BoxRec

One of the first names that comes to mind is Gerry Cooney. Excellent left hook, and a pretty good jab when he chose to use it. Faced rather weak opposition until he took (relatively speaking) a big step up and faced a still crafty Jimmy Young. Turned in an underrated and dominant performance, but was then put right back in with the now fading and easy to hit Ron Lyle and Ken Norton. In retrospect, it's now actually surprising that he made it into the 13th round against Larry Holmes, a fighter who talent wise, was several cuts above anyone he'd ever faced. If only Cooney would have been brought along slower and learned to hit a moving target, he might have gone alot further.

Cooney certwinaly had his limiatations, but I agree he did have some ability. After the Holmes, fight, they should have gradually built him back up. His long layoffs did him in. It would have been interesting to see him against the WBA titleholders of the 1980s.

How about Tony Tucker and Larry Donald? Why were they not getting fights against better opponents for so long? After holding their own against a top heavyweight (Tucker vs Tyson and Donald vs Bowe) they each spent several years mostly in obscurity fighting mostly journeyman.

Jesse Burnett, world class Light heavyweight in a Golden era who was constantly used as a last second replacement and sent in to home turf and he still gave as good as he got against the best of his era. Yet all that talent netted him a barely over .500 record. The icing on the cake was upsetting Galindez in a WBC Cruiserweight eliminator and not getting his title shot for another 3 or 4 years.

James "Quick" Tillis and Renaldo Snipes' handlers wanted to fight Cooney. He would have learned alot more from those fights then he would have against ringworn Lyle and Norton, but his management team wasn't interested.

Seamus wrote:James "Quick" Tillis and Renaldo Snipes' handlers wanted to fight Cooney. He would have learned alot more from those fights then he would have against ringworn Lyle and Norton, but his management team wasn't interested.

I see what you mean, but I also understand the managerial decision -- Lyle and Norton are much better name to have in your win column than Tillis and Snipes.

I was going to suggest Chicago Heavyweight Walter Moore from the 70's. Whomever said "I think going out to Vegas and fighting this guy, Tiger Roy Williams, is going to be an easy fight for a nice payday" to him deserves a mention in this thread. Getting kayoed killed his unbeaten streak and career.

How about moving Jose "The Threat" Baret up in a quantum leap against Marlon Starling? Good idea there.

The usual suspects- Kelvin Seabrooks, Freddie Pendleton, Lionel Butler. Also Alex Garcia- lets turn down a title shot and do this tuneup fight against Mike Dixon....

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

Seamus wrote:James "Quick" Tillis and Renaldo Snipes' handlers wanted to fight Cooney. He would have learned alot more from those fights then he would have against ringworn Lyle and Norton, but his management team wasn't interested.

I see what you mean, but I also understand the managerial decision -- Lyle and Norton are much better name to have in your win column than Tillis and Snipes.

It is a fine line. As a manager, you want your young fighter to fight opponents to be tested but not lose. He was more likley to lose against Tillis and Snipes at that time, which would have ruined his big payday against Holmes. They probably should have had him fight at least one fight against someone like that before fighting Holmes.

I think after he lost to Holmes, he certainly needed to fight guys like Tillis and Snipes. It was more obvious by then.

A much more recent example but Carl Froch's career has bee hugely mis-managed. He's been the best UK fighter of the past few years along with Khan and Haye yet some of his recent fights weren't even televised in the UK.

Tucker retired after his million dollars vs Tyson got cut up and given to all his various backers his dad had taken on. He got fat and coked out in Beverly Hills for several years before making a comeback in 1990.

I think his comeback was well handled. Took the NABF title from world ranked Orlin Norris in 91, defended it vs world ranked Oliver McCall in 92, then got his shot vs Lennox Lewis in 1993.

He was mismanged from 1980 to 87. After turning pro on NBC he ended up boxing journeymen off-TV for years before reemerging in 86 vs James Broad in a big fight. I would have loved to have seen him mix it up with the champs in the 80s - I don't think Holmes could have handled him.

Tua and Rademacher.

Liston to some extent.

Ronald Jones
Robert Cleroux
Winky Wright lately

Tim Witherspoon

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Tua and Rademacher.

Liston to some extent.

Interesting that you mentioned Rademacher. I always thought he was horribly mismanged as well; after all he fought Floyd Patterson in his pro debut and then fought Zora Folley in his second fight. However, I read a book on Patterson not long ago that shed some light on it. Apparently, Radamacher himself knew that he was not that good of a pro prospect. He just wanted to make some money. Had he went along the more traditional route, he probably wouldn't have made as much money and really wouldn't have had a memorable career anyway.

loaded_gloves wrote:Tucker retired after his million dollars vs Tyson got cut up and given to all his various backers his dad had taken on. He got fat and coked out in Beverly Hills for several years before making a comeback in 1990.

I think his comeback was well handled. Took the NABF title from world ranked Orlin Norris in 91, defended it vs world ranked Oliver McCall in 92, then got his shot vs Lennox Lewis in 1993.

He was mismanged from 1980 to 87. After turning pro on NBC he ended up boxing journeymen off-TV for years before reemerging in 86 vs James Broad in a big fight. I would have loved to have seen him mix it up with the champs in the 80s - I don't think Holmes could have handled him.

Interesting. I also thought he had some ability and should have had a better career. It would have been interesting to see him against Witherspoon, Thomas, Page etc.

Ambling Alp wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Tua and Rademacher.

Liston to some extent.

Interesting that you mentioned Rademacher. I always thought he was horribly mismanged as well; after all he fought Floyd Patterson in his pro debut and then fought Zora Folley in his second fight. However, I read a book on Patterson not long ago that shed some light on it. Apparently, Radamacher himself knew that he was not that good of a pro prospect. He just wanted to make some money. Had he went along the more traditional route, he probably wouldn't have made as much money and really wouldn't have had a memorable career anyway.

Thats interesting, because he acquited himself pretty nicely with so little experience. Maybe he under-estimated himself?

I always thought that Leon Spinks was badly mis-managed when he was rushed into a world heavyweight title shot after having so few professional bouts. It may be true that Spinks was ready to fight an over-the-hill Muhammad Ali, but was ill-suited to be the world heavyweight champion at the time.

Bruce Curry, a stablemate of Jesse Burnett, was also mis-managed at times. For example, Curry was matched with Thomas Hearns with a disasterous result.

Howard Davis, a stablemate of Gerry Cooney, was matched against some soft opposition, resulting in Davis not getting the needed seasoning.

When Jesse Burnett became a late substitute in a televised vacant world light-heavyweight bout in Europe during the 1970s, it is possible that the incident had an adverse effect on the rest of his career. Within a very short period of time, Burnett flew over to Europe and fought in the bout, which meant that he must've had jet lag. He had a very good start in the bout, but later collapsed from apparent exhaustion. In later bouts, Burnett seemed to be reluctant to fight at a fast pace.

Why Juan Manuel Marquez did fight Chris John in the latter's home country. It is my understanding that Marquez got only about thirty thousand dollars for the bout at a time when he could have be earning far more in other bouts. A smart manager would never allow such a situation.

Benny "Kid" Paret apparently was mis-managed. Before having the fateful last bout with Emile Griffith, Paret fought Gene Fullmer, who was far too big and strong.

- Chuck Johnston

Meldrick Taylor should never have been put in with Norris.

Chuck1052 wrote:I always thought that Leon Spinks was badly mis-managed when he was rushed into a world heavyweight title shot after having so few professional bouts. It may be true that Spinks was ready to fight an over-the-hill Muhammad Ali, but was ill-suited to be the world heavyweight champion at the time.

It was outstanding management if anything. No other way could Leon ever have become champ.

Kirkland Laing has to be included here, based solely on his and his management's failure to capitalise on the Duran win. One of the US magazines called Laing "hapless" when discussing Duran's loss to him. He was much better than that but failed to prove it

Chuck1052 wrote:
Howard Davis, a stablemate of Gerry Cooney, was matched against some soft opposition, resulting in Davis not getting the needed seasoning.

Huh? Davis fought Vilomar Fernandez & Maurice Watkins before Watt. He froze a bit against a solid fighter is what it looked like to me. Davis was, at the time, the highest paid pro debut in history. That's good management.

Which fight of Burnett's was that? I never heard that story. His career was full of them. The British crowd boo'd when he whipped Conteh's ass and got robbed. I'd like to see his early fights with Lopez.

I don't really buy the "Davis froze" theory, even though I've heard it quite a bit. I just don't think he was that good. Watt had some of the best timing ever on the southpaw jab, and broke his momentum time and again with it. Davis just didn't have the mental fortitude to fight through it that someone like Buchanan did. I think of that fight as one of the best examples of timing winning out over speed.

King Carlos wrote:I don't really buy the "Davis froze" theory, even though I've heard it quite a bit. I just don't think he was that good. Watt had some of the best timing ever on the southpaw jab, and broke his momentum time and again with it. Davis just didn't have the mental fortitude to fight through it that someone like Buchanan did. I think of that fight as one of the best examples of timing winning out over speed.

It was the worst I've ever seen him fight. Obviously Jim deserves credit for some of that, but questioning his mental fortitude is backing the claims in your own way. He definitely had mental issues that night, I never saw them again.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

King Carlos wrote:I don't really buy the "Davis froze" theory, even though I've heard it quite a bit. I just don't think he was that good. Watt had some of the best timing ever on the southpaw jab, and broke his momentum time and again with it. Davis just didn't have the mental fortitude to fight through it that someone like Buchanan did. I think of that fight as one of the best examples of timing winning out over speed.

It was the worst I've ever seen him fight. Obviously Jim deserves credit for some of that, but questioning his mental fortitude is backing the claims in your own way. He definitely had mental issues that night, I never saw them again.

That's true, but as a direct result of the opponent in front of him.

I made note of that in the initial post you responded to.

bollox wrote:Kirkland Laing has to be included here, based solely on his and his management's failure to capitalise on the Duran win. One of the US magazines called Laing "hapless" when discussing Duran's loss to him. He was much better than that but failed to prove it

Kirk was mismanaged terribly........................ by Kirkland Laing. His life was in dissaray and no manager was ever going to unravel the enigma that was "the gifted one".

After the Duran fight, Mickey Duff had murders trying to track Kirkland down, who had gone on the missing list for the best part of a year.

Offers were on the table for Kirkland, who was nowhere to be seen.