BoxRec

Best Heavyweight 2000 to 2009. We did this recently with the 1990s, and it was pretty clear that despite some differences in opinion regarding the individual rating of certain fighters within a tier, a close to consensus top 10 started to emerge once we looked at actual real result. I would like to do this with each decade, so we can go back and use that to get something which looks like a top 100 (by merging them all together). I will start with an off the cuff rough list of fighters who would likely would feature, with their main results against other top 10 fighters of the decade continued. I would like to hear any changes or obvious ommissions i have made. But please rank on actual results not projected results)

1. Lennox Lewis - Won - Vitali, Tyson, Tua Draw Rahman (1-1)
2. Vitali - Won (Briggs, Sanders L Lewis, Byrd)
3 Wlad - Won(Byrd, Brewster D Sanders (1-1))
4. Byrd - Won Vitali, Tua, Holy L Wlad (2-0), Povetkin, D Golota
5. Rahman - W Sanders D Lennox L Wlad, Maskaev, Holyfield, Lennox Ruiz
6. Sanders W Wlad L Rahman, Vitali (past prime for other loss).
7. Povetkin - W Byrd, Chambers Donald (Win against Chagaev not considered)
8. Chagaev - W (Ruiz, Valuev) L Wlad
9. Brewster - W Golota D Wlad L Ettiene, Shufford,
10. Haye - W Valuev

11. Valuev - W Ruiz, Holyfield, Liakovich L Haye, Chagaev


That was a really difficult era to rate. So many fighters have good winning records, but simply dont step it up. While so many others are inconsistent, and not capable of stringing any more than 2 wins against any sort of decent level fighters. It really is sad that Haye could arguably sneak into the top 10 with just the one heavyweight fight. Povetkin for me was the big surprise. I doubt he makes many if any top 1000 lists at the moment. Yet, if he ends up defeating Wlad and Vitali (even if they have aged), he could end up with a record that rivals Rocky Marciano and the best record of the last 10 years. On reflection, i would have to say that Povetkin really is the fighter who should be the standout contender for one of the Klitchskos titles.

Anyone see any major problems with the order or think anyone else deserves a spot. Remember, any justifications, must come based solely on results in the ring, not perceived levels of impressiveness or head to head ability against lesser opponents. A points win is as good as a KO win.

Can't believe I'm typing these words but Ruiz should be higher: he has wins over Holyfield, Johnson, Rahman, Oquendo, Golota and McCline during that period.

Better resume than Haye and Povetkin, possibly also Chagaev, for that period of time.

If you are throwing in a bit of ability and projection then maybe Haye makes it.
But I don't think he should.

Ezzard wrote:If you are throwing in a bit of ability and projection then maybe Haye makes it.
But I don't think he should.

no chance he makes it, for my money

Byrd and Ruiz should be behind Lewis and the Klitschkos,

The Rahman win over Lewis is better than anything Ruiz ever did.

Lewis and then daylight, despite retiring in 04.

God awful era.

Jaywheel wrote:The Rahman win over Lewis is better than anything Ruiz ever did.

Ruiz trilogy against Holyfield? Ruiz becoming a multiple World Champion?

Crease wrote:

Jaywheel wrote:The Rahman win over Lewis is better than anything Ruiz ever did.

Ruiz trilogy against Holyfield? Ruiz becoming a multiple World Champion?

Nope.

Ruiz should definitely be over Rahman, far more consistent and better resume. If Rahman's one W over Lewis trumps everything else, then Randy Turpin should be a top 10 all time middleweight.
Really crappy era when one looks at this, sheez louis . .

1) Lennox Lewis

2) Vitali Klitschko (*Wlad a better resume, but Vitali better fighter)

3) Wladimir Klitschko

4) Chris Byrd

5) John Ruiz

6) Hasim Rahman

7) Lamon Brewster
After Brewster it's pretty hard to distinguish . .

8) Evander Holyfield (don't forget, in the decade he has Ws over Rahman, Ruiz, Oquendo and (unofficially) Valuev)

9) Ruslan Chagaev

10) Nicolay Valuev (as much as it pains me)

Neither Peter nor Haye should make the top 10

dempseyfire wrote:Ruiz should definitely be over Rahman, far more consistent and better resume. If Rahman's one W over Lewis trumps everything else, then Randy Turpin should be a top 10 all time middleweight.

Ruiz consistent? Ruiz had a 3 W streak within 11 months where he beat Rahman and Golota by Dec and KOed Oquendo in 03-04. Then he had 2 W's in a row against Tisdale and McCline in 07-08. He lost to Valuev x2, Chagaev, Holyfield and got his ass handed to him by 2 Former MW's during that period. He has the decent W over Holyfield.

Hassim KOed Corrie Sanders, Lennox (became the Real Champ, something Ruiz never did) and lost once between 04 and 08. He drew with Tua, Toney and beat Barrett.

I couldn't really careless but I give Rahman credit for that W over Lennox. Ruiz stunk the joint for so long.

1. Lennox Lewis
2. Wladimir Klitschko
3. Vitali Klitschko
4. John Ruiz
5. Chris Byrd
6. Hasim Rahman
7. Lamon Brewster
8. James Toney
9. Ruslan Chagaev
10. Alexander Povetkin

Using the given years, here is how I see it. The ratings are a mix of dominance in the ring, quality opponents beaten, losses or draws taken, and activity.

1A Vitali Lost to Byrd due to a torn shoulder, and Lewis on cuts but was in the lead in both fights. Dominant in all other matches, and forced Lewis to retire rather than re-match.

1B ) Wladimir - Beat better fighters than Vitali, but also lost to guys Vitlai beat in this time line ( Sanders, Purrity ) and had a tougher time with Peter.

3 ) Lewis 6-1 - KO loss to Rhaman and inactivity post 2003 makes him tough to rate higher. If this was a best of the 1990's and 2000's, I would rater Lewis above both Kltischko's

*The Klitschko vs. Lewis re-match and the Klitschko vs Klitschko match would have really put this decade into focus, but we did not see either of them.

After the big three it gets a little dicey.

4 ) Povetkin - Still undefeated in 2012, Povetkin defeated Chambers, Byrd, and Donald from 2000-2009. Byrd and Donald were on the decline though

5 Chagaev - Wins over Ruiz and Valuev earn him this spot. Only lost was to Wladimir

6 ) Byrd- Wins over Tua and Vitali look great, but one sided losses to Wlad, Povetkin do not. Byrd was lucky to draw with Golota, and should have lost a decision to Oquendo.

7 ) Rhaman Wins over Lewis and Sanders are huge, but losses to Holyfield, Ruiz, Klitschko and Maskeav force me to grade him down.

8 ) Ruiz - lost to Valuev 2x, Chagaev, Roy Jones, and Holyfield. Loss to Toney changed to a ND due to Toney's positive drug test. Essentially he was beaten by blown up middles, Wins over Holyfield, Rhaman, and Golota keep him in the top ten.

9 ) Sanders - Has the blow out win over Wlad, but lost to Vitali and Rhaman.

10 ) Ibragimov. Easily defeated Briggs and Holyfield. lost a decision to Wlad. Probably retired too soon

Jaywheel wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Ruiz should definitely be over Rahman, far more consistent and better resume. If Rahman's one W over Lewis trumps everything else, then Randy Turpin should be a top 10 all time middleweight.

Ruiz consistent? Ruiz had a 3 W streak within 11 months where he beat Rahman and Golota by Dec and KOed Oquendo in 03-04. Then he had 2 W's in a row against Tisdale and McCline in 07-08. He lost to Valuev x2, Chagaev, Holyfield and got his ass handed to him by 2 Former MW's during that period. He has the decent W over Holyfield.

Hassim KOed Corrie Sanders, Lennox (became the Real Champ, something Ruiz never did) and lost once between 04 and 08. He drew with Tua, Toney and beat Barrett.

I couldn't really careless but I give Rahman credit for that W over Lennox. Ruiz stunk the joint for so long.

I was thinking the Sanders victory was in 1999. That makes it closer, but let's not forget that the wide majority thought Ruiz beat Valuev the first time. I also don't think the Jones Jr fight is as bad a mark on him as others do . .would you have honestly been comfortable favoring the sluggish Rahman over Roy either?

Rahman only lost once beweetn 04 and 08 b/c a) he only fought 3 times in 05-06 and b) Fought the bum of the month tour in 04 and agan in 07 (and I even thought he could've lost vs Sykes in one of the worst fights I've ever seen). On the other hand the lone guys you could describe as soft touches Ruiz faced were Tisdale and Serin.

Really this is like arguing about what's more healthy; Twinkies or Honey Buns.

pound per pound wrote:Using the given years, here is how I see it. The ratings are a mix of dominance in the ring, quality opponents beaten, losses or draws taken, and activity.

1A Vitali Lost to Byrd due to a torn shoulder, and Lewis on cuts but was in the lead in both fights. Dominant in all other matches, and forced Lewis to retire rather than re-match.

1B ) Wladimir - Beat better fighters than Vitali, but also lost to guys Vitlai beat in this time line ( Sanders, Purrity ) and had a tougher time with Peter.

3 ) Lewis 6-1 - KO loss to Rhaman and inactivity post 2003 makes him tough to rate higher. If this was a best of the 1990's and 2000's, I would rater Lewis above both Kltischko's

*The Klitschko vs. Lewis re-match and the Klitschko vs Klitschko match would have really put this decade into focus, but we did not see either of them.

After the big three it gets a little dicey.

4 ) Povetkin - Still undefeated in 2012, Povetkin defeated Chambers, Byrd, and Donald from 2000-2009. Byrd and Donald were on the decline though

5 Chagaev - Wins over Ruiz and Valuev earn him this spot. Only lost was to Wladimir

6 ) Byrd- Wins over Tua and Vitali look great, but one sided losses to Wlad, Povetkin do not. Byrd was lucky to draw with Golota, and should have lost a decision to Oquendo.

7 ) Rhaman Wins over Lewis and Sanders are huge, but losses to Holyfield, Ruiz, Klitschko and Maskeav force me to grade him down.

8 ) Ruiz - lost to Valuev 2x, Chagaev, Roy Jones, and Holyfield. Loss to Toney changed to a ND due to Toney's positive drug test. Essentially he was beaten by blown up middles, Wins over Holyfield, Rhaman, and Golota keep him in the top ten.

9 ) Sanders - Has the blow out win over Wlad, but lost to Vitali and Rhaman.

10 ) Ibragimov. Easily defeated Briggs and Holyfield. lost a decision to Wlad. Probably retired too soon

I totally agree. Ibragimov retired too soon. Would've been awesome if he'd stuck around just long enough to at least fight Chagaev and Povetkin. I think he very well could've taken either one of them.

"Awesome?"

bump, how did the system hold up in this decade?

It never did, why would it be any different here?

This thread just reminds me how depressing the 00s were for heavyweight boxing.

Take Lewis out of the equation & there's no-one else to get excited about.

The fighting doctors are good competent fighters & definitely stand out too, but they certainly don't excite me.

Lets hope this decade turns out to be better, although it wouldn't surprise me if Wladimir was still HW champ on 31st December 2019. :P

For me Lewis, the Klitschko brothers and Byrd and Ruiz are locks for the top 5.

where is john ruiz on the list?

dan28uk wrote:where is john ruiz on the list?

Getting beaten by Lewis, Toney, Valuev, Chagaev and Jones Jr. And just about to be beaten David Haye.

He did start off with a bang against an aging HOlyfield though.

dan28uk wrote:where is john ruiz on the list?

For some reason Boilermaker is overly critical of Ruiz yet not of other fighters...

Crease wrote:

dan28uk wrote:where is john ruiz on the list?

For some reason Boilermaker is overly critical of Ruiz yet not of other fighters...

He lost to and wasnt as good as those 5 boxers. Do you think otherwise?

He wasnt as good as several others in the decade such as the two klitchsko brothers and Chris Byrd. Again, do you think otherwise.

He had some good wins, beating Holyfield as i mentioned (though an aged Holyfield who lost to Toney and Byrd also probably shaded their series also and at worst it was even) so you should probably rate him behind them. This leaves 9 guys who he most rank behind. He has some decent results, and he definitely fought some good fighters (better than most) but that doesnt really help too much if you lose 50% of them and were beaten by nearly all of the very best ones you fought. Rahman is probably his best win on paper, but Rahman has some question marks himself.

Ruiz held a belt for a long time and was always a top figther, but he was never the best fighter in the world.

Boilermaker wrote:

Crease wrote:

dan28uk wrote:where is john ruiz on the list?

For some reason Boilermaker is overly critical of Ruiz yet not of other fighters...

He lost to and wasnt as good as those 5 boxers. Do you think otherwise?

He wasnt as good as several others in the decade such as the two klitchsko brothers and Chris Byrd. Again, do you think otherwise.

He had some good wins, beating Holyfield as i mentioned (though an aged Holyfield who lost to Toney and Byrd also probably shaded their series also and at worst it was even) so you should probably rate him behind them. This leaves 9 guys who he most rank behind. He has some decent results, and he definitely fought some good fighters (better than most) but that doesnt really help too much if you lose 50% of them and were beaten by nearly all of the very best ones you fought. Rahman is probably his best win on paper, but Rahman has some question marks himself.

Ruiz held a belt for a long time and was always a top figther, but he was never the best fighter in the world.

Neither were most of the fighters on your list.