch was less than 15seconds from defeat in that fight.
And Abraham at s-middle was a very poor fighter. No work rate at all.
Its also valid to mention that Johnson has always been regarded as a good loser.
Dirrel .... umm? ... Remind me of his achievments again ...
The Pascal win was good. But Hopkins kinda puts that into perspective really..
And the fact an old Kessler still had enough to beat Froch will always be the sticking point for me.

The positive about Froch is that he is tough. Nobody will have an easy night with him as long as he's standing.

Once the Ward fight is over. If Carl hopefully wins, he'll have Bute ... then the division is done. And i see Froch moving up to face Cleverly.
And thats where I see Carl being ground to a halt!
There is absolutely no way he beats Cleverly!!

Did you think Taylor was shot before he fought Froch? Nah you thought he was several levels above Froch back then, and you thought Abraham could KO Froch late on, and afterwards mentioned the way to beat Abraham was really obvious. Any chance you could tell us the obvious way to beat Ward? Also this weeks lottery numbers while you're at it?

If Froch beats Ward, it's a great, great win. Comparing him to Calzaghe, always the problem is that Calzaghe beat an unbeaten Kessler, Froch lost to a twice-beaten Kessler.
But there should be no need to compare them anyway. Froch is the best of his time, which came after Calzaghe's time.

IMO Froch has outdone Calzaghe already. He's got where he is the hard way and hasn't taken any easy options.
However this is a debate that I'm sure will be split down the middle. Joe has many admirers but he has many detractors too. I wouldn't say I was a detractor but I was never his biggest fan either.

tonyevs wrote:Froch was less than 15seconds from defeat in that fight.

Mate, for me, that just makes it all the more impressive.

Froch can beat Ward but he can't beat Cleverly?



He'd box Nathan's head off.

Joe looks amazing if you just look at the highlights but there is way too much padding in his record for my liking. To be the best you have to fight the best and time and time again Joe was content to defend his belt against also-rans and never-weres. I also mark him down for ducking his greatest domestic challenge - Carl Froch.