BoxRec

Big effect - whilst I would argue that the fight was close on the cards, it was immediately clear to everyone who was winning and that that person was winning without being made to do very much. Froch looked a bit ordinary in there, put bluntly - at least when he lost to Kessler it was an arguable decision in a war!

The Dark Destroyer wrote:What do people think this will do to his appeal as a crossover star here?

This was his biggest fight to date, it's garnered more media coverage than any of his other fights, and for a lot it will be their first exposure to Carl Froch. What do you think this loss will do to his career, we all know how fickle the part timers can be?

I didn't see the fight, but from what iv'e gathered it was a bit of landslide for Ward and Froch couldn't deal with Ward's speed or slickness. From what i have gathered it seems that Froch was unsure how to deal with Ward, but as i say i didn't see the fight. I think Froch is a good fighter and he is a world class operator who has beaten some very good fighters, but ultimately he has come up short against the very best in the division. I think that Froch will be seen in a similar light to Hatton achievement wise, not as popular obviously, but like Ricky a guy who could compete at world level, had a few wins over some big names, but fell short when he faced the very best in his division. I'm not sure where Carl will go after this, certainly not retirement, he will be looking to get those belts back or a version of them, but i had envisaged him going up to light heavyweight after facing Bute if he had beaten Ward, now i'm not too sure. I think a "comeback" fight is in order to get him back on track confidence wise and then i wouldn't be suprised if he tried to get the re-match with Kessler, a fight he can win, if he can get it in Britain. Froch is still a very good fighter, he will fall short against more slick opposition, but i give him a lot of credit for who he has fought over these last two years, he has achieved a lot and deserves respect, but he is not the best out there and this latest fight with Ward has proved that.

It's here http://sweetboxing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=23

Good post Quixall, its an awkard one for Froch at the moment. As great as his resume has been in terms of a whose who in the division. The harsh reality is - he is 2-2 in his last 4 - and those two wins were against fighter who lost comfortably immediately before (Abraham) and immediately after (Johnson) their fight.

So he does need to think his next step comfortably. He could get a biggish (but beatable) name in the states to get back to winning ways, or he could look at the lucrative domestic scene. I think he needs to be wary of going straight back in the Kessler or Ward. Maybe the US fight fans would appreciate seeing a fight of the year contender vs Pascal? Miranda is still quite a big story stateside. Maybe something like that, before going for a title fight.

I actually think the biggest money fight for him might surprisingly be a rematch with Andre Dirrell - yep, I might also be talking out of my backside - but many many US "experts" thought Dirrell well won their fight - and they would pay to see Dirrell get his second chance on US soil. Both fighters might not be in the forefront of the world champions mind now (for different reasons) but it might make a very real eliminator fight.

stujones wrote:Good post Quixall, its an awkard one for Froch at the moment. As great as his resume has been in terms of a whose who in the division. The harsh reality is - he is 2-2 in his last 4 - and those two wins were against fighter who lost comfortably immediately before (Abraham) and immediately after (Johnson) their fight.

So he does need to think his next step comfortably. He could get a biggish (but beatable) name in the states to get back to winning ways, or he could look at the lucrative domestic scene. I think he needs to be wary of going straight back in the Kessler or Ward. Maybe the US fight fans would appreciate seeing a fight of the year contender vs Pascal? Miranda is still quite a big story stateside. Maybe something like that, before going for a title fight.

I actually think the biggest money fight for him might surprisingly be a rematch with Andre Dirrell - yep, I might also be talking out of my backside - but many many US "experts" thought Dirrell well won their fight - and they would pay to see Dirrell get his second chance on US soil. Both fighters might not be in the forefront of the world champions mind now (for different reasons) but it might make a very real eliminator fight.

Yeah, you could be right, Dirrel, Pascal or even Bute could be the next fight, but it's one that he needs to know he can win, not a 50-50 as many thought the Ward fight would be. Carl does have options because there is always the light heavy division and Johnson proved to a point that you can step between the two quite comfortably, aslong as you don't struggle to make the SM weight wise.

MachoMan09 wrote:His 'crossover' status will remain unchanged in the UK. The fact Froch appears to be a well adjusted, intelligent, down-to-earth bloke will always hold him back in terms of becoming a celebrity.

The fact that his missus is less than totally ugly helps!

Quixall wrote:Yeah, you could be right, Dirrel, Pascal or even Bute could be the next fight, but it's one that he needs to know he can win, not a 50-50 as many thought the Ward fight would be. Carl does have options because there is always the light heavy division and Johnson proved to a point that you can step between the two quite comfortably, aslong as you don't struggle to make the SM weight wise.

Well, in the UK he could have Cleverly, DeGale or Groves. I reckon those would all be interesting fights, but apart from the first, I'm not sure that any of them really give the impression that he sees himself as a top level operator any longer. Could he beat Cleverly?

Internationally, Miranda would be a good fight that he ought to win...

Tykemania wrote:

Quixall wrote:Yeah, you could be right, Dirrel, Pascal or even Bute could be the next fight, but it's one that he needs to know he can win, not a 50-50 as many thought the Ward fight would be. Carl does have options because there is always the light heavy division and Johnson proved to a point that you can step between the two quite comfortably, aslong as you don't struggle to make the SM weight wise.

Well, in the UK he could have Cleverly, DeGale or Groves. I reckon those would all be interesting fights, but apart from the first, I'm not sure that any of them really give the impression that he sees himself as a top level operator any longer. Could he beat Cleverly?

Internationally, Miranda would be a good fight that he ought to win...

Miranda looked ok last night.

Tykemania wrote:

Quixall wrote:Yeah, you could be right, Dirrel, Pascal or even Bute could be the next fight, but it's one that he needs to know he can win, not a 50-50 as many thought the Ward fight would be. Carl does have options because there is always the light heavy division and Johnson proved to a point that you can step between the two quite comfortably, aslong as you don't struggle to make the SM weight wise.

Well, in the UK he could have Cleverly, DeGale or Groves. I reckon those would all be interesting fights, but apart from the first, I'm not sure that any of them really give the impression that he sees himself as a top level operator any longer. Could he beat Cleverly?

Internationally, Miranda would be a good fight that he ought to win...

DeGale and Groves aren't on the same planet at the moment and are still learning. Froch wants to continue at the very top of the divsion and so Cleverly is completely out of the question. As you say, someone like Miranda etc would be the kind of fight he would be looking for. Froch lost last night but he is still at the top of his game and Cleverley would get soundly beaten by Froch at this moment in time.

The Dark Destroyer wrote:What do people think this will do to his appeal as a crossover star here?

This was his biggest fight to date, it's garnered more media coverage than any of his other fights, and for a lot it will be their first exposure to Carl Froch. What do you think this loss will do to his career, we all know how fickle the part timers can be?

Carl really didnt show up....I felt so bad for him....he always has slow starts (except against kessler)...froch is a much better fighter than we saw tonight.....i dont know if age is catching up with him...i think he needs to get back in asap....id love to see froch just do something crazy like agree to meet bute in canada.....carl would do it tho!

mugabi wrote:

The Dark Destroyer wrote:What do people think this will do to his appeal as a crossover star here?

This was his biggest fight to date, it's garnered more media coverage than any of his other fights, and for a lot it will be their first exposure to Carl Froch. What do you think this loss will do to his career, we all know how fickle the part timers can be?

Carl really didnt show up....I felt so bad for him....he always has slow starts (except against kessler)...froch is a much better fighter than we saw tonight.....i dont know if age is catching up with him...i think he needs to get back in asap....id love to see froch just do something crazy like agree to meet bute in canada.....carl would do it tho!

Carl did show up. He was just totaly blitzed from bell to bell by Ward.
I gave Froch the 12th round but thats all. ward was tiring badly.
Froch was very graceful in defeat I thought with no Haye excuses and came across well.
Totaly outsped and outclassed last night.

I don't think Carl needs to feel too bad after last night, he was up against a guy who gave a masterclass. If they fought again, and I hope they do, I would suspect that it would be a different outcome.
The only problem is that after a couple of high profile defeats for British fighters, Haye and Khan, Froch losing might give the casual fan a sense of, typical British fighter losing when it matters most.

Tykemania wrote:Could he beat Cleverly?

..

Are you actually serious with this? Really?

Actually, in an ideal world it would be a good fight to get Froch an easy first win at light heavy, kind of doubling as a comeback fight too to get his confidence back.

But we all know a certain someone would never put Cleverley in with Froch until he is ready to cash him in. Not to mention Froch having shunned the worthless WBO strap before.

Spiker wrote:

mugabi wrote:

The Dark Destroyer wrote:What do people think this will do to his appeal as a crossover star here?

This was his biggest fight to date, it's garnered more media coverage than any of his other fights, and for a lot it will be their first exposure to Carl Froch. What do you think this loss will do to his career, we all know how fickle the part timers can be?

Carl really didnt show up....I felt so bad for him....he always has slow starts (except against kessler)...froch is a much better fighter than we saw tonight.....i dont know if age is catching up with him...i think he needs to get back in asap....id love to see froch just do something crazy like agree to meet bute in canada.....carl would do it tho!

Carl did show up. He was just totaly blitzed from bell to bell by Ward.
I gave Froch the 12th round but thats all. ward was tiring badly.
Froch was very graceful in defeat I thought with no Haye excuses and came across well.
Totaly outsped and outclassed last night.

What i was going to say.

Froch's style is the ring is a bit like a bully. He needs to dictate the pace and out muscle otherwise he will struggle.

Just like against Kessler and the majority of the Taylor bout. Both fights where his opponents either played to their own game or dictated the pace.

Froch said it himself post fight, "he beat me fair n square". Ward is simply the better boxer.

I'd like to have seen another 3 rounds last night, I really think we might have had a different outcome. Froch started slowly and Ward didn't let him back in until he started to tire.

I thought Jim Watt's commentary was terrible from start to finish. So negative. Seriously, we should be able to mute the commentators and just soak up the atmosphere.

It's also about time Froch had a fight in the UK. I don't think he's had a fair run in the Super Six with locations but now that's all over, lets get Carl a big fight over here and get him rolling again. Always a pleasure to watch and a true warrior. As Jim Bowen said, 'You can't win 'em all'.

That said, I remember Carl saying on Ringside after the Johnson fight that he wanted to top a bill in Las Vegas. Hope he gets to fulfil that ambition later next year. Possibly B'hop after a confidence builder?

Froch is far from finished and he would still stand a chance against Ward in a rematch. Ward is far from unbeatable.

I think he may have done better if he did more of what he did in rounds 11 and 12. Take the punches going in but rush him to get his own punches off. It's a risky strategy but against someone like Ward who could read most of his moves nothing else would work and didnt. I must admit I was a bit surprised with Ward though especially his inside game and the fact that he was pushing Karl back. I thought he would box on the outside and karl would be chasing and manhandling him. Ward used his head quite a alot as well going in to distract Karl.

I dont think he has lost any appeal or rapport with fans though. he fought like he always does, with heart and determination (rounds 11/12 are a testemant to this) and lost to a better man on the night. He will have more exciting, on edge of the seat type fights again!

Spiker wrote:

mugabi wrote:

The Dark Destroyer wrote:What do people think this will do to his appeal as a crossover star here?

This was his biggest fight to date, it's garnered more media coverage than any of his other fights, and for a lot it will be their first exposure to Carl Froch. What do you think this loss will do to his career, we all know how fickle the part timers can be?

Carl really didnt show up....I felt so bad for him....he always has slow starts (except against kessler)...froch is a much better fighter than we saw tonight.....i dont know if age is catching up with him...i think he needs to get back in asap....id love to see froch just do something crazy like agree to meet bute in canada.....carl would do it tho!

Carl did show up. He was just totaly blitzed from bell to bell by Ward.
I gave Froch the 12th round but thats all. ward was tiring badly.
Froch was very graceful in defeat I thought with no Haye excuses and came across well.
Totaly outsped and outclassed last night.

he was blitzed from pillar to post and outmuscled as well like u say. But i still dont think the real hungry froch who fought taylor,dirrel, abraham and johnson turned up....he didnt have that do or die spirit he usually has, he seemed to flinch more from shots, his reflexes were slow...perhaps by reaching the final , doing the deal with sky, switching promoters he let up subconciously....Im not saying ward wouldnt stlll beat him.....Wards style was perfect for froch...

mugabi wrote:

Spiker wrote:

mugabi wrote: Carl really didnt show up....I felt so bad for him....he always has slow starts (except against kessler)...froch is a much better fighter than we saw tonight.....i dont know if age is catching up with him...i think he needs to get back in asap....id love to see froch just do something crazy like agree to meet bute in canada.....carl would do it tho!

Carl did show up. He was just totaly blitzed from bell to bell by Ward.
I gave Froch the 12th round but thats all. ward was tiring badly.
Froch was very graceful in defeat I thought with no Haye excuses and came across well.
Totaly outsped and outclassed last night.

he was blitzed from pillar to post and outmuscled as well like u say. But i still dont think the real hungry froch who fought taylor,dirrel, abraham and johnson turned up....he didnt have that do or die spirit he usually has, he seemed to flinch more from shots, his reflexes were slow...perhaps by reaching the final , doing the deal with sky, switching promoters he let up subconciously....Im not saying ward wouldnt stlll beat him.....Wards style was perfect for froch...

You don't know what you're talking about. Froch is a top level operator, not a inexperienced kid in the amateur ranks. He was schooled by a better boxer, end of discussion.

Ward is a very very special fighter, I think history will go to show that, I think he's going to dominate for a long time, he really does have it all, he can do the rough stuff if needed, is strong, relaxed, has enough power to deter people from walking through him has an excellent boxing brain, and a great 'radar' for shots coming his way.

Froch is a very good fighter, unfortunately for him, he ran into the early stages of a great one.

I don't see anyone beating ward for some time, he handled two beasts in Kessler and Froch with consumate ease.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Ward is a very very special fighter, I think history will go to show that, I think he's going to dominate for a long time, he really does have it all, he can do the rough stuff if needed, is strong, relaxed, has enough power to deter people from walking through him has an excellent boxing brain, and a great 'radar' for shots coming his way.

Froch is a very good fighter, unfortunately for him, he ran into the early stages of a great one.

I don't see anyone beating ward for some time, he handled two beasts in Kessler and Froch with consumate ease.

Agreed.

Most Boxers don't face that level of opposition until they have around 35 wins under their belt. But Ward has already emerged as Super Six Champion, and looks like the best SMW at the moment.

The Bute bout should be interesting, since we all know, styles make fights, and Bute has a style that could cause a problem or two for Ward.

As for Froch, it's either Kessler, Hopkins or possible Martinez.

The Dark Destroyer wrote:What do people think this will do to his appeal as a crossover star here?

This was his biggest fight to date, it's garnered more media coverage than any of his other fights, and for a lot it will be their first exposure to Carl Froch. What do you think this loss will do to his career, we all know how fickle the part timers can be?

Crossover star? Not a chance in hell.

He has been promoted pretty poorly for the mainstream since day 1, but also he isnt exactly the most dynamic personality ever to grace our screens.

You cant teach charisma.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Ward is a very very special fighter, I think history will go to show that, I think he's going to dominate for a long time, he really does have it all, he can do the rough stuff if needed, is strong, relaxed, has enough power to deter people from walking through him has an excellent boxing brain, and a great 'radar' for shots coming his way.

Froch is a very good fighter, unfortunately for him, he ran into the early stages of a great one.

I don't see anyone beating ward for some time, he handled two beasts in Kessler and Froch with consumate ease.

i don't think anyone can say what history will show, this early on. for all we know, ward may have done his best work and someone like, say, lucian bute may end up stealing all the glory. it can happen.

as to ward being able to do it inside, do it outside, i do not buy into this. the mauling and the scuffling & headwork is for a reason. it's to gain an advantage by fighting dirty, and it's also because some fighters know that it is actually safer to be up close. ward fights far too close, and while he can negate/back up an opponent, he smothers his own punches.

his clearly is a top-level fighter, because he's beaten kessler and froch. regarding froch though, give his style, which has never been modified (much to jim watt's concern over the years, and for good reason), someone was always going to seriously outbox him. carl is obviously a beast, and a good beast at that, but he's spent most of his career fighting as if he's naseem hamed, which is just wrong. the cobra should be ramming out a persistent jab, throwing straight shots and working his way up close with a hard body attack. carl is too languid and open and waits too long.

ward has not been impressive outside the froch and kessler fights. both froch and kessler are extremely upright european guys who fight in straight lines. a different style could upset or give him big problems. things look great for ward, but anything can happen, especially in boxing. my belief is that he will have some handpicked opponents at home, will sit on that title and if we're lucky showtie will push for ward v bute.

i also wonder why showtime have signed bute. is it because ward will defect to HBO?

I’m a bit surprised at how Froch is being regarded. Many on here were expecting a Ward shut-out victory. He won, clearly won. But it wasn’t as if Froch had no success at all.

I remember guys like Sibson and Minter getting quartered by Hagler. Green and Hope being KO’d dramatically by Leonard and Benitez.

The fight wasn’t what I call a landslide. He fought an Olympic gold medallist in USA. It was always competitive with Ward having the best of it most of the time.

Ward is very skilful indeed. But talk of him being a superstar with his style (though if Mayweather has fans then so be it) makes me realise just how lucky I was to have grown up with Americans like Tommy, Ray, Marvin, etc… who fought to win and entertain.

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote: He has been promoted pretty poorly for the mainstream since day 1, but also he isnt exactly the most dynamic personality ever to grace our screens.

You cant teach charisma.

I agree with this.

Although, even if he had been promoted differently he does not come across in the media as Mr Personality.

bripez wrote:

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote: He has been promoted pretty poorly for the mainstream since day 1, but also he isnt exactly the most dynamic personality ever to grace our screens.

You cant teach charisma.

I agree with this.

Although, even if he had been promoted differently he does not come across in the media as Mr Personality.

If Khan can be promoted as a personality, anyone can.