BoxRec

Sonny Liston had a 21 year old daughter when he won the title...Yet he was 'supposed' to be 32. How old do you think he really was?

When you consider that all evidence points to the fact that Sonny himself wasn't sure how old he was i suppose it would be more than difficult for anyone else to know. Apparently his family were so poor they couldn't afford to register his birth for quite a while, by which time they had forgotten themselves. But wasn't he one of 13 sons all called Charles?

ctill wrote:Sonny Liston had a 21 year old daughter when he won the title...Yet he was 'supposed' to be 32. How old do you think he really was?

He certainly looks older than 32.

ctill wrote:Sonny Liston had a 21 year old daughter when he won the title...Yet he was 'supposed' to be 32.

You never knocked-up any girls when you were 11?

Sonny Fiston wrote:Some people said he was actually 36 when he fought Ali, but I think he was 40. He supposedly died at 38, yet he was about 38 when he won the title.

An examiner checked his dental work after death and said he was approaching 50.

So he would have been in his early 40s when he fought Ali, right?

Yes, Liston must have been almost 50 or so for C. Clay to beat him.....or it was a fixed fight(s). There had to be some reason like that he lost.


Seriously, at the time no one mentioned his age as being a negative factor in their fights. It was Clay's age, being so young, that was talked about as being a factor that would not allow him to win because he didn't have the experience. Clay/Ali would have beaten Liston no matter what their ages were.

Liston's daughter gets older all the time. She was his wife's child by a previous relationship, Sonny adopted her when he married her mother and 17 when Sonny lost his title to Clay, who would have beaten him at any age.

Happy New Year, you dribbling idiots.

Someone told Liston was actually 63 and Ali was a 9yo when they fought

That's a bit of n exaggeration, Ali was at least 11 for the first Liston fight.

JDC wrote:Someone told Liston was actually 63 and Ali was a 9yo when they fought

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWvDao-MpOk

137

BarryWashington wrote:Liston was most likely much older than records showed at the time. Another fighter I would have liked to known the "true age" of is Mike McCallum.

Badhusker wrote:Clay/Ali would have beaten Liston no matter what their ages were.

Is that a fact or is that your opinion?

Of course it is my opinion Barry....but since it IS the only result, I guess you could argue it is fact as well. I have watched both fights several times, and Clay/Ali's speed was too much for Liston to handle. He was frustrated and embarassed, in my opinion. They fought twice, and I definitely think the better boxer won. Up until or through 1967 until he was stripped, I don't think any heavyweight beats Ali, of any area.

Badhusker wrote:

BarryWashington wrote:Liston was most likely much older than records showed at the time. Another fighter I would have liked to known the "true age" of is Mike McCallum.

Badhusker wrote:Clay/Ali would have beaten Liston no matter what their ages were.

Is that a fact or is that your opinion?

Of course it is my opinion Barry....but since it IS the only result, I guess you could argue it is fact as well. I have watched both fights several times, and Clay/Ali's speed was too much for Liston to handle. He was frustrated and embarassed, in my opinion. They fought twice, and I definitely think the better boxer won. Up until or through 1967 until he was stripped, I don't think any heavyweight beats Ali, of any area.

Ali had an all-time great chin, too. It's hard to imagine Liston outlanding Ali in a fair fight given the style matchup, and in retrospect it's also kind of hard to picture Liston hurting him consistently enough to gain a clear advantage or stoppage- especially with Ali being so quick and Liston being so plodding.

Forgive me, but it's hard to imagine Liston's age being TOO far off. Maybe a year or two, but if he was like 10 years older than he was supposed to be there would have been plenty of people raising that at the time. He was an enigmatic guy, sure, but there would still have been lots of people that knew him as a kid that would raise his age as an issue if it was 10 years off. My great great great grandma made herself 10 years younger in the eyes of just about everybody who knew her (including her children and ultimately even her tombstone), but she had to immigrate from Ireland more or less alone to pull that off.

FROM BIAGRAPHY;

onny Liston was born in St. Francis County, Arkansas around 1932 to an abusive and alcoholic father. He had trouble with the police as a teenager and was arrested more than 20 times. He learned to box while serving time in a penitentiary. Once released,


Contents
Synopsis
Early Life
Boxing Success
Defeat to Cassius Clay
Comeback

Early Life

Boxer. Born May 8, 1932 (there is some uncertainty about his year of birth-sources range mostly from 1929 to 1932), in St Francis County, Arkansas. The son of tenant farmer Tobey Liston and his second wife, Helen, Liston was the 24th of his father's 25 children. Along with his many siblings, Liston grew up working in the local cotton fields. His father was an abusive alcoholic, and Liston left at age 13 to live with an aunt in St. Louis, Missouri.

BarryWashington wrote:Liston was most likely much older than records showed at the time. Another fighter I would have liked to known the "true age" of is Mike McCallum.

Badhusker wrote:Clay/Ali would have beaten Liston no matter what their ages were.

Is that a fact or is that your opinion?

In the 1930 census Sonny's mother listed all of her children and step children, Charles was not named, while she listed Charles (Sonny) for the 1934 census, so Liston could have been no older than 33 when he fought Clay. If you saw any film of the first fight you would have seen that Clay was too good for Liston. Even
blinding him did not work.

Think of this. If Sonny was alive in 1930, with the Great Depression under way, why would his impoverished mother have left him off a Government document?

Brute wrote:

In the 1930 census Sonny's mother listed all of her children and step children, Charles was not named, while she listed Charles (Sonny) for the 1934 census, so Liston could have been no older than 33 when he fought Clay. If you saw any film of the first fight you would have seen that Clay was too good for Liston. Even
blinding him did not work.

Think of this. If Sonny was alive in 1930, with the Great Depression under way, why would his impoverished mother have left him off a Government document?

By the same token - why would an impoverished mother list her any of her children as step children? (surely the government would be more supportive of secure families)

in a census you list everybody who is in the house that night. Sonny was her youngest child, he would not be away from home if alive.

A census is not a quiz on religion or ethics.

BarryWashington wrote:

Brute wrote:
In the 1930 census Sonny's mother listed all of her children and step children, Charles was not named, while she listed Charles (Sonny) for the 1934 census, so Liston could have been no older than 33 when he fought Clay. If you saw any film of the first fight you would have seen that Clay was too good for Liston. Even
blinding him did not work.

Think of this. If Sonny was alive in 1930, with the Great Depression under way, why would his impoverished mother have left him off a Government document?

Your bias for Ali leaves no desire for me to respond.

Your stupidity is beyond reason. You would not know a good fighter if he knocked your teeth down your throat.

Brute wrote:

BarryWashington wrote:

Brute wrote:
In the 1930 census Sonny's mother listed all of her children and step children, Charles was not named, while she listed Charles (Sonny) for the 1934 census, so Liston could have been no older than 33 when he fought Clay. If you saw any film of the first fight you would have seen that Clay was too good for Liston. Even
blinding him did not work.

Think of this. If Sonny was alive in 1930, with the Great Depression under way, why would his impoverished mother have left him off a Government document?

Your bias for Ali leaves no desire for me to respond.

Your stupidity is beyond reason. You would not know a good fighter if he knocked your teeth down your throat.

There was no census in 1934. The United States Census is a decennial census, and it is mandated by the United States Constitution. It has taken place every ten years since 1790. The individual information from the census cannot be released until 72 years have passed. The most recently released census is the 1930 census. The 1940 census will be released for public inspection on April 1, 2012.

raylawpc wrote:

Brute wrote:

BarryWashington wrote: Your bias for Ali leaves no desire for me to respond.

Your stupidity is beyond reason. You would not know a good fighter if he knocked your teeth down your throat.

There was no census in 1934. The United States Census is a decennial census, and it is mandated by the United States Constitution. It has taken place every ten years since 1790. The individual information from the census cannot be released until 72 years have passed. The most recently released census is the 1930 census. The 1940 census will be released for public inspection on April 1, 2012.

Could have been a state census.

marcianofan wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

Brute wrote: Your stupidity is beyond reason. You would not know a good fighter if he knocked your teeth down your throat.

There was no census in 1934. The United States Census is a decennial census, and it is mandated by the United States Constitution. It has taken place every ten years since 1790. The individual information from the census cannot be released until 72 years have passed. The most recently released census is the 1930 census. The 1940 census will be released for public inspection on April 1, 2012.

Could have been a state census.

I don't think so. The last time Arkansas did a state census was 1911.

Brute made up the 1934 census?

Giancarlo wrote:Brute made up the 1934 census?

I doubt that; I think he probably cited the wrong source. There was certainly no 1934 federal census and, according to my genealogy handbook, the last state census in Arkansas was 1911.

So at some point in his life, Sonny Liston was unsure of whether he was 15 or 5.