BoxRec

How would you guys rate heavyweight punching power of the World Champions. I am interested more in tiers of fighters than actually splitting hairs about the very best.

To make it easier, a bit of a ranking from 1 to 10 maybe, with 1 being the worst power for a heavyweight and 10 being the top.

I will start with a few from the top tier - 10.

Say, Tyson, Foreman, Liston, Louis, Sullivan. Not really sure about Fitzsimmons his record definitely says yes, but like many will no doubt say, there has to be a concern because of his weight.

Foreman
Max Baer

Louis
Wlad
Liston

Marciano
Dempsey
Tyson
Lewis
Bonecrusher
Frazier

Mike Weaver
Frank Bruno
Corrie Sanders

Not sure about your 1/10 system. But you get the point.

I agree that tiers are better than arguing details. God is in the process.

Tier 1:

Foreman, Baer, Liston, Dempsey, Tyson

Tier 2:

Lewis, Louis, Klitschko, Bowe, Marciano

Tier 3:

Frazier, Johansson, Jeffries, Walcott, Patterson

Needs more detail, but thatll do for now.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I agree that tiers are better than arguing details. God is in the process.

Tier 1:

Foreman, Baer, Liston, Dempsey, Tyson

Tier 2:

Lewis, Louis, Klitschko, Bowe, Marciano

Tier 3:

Frazier, Johansson, Jeffries, Walcott, Patterson

Needs more detail, but thatll do for now.

Frazier belongs in tier 2.

Alan Partridge wrote:Foreman
Max Baer

Louis
Wlad
Liston

Marciano
Dempsey
Tyson
Lewis
Bonecrusher
Frazier

Mike Weaver
Frank Bruno
Corrie Sanders

Not sure about your 1/10 system. But you get the point.

Tyson should be higher up your list for sure.

yancey wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I agree that tiers are better than arguing details. God is in the process.

Tier 1:

Foreman, Baer, Liston, Dempsey, Tyson

Tier 2:

Lewis, Louis, Klitschko, Bowe, Marciano

Tier 3:

Frazier, Johansson, Jeffries, Walcott, Patterson

Needs more detail, but thatll do for now.

Frazier belongs in tier 2.

Yeah, to be honest, he was damn close. He and Johansson, IMO, hit harder than the other three in their tier. Its certainly valid to argue Frazier is 2nd-tier.

Alan Partridge wrote:Foreman
Max Baer

Louis
Wlad
Liston

Marciano
Dempsey
Tyson
Lewis
Bonecrusher
Frazier

Mike Weaver
Frank Bruno
Corrie Sanders

Not sure about your 1/10 system. But you get the point.

No this is exactly what i was thinking of. I do pretty much agree with most of the lists going so far. But the choices of Max Baer really do surprise my and to be honest, i have not seen a better KO punch than Tyson putting him in tier 3 is very, very tough marking.

Boilermaker wrote:

Alan Partridge wrote:Foreman
Max Baer

Louis
Wlad
Liston

Marciano
Dempsey
Tyson
Lewis
Bonecrusher
Frazier

Mike Weaver
Frank Bruno
Corrie Sanders

Not sure about your 1/10 system. But you get the point.

No this is exactly what i was thinking of. I do pretty much agree with most of the lists going so far. But the choices of Max Baer really do surprise my and to be honest, i have not seen a better KO punch than Tyson putting him in tier 3 is very, very tough marking.

Agree that Tyson is a tier-1 puncher, but what of Baer's praise surprises you? Did you know the Writers' Association voted his right hand THE biggest punch of the first-half of the 20th Century --- ahead of Louis, Dempsey, and the rest of the field.

Boilermaker wrote:

Alan Partridge wrote:Foreman
Max Baer

Louis
Wlad
Liston

Marciano
Dempsey
Tyson
Lewis
Bonecrusher
Frazier

Mike Weaver
Frank Bruno
Corrie Sanders

Not sure about your 1/10 system. But you get the point.

No this is exactly what i was thinking of. I do pretty much agree with most of the lists going so far. But the choices of Max Baer really do surprise my and to be honest, i have not seen a better KO punch than Tyson putting him in tier 3 is very, very tough marking.

Tyson was a great KO puncher! Due mainly to his speed which takes opponents by surprise and therefore is more effective. Also in his early days he put combos together and rarely KO'd opponents with 1 punch. Now Botha comes to mind (he was glass jawed). Maybe he deserves to be tier 2... Maybe... But certainly not tier 1 IMO. My choice for Max Bear should not surprise you as he had a right hand that could KO a rhino.

yancey wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I agree that tiers are better than arguing details. God is in the process.

Tier 1:

Foreman, Baer, Liston, Dempsey, Tyson

Tier 2:

Lewis, Louis, Klitschko, Bowe, Marciano

Tier 3:

Frazier, Johansson, Jeffries, Walcott, Patterson

Needs more detail, but thatll do for now.

Frazier belongs in tier 2.

Louis belongs in tier 1. I wouldn't bat an eye if someone said he was the biggest puncher in the history of Boxing.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I agree that tiers are better than arguing details. God is in the process.

Tier 1:

Foreman, Baer, Liston, Dempsey, Tyson

Tier 2:

Lewis, Louis, Klitschko, Bowe, Marciano

Tier 3:

Frazier, Johansson, Jeffries, Walcott, Patterson

Needs more detail, but thatll do for now.

This is a pretty good list. Though I think Louis needs to become Tier 1. I think Jeffries should move to tier 2 although i do know there a re a lot of people who put Jeffries down a spot. Patterson is to high for me. He surely wouldnt rate over Ali would he? If you can accept Frazier Johansen and Walcott as the third tier.

When i said i was surprised about Baers placing, it was pleasantly surprised. Most discount him quite easily, which i think is unfair.

I see a few guys missing on the way through the Tiers, such as John L Sullivan who was a tier 1 puncher and Dempsey who is also probably a tier 1 or 2, although i would like to wait to see how you and others see the lower tiers pan out. Who would you see as making up tier 4? I would have thought that we were probably getting close to the Muhammed Ali or Jack Johnson tiers arent we?

That's way too high for Ali or Johnson for me. Rahman punched significantly harder than either of them. If alphabet guys count than Witherspoon would be up there

I do think that most of the modern alphabet guys would start to slot in here, as would many of the big hitting contenders (although some like Shavers and co might be even higher tier). It is probably best to leave the alphabet guys out for now, until we have all the champions listed in tiers, then if we want we can try to place them easier. It is hard to rate purely on power, obviously, because often it is is skills and ability and even speed which is more important than power. Still, i would like to see how the tiers of champions plays out. It is pretty close to a consensus at this stage.

The next tier that i have would be Ali, Holyfield, Johnson. But i am open to other opinions that see things differently. I think that Vitali, Briggs and Rahman probably fit in this tier as well, though i can see why they might go one tier higher in some arguments or perhaps lower.

Holyfield, Briggs & rahman all punched a tier above Ali or Johnson imo. Schmeling was a bigger puncher than they were too. And I'd put your boy Fitz over Ali as well. Muhammad wasn't a big puncher, he could pop. But no way is he a top 20 or 30 Heavyweight puncher like you seem to have him rated. I'd have him on the same tier as michael Spinks & Jack sharkey.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Holyfield, Briggs & rahman all punched a tier above Ali or Johnson imo. Schmeling was a bigger puncher than they were too. And I'd put your boy Fitz over Ali as well. Muhammad wasn't a big puncher, he could pop. But no way is he a top 20 or 30 Heavyweight puncher like you seem to have him rated. I'd have him on the same tier as michael Spinks & Jack sharkey.

Fitz has a tier 1 heavyweight KO record, believe it or not, but i will probably argue over that a little down the track and i can definitely see some reasons why people will baulk at including him there, Choynski is in a similar position.

I disagree with regards to Ali and Holyfield, they have similar power, although i can see from the other thread, you are obviously a massive Holyfield fan. I think Ali's superior power is showed by the differing performances against Foreman, where Ali stopped a prime George who was outlanding him, and Holyfield was taken the distance by an old George who was being outlanded easily by Holyfield. I would argue that Rahman and Briggs are limited in ability, so they are hard to rank. I think they might be slightly bigger hitters than Ali, although because they hit one with one out clubbing power rather than faster combinations, it is hard to compare.

I never said that Ali was a top 20 heavyweight puncher. Punchers are a dime a dozen in the heavyweight ranks. He is top 20 out of the world champions running around. I havent counted up the tiers of fighters listed, but i think that would be a pretty fair place to put him. He is certainly not a one punch KO artist (though he can hurt with one shot). But i do think that so far as Ko victories over iron chinned fighters go, with Liston, Foreman and many others it is hard to see anyone who has the better KO record. Obviously power is not the only thing that produces a ko win.

Boilermaker wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Holyfield, Briggs & rahman all punched a tier above Ali or Johnson imo. Schmeling was a bigger puncher than they were too. And I'd put your boy Fitz over Ali as well. Muhammad wasn't a big puncher, he could pop. But no way is he a top 20 or 30 Heavyweight puncher like you seem to have him rated. I'd have him on the same tier as michael Spinks & Jack sharkey.

Fitz has a tier 1 heavyweight KO record, believe it or not, but i will probably argue over that a little down the track and i can definitely see some reasons why people will baulk at including him there, Choynski is in a similar position.

I disagree with regards to Ali and Holyfield, they have similar power, although i can see from the other thread, you are obviously a massive Holyfield fan. I think Ali's superior power is showed by the differing performances against Foreman, where Ali stopped a prime George who was outlanding him, and Holyfield was taken the distance by an old George who was being outlanded easily by Holyfield. I would argue that Rahman and Briggs are limited in ability, so they are hard to rank. I think they might be slightly bigger hitters than Ali, although because they hit one with one out clubbing power rather than faster combinations, it is hard to compare.

I never said that Ali was a top 20 heavyweight puncher. Punchers are a dime a dozen in the heavyweight ranks. He is top 20 out of the world champions running around. I havent counted up the tiers of fighters listed, but i think that would be a pretty fair place to put him. He is certainly not a one punch KO artist (though he can hurt with one shot). But i do think that so far as Ko victories over iron chinned fighters go, with Liston, Foreman and many others it is hard to see anyone who has the better KO record. Obviously power is not the only thing that produces a ko win.

Anyone who thinks Fitzsimmons is the greatest fighter who ever lived has no business hurling stones at someone for being a massive fan of anyone. I'm perfectly capable of rating guys I love or hate equally. You're comparing fights that were decades apart. George wasn't full of tension and fighting in the jungle against Holyfield. Ali spent the majority of his career stopping smaller men while Evander was fighting larger ones. Yet he was the first man to floor Bowe & Mercer. Having them equal isn't outlandish, I'd just disagree.

I don't see where Rahman or Briggs lack of skills diminish their power. Willard & Norton are two more I'd place over Ali. He wouldn't be in my top 20 champion punchers. And for the record, i was a big Ali fan growing up.

Anyone who thinks Fitzsimmons is the greatest fighter who ever lived has no business hurling stones at someone for being a massive fan of anyone.

Fitzsimmons was the standout, consensus pick, until those who saw him, died out. It wasnt until Sugar Ray Robinson and possibly Joe Louis appeared that people started considering others to be better fighters as a realistic possible pick. Even now, Fitzsimmons did things that still has not been emulated. He is the only Middleweight to ever be a world champion. He is the only Light heavyweight Champion to ever win an undisputed World championship. He was the best middleweight in the world for longer than anyone, He was the best light heavyweight in the world for longer than anyone. To put things into perspective, just before he died (after the Tunney era and at the start of the Louis era (from memory)) Jack Johnson considered Fitzsimmons the greatest fighter in the world ever. (Not pound for pound but as a heavyweight). Jeffries was similar. Everyone who saw prime fitzsimmons was impressed - with him even though he fought heavyweights as a midlle or light heavyweight. Fitzys KO streak at heavyweight, light heavyweight or middleweight, in his prime is better than anyones. His level of competition is as good or better than anyones. Maher, Sharkey, Corbett, Hall, Dempsey, Ruhlin, Choynski, along with the many others would all give any middlweights or light heavyweights a tough fight and probably beat most if not all. Not to mention most heavyweights. There is no subjective way to not put Fitzsimmons near the top of any list. KOs, Length of Reign, Title Defences, longevity, past prime performances etc. You name it, whichever method you use, he must be near the top. No one has really seen him fight (you cant count the fitz corbett picks, and certainly cant judge him by the Lang pics, where not only was he ancient), but it was much hotter than when Sugar Ray collapsed from exhaustion. Fitz also collapsed from exhaustion, although unlike Ray, he forced himself out of the corner stool to take his final beating.

I'm perfectly capable of rating guys I love or hate equally. You're comparing fights that were decades apart. George wasn't full of tension and fighting in the jungle against Holyfield. Ali spent the majority of his career stopping smaller men while Evander was fighting larger ones. Yet he was the first man to floor Bowe & Mercer. Having them equal isn't outlandish, I'd just disagree.

You cant honestly with a straight face be trying to say that the ancient old George foreman was close to as good as the young version Ali fought can you? Evander obviously did have power I agree that they are close and i guess we just need to agree to disagree on the levels of power. Either way, they are not too far apart.

I don't see where Rahman or Briggs lack of skills diminish their power. Willard & Norton are two more I'd place over Ali. He wouldn't be in my top 20 champion punchers. And for the record, i was a big Ali fan growing up.

Willard, i think i might agree with over Ali. Norton, is about on the same tier, imo. Maybe a little less but not much in it.

While we are setting records straight, I really enjoyed Holyfields win over Tyson, even was one of the very few who predicted it. (Not that it means too much, I also picked Spinks over Tyson :!: ) it doesnt change the fact that Tyson lead the fight early until Tyson tired and Holy took over. It is quite ironic really, the way Holy mauled and wrestled and tried to outmuscle and tire out Tyson really was a lot like Jack Johnson fought, yet many seem to think that Johnson's style wouldnt stand up to a modern style like Tyson's.

Boilermaker wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I agree that tiers are better than arguing details. God is in the process.

Tier 1:

Foreman, Baer, Liston, Dempsey, Tyson

Tier 2:

Lewis, Louis, Klitschko, Bowe, Marciano

Tier 3:

Frazier, Johansson, Jeffries, Walcott, Patterson

Needs more detail, but thatll do for now.

This is a pretty good list. Though I think Louis needs to become Tier 1. I think Jeffries should move to tier 2 although i do know there a re a lot of people who put Jeffries down a spot. Patterson is to high for me. He surely wouldnt rate over Ali would he? If you can accept Frazier Johansen and Walcott as the third tier.

When i said i was surprised about Baers placing, it was pleasantly surprised. Most discount him quite easily, which i think is unfair.

I see a few guys missing on the way through the Tiers, such as John L Sullivan who was a tier 1 puncher and Dempsey who is also probably a tier 1 or 2, although i would like to wait to see how you and others see the lower tiers pan out. Who would you see as making up tier 4? I would have thought that we were probably getting close to the Muhammed Ali or Jack Johnson tiers arent we?

I would quite clearly call Patterson a bigger hitter than Ali. Thats one area Patterson didnt get enough credit.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Boilermaker wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I agree that tiers are better than arguing details. God is in the process.

Tier 1:

Foreman, Baer, Liston, Dempsey, Tyson

Tier 2:

Lewis, Louis, Klitschko, Bowe, Marciano

Tier 3:

Frazier, Johansson, Jeffries, Walcott, Patterson

Needs more detail, but thatll do for now.

This is a pretty good list. Though I think Louis needs to become Tier 1. I think Jeffries should move to tier 2 although i do know there a re a lot of people who put Jeffries down a spot. Patterson is to high for me. He surely wouldnt rate over Ali would he? If you can accept Frazier Johansen and Walcott as the third tier.

When i said i was surprised about Baers placing, it was pleasantly surprised. Most discount him quite easily, which i think is unfair.

I see a few guys missing on the way through the Tiers, such as John L Sullivan who was a tier 1 puncher and Dempsey who is also probably a tier 1 or 2, although i would like to wait to see how you and others see the lower tiers pan out. Who would you see as making up tier 4? I would have thought that we were probably getting close to the Muhammed Ali or Jack Johnson tiers arent we?

I would quite clearly call Patterson a bigger hitter than Ali. Thats one area Patterson didnt get enough credit.

Correct on both statements.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Boilermaker wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I agree that tiers are better than arguing details. God is in the process.

Tier 1:

Foreman, Baer, Liston, Dempsey, Tyson

Tier 2:

Lewis, Louis, Klitschko, Bowe, Marciano

Tier 3:

Frazier, Johansson, Jeffries, Walcott, Patterson

Needs more detail, but thatll do for now.

This is a pretty good list. Though I think Louis needs to become Tier 1. I think Jeffries should move to tier 2 although i do know there a re a lot of people who put Jeffries down a spot. Patterson is to high for me. He surely wouldnt rate over Ali would he? If you can accept Frazier Johansen and Walcott as the third tier.

When i said i was surprised about Baers placing, it was pleasantly surprised. Most discount him quite easily, which i think is unfair.

I see a few guys missing on the way through the Tiers, such as John L Sullivan who was a tier 1 puncher and Dempsey who is also probably a tier 1 or 2, although i would like to wait to see how you and others see the lower tiers pan out. Who would you see as making up tier 4? I would have thought that we were probably getting close to the Muhammed Ali or Jack Johnson tiers arent we?

I would quite clearly call Patterson a bigger hitter than Ali. Thats one area Patterson didnt get enough credit.

That is interesting. I am going to rewatch Ali Paterson when i get the chance. Many people say that Paterson showed he was faster than Ali, when they fought. I have not really heard anyone say that he was a bigger puncher also. If true, as underated as Paterson is, it is hard to believe that he wouldnt achieve more, given that he might have been faster and hit harder than Ali. What is it that you would have seen as letting him down. Style or chin would seem to be the only two things.

What, "held him back," relative to Ali is he was clearly a harder puncher, arguably a quicker-fisted one, and Ali then held advantages in EVERY OTHER CATEGORY you could name.

Boilermaker wrote:

Anyone who thinks Fitzsimmons is the greatest fighter who ever lived has no business hurling stones at someone for being a massive fan of anyone.

Fitzsimmons was the standout, consensus pick, until those who saw him, died out. It wasnt until Sugar Ray Robinson and possibly Joe Louis appeared that people started considering others to be better fighters as a realistic possible pick. Even now, Fitzsimmons did things that still has not been emulated. He is the only Middleweight to ever be a world champion. He is the only Light heavyweight Champion to ever win an undisputed World championship. He was the best middleweight in the world for longer than anyone, He was the best light heavyweight in the world for longer than anyone. To put things into perspective, just before he died (after the Tunney era and at the start of the Louis era (from memory)) Jack Johnson considered Fitzsimmons the greatest fighter in the world ever. (Not pound for pound but as a heavyweight). Jeffries was similar. Everyone who saw prime fitzsimmons was impressed - with him even though he fought heavyweights as a midlle or light heavyweight. Fitzys KO streak at heavyweight, light heavyweight or middleweight, in his prime is better than anyones. His level of competition is as good or better than anyones. Maher, Sharkey, Corbett, Hall, Dempsey, Ruhlin, Choynski, along with the many others would all give any middlweights or light heavyweights a tough fight and probably beat most if not all. Not to mention most heavyweights. There is no subjective way to not put Fitzsimmons near the top of any list. KOs, Length of Reign, Title Defences, longevity, past prime performances etc. You name it, whichever method you use, he must be near the top. No one has really seen him fight (you cant count the fitz corbett picks, and certainly cant judge him by the Lang pics, where not only was he ancient), but it was much hotter than when Sugar Ray collapsed from exhaustion. Fitz also collapsed from exhaustion, although unlike Ray, he forced himself out of the corner stool to take his final beating.

I'm perfectly capable of rating guys I love or hate equally. You're comparing fights that were decades apart. George wasn't full of tension and fighting in the jungle against Holyfield. Ali spent the majority of his career stopping smaller men while Evander was fighting larger ones. Yet he was the first man to floor Bowe & Mercer. Having them equal isn't outlandish, I'd just disagree.

You cant honestly with a straight face be trying to say that the ancient old George foreman was close to as good as the young version Ali fought can you? Evander obviously did have power I agree that they are close and i guess we just need to agree to disagree on the levels of power. Either way, they are not too far apart.

I don't see where Rahman or Briggs lack of skills diminish their power. Willard & Norton are two more I'd place over Ali. He wouldn't be in my top 20 champion punchers. And for the record, i was a big Ali fan growing up.

Willard, i think i might agree with over Ali. Norton, is about on the same tier, imo. Maybe a little less but not much in it.

While we are setting records straight, I really enjoyed Holyfields win over Tyson, even was one of the very few who predicted it. (Not that it means too much, I also picked Spinks over Tyson :!: ) it doesnt change the fact that Tyson lead the fight early until Tyson tired and Holy took over. It is quite ironic really, the way Holy mauled and wrestled and tried to outmuscle and tire out Tyson really was a lot like Jack Johnson fought, yet many seem to think that Johnson's style wouldnt stand up to a modern style like Tyson's.

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Obviously a lot of room for debate when you've got cruisers and even super middleweights topping the division at various points in its history, as well as a lot of guys who fought an old-school style and under old-school rules that are very different from today's incarnation. Here's my impression fighter by fighter. And this is totally off the top of my head, with little or no new research involved:

John L. Sullivan- 2 (hard to say how good his opponents were in general and he failed to stop all of the accomplished ones)
Jim Corbett- 1
Bob Fitzsimmons- 4
Jim Jeffries- 7
Marvin Hart- 1 (never stopped any body good over 175 lbs, and even Root was a late stoppage)
Tommy Burns- 1
Jack Johnson- 7
Jess Willard- 5 (a fair number of stoppages against decent opposition, but many were of the relatively late-round variety)
Jack Dempsey- 10
Gene Tunney- 3 (not as bad at stopping opponents as I thought, but probably due to skill more than raw power)
Max Schmeling- 4 (seems to have added power as his career went on but Louis KO aside, he wasn't an ATG puncher)
Jack Sharkey- 3 (lots of decisions, but a few early KOs against quality fighters, too)
Primo Carnera- 5
Max Baer- 5 (not really that devastating a knockout record against top opposition)
Jim Braddock- 1
Joe Louis- 10
Ezzard Charles- 3 (at heavyweight, mind you)
Joe Walcott- 3 (went on a tear of knockouts for his title win and right before, but mostly won decisions over the course of his career against high-level opposition)
Rocky Marciano- 10
Floyd Patterson- 6 (power probably underrated due to how easily Liston walked over him- lots of mid-round stoppages of good fighters in prime)
Ingemar Johansson- 8
Sonny Liston- 10
Muhammad Ali- 4 (rarely flashed 1-punch power, due in part to his style)
Joe Frazier- 10 (I kinda feel like his one-punch power may be a little overrated, but I can't bring myself to give him a 9)
George Foreman- 10
Leon Spinks- 2 (best guy he ever stopped was Bernardo Mercado)
Larry Holmes- 4 (decent number of stoppages, but mostly late and on accumulation)
Michael Spinks- 3 (hard to quantify. He stopped two solid fighters, but failed to stop the two very good fighters he fought in his relatively short heavyweight career).
Mike Tyson- 10
Buster Douglas- 3 (Tyson was his only KO against top-10 opposition)
Evander Holyfield- 8
Riddick Bowe- 10
Michael Moorer- 2 (never knocked out a clear top 10 opponent)
Shannon Briggs ( )- 2 (probably too big not to have more power than this, but the only decent opponent he stopped was Liakhovich)
Lennox Lewis- 9 (very underrated puncher. Got lots of leverage and flattened all the big names he fought except Holyfield and Tua, who had all-time great chins)
Hasim Rahman- 3 (gets some credit for icing Lewis, but had Lewis' momentum helping him and his overall KO record isn't that great)
Vitali Klitschko- 9
Wladimir Klitschko- 9 (both he and his brother are giant guys with telephone-pole right hands and really good KO percentages)

DetroitHxC wrote:Jack Johnson's power gets underrated because he carried his opponents to give people their money's worth. When he wanted to, he could hit as hard as any man.

It's still hard to give him too high a rating when he failed to stop the 168-pound Tommy Burns in 14 rounds, lost a 20-round decision to Marvin Hart rather than stopping him, and had 26 rounds to realize he wasn't going to be able to keep "carrying" Willard before Willard finally took him out. It would be one thing to say he was carrying Burns to win a decision since he controlled that fight, but at some point you've got to expect him to stop a guy rather than lose to him. To be honest I think it's more likely I overrated than underrated him by giving him a 7.

DetroitHxC wrote:

marcianofan wrote:

DetroitHxC wrote:Jack Johnson's power gets underrated because he carried his opponents to give people their money's worth. When he wanted to, he could hit as hard as any man.

It's still hard to give him too high a rating when he failed to stop the 168-pound Tommy Burns in 14 rounds, lost a 20-round decision to Marvin Hart rather than stopping him, and had 26 rounds to realize he wasn't going to be able to keep "carrying" Willard before Willard finally took him out. It would be one thing to say he was carrying Burns to win a decision since he controlled that fight, but at some point you've got to expect him to stop a guy rather than lose to him. To be honest I think it's more likely I overrated than underrated him by giving him a 7.

Fair enough, but I think the combo he landed on Stanley Ketchel would have knocked out anyone.

Maybe, but it's hard to know since Ketchel was a fairly small light heavyweight even by the standards of the time. It would be like prime Mike Tyson (or Joe Frazier if you want to make the weights a little closer) knocking out Joe Calzaghe in a flashy way. Not really enough of a surprise involved to give too much credit for it. Actually Ketchel was probably closer to Sergio Martinez' size when you consider re-hydration.