BoxRec

At 175 pounds,who would win between the great crowd pleasing Franklin, against the talented
Roy Jones jr.?

Roy would run like the wind, and it gets him a decision.

I'd honestly back Saad (at least over 15). He had the offensive technique, punching power, and grit to shut down Roy's offense. I love Roy, but I find him incredibly overrated at Lt. Heavy.

King Carlos wrote:I'd honestly back Saad (at least over 15). He had the offensive technique, punching power, and grit to shut down Roy's offense. I love Roy, but I find him incredibly overrated at Lt. Heavy.

I agree with you. MSM would absorb Roy Jones's early attack, and eventually wear down Roy in the later rds for a tko. Mathew fought better Lhs and was battle tested...

beaujack wrote:

King Carlos wrote:I'd honestly back Saad (at least over 15). He had the offensive technique, punching power, and grit to shut down Roy's offense. I love Roy, but I find him incredibly overrated at Lt. Heavy.

I agree with you. MSM would absorb Roy Jones's early attack, and eventually wear down Roy in the later rds for a tko. Mathew fought better Lhs and was battle tested...

Are you going to argue that Johnson, Lopez or a past-his-best Conteh were better than a peak Jones Jr at 175??

Saad's style is tailor made for Roy . . slow starter, low work-rate, plodding footwork. Saad could turn on his dramatic late fight combacks vs defensively porous guys who kept boring in, but Roy was no fool and he'd just keep piling on the points and fight overly defensively if he had to at times in the late rounds to win a decisive decision.

I agree with the outcome, but Saad certainly didn't have a low work rate. Roy would fight overly defensive from bell to bell, and I don't see it being very close either.

dempseyfire wrote:

beaujack wrote:

King Carlos wrote:I'd honestly back Saad (at least over 15). He had the offensive technique, punching power, and grit to shut down Roy's offense. I love Roy, but I find him incredibly overrated at Lt. Heavy.

I agree with you. MSM would absorb Roy Jones's early attack, and eventually wear down Roy in the later rds for a tko. Mathew fought better Lhs and was battle tested...

Are you going to argue that Johnson, Lopez or a past-his-best Conteh were better than a peak Jones Jr at 175??

Saad's style is tailor made for Roy . . slow starter, low work-rate, plodding footwork. Saad could turn on his dramatic late fight combacks vs defensively porous guys who kept boring in, but Roy was no fool and he'd just keep piling on the points and fight overly defensively if he had to at times in the late rounds to win a decisive decision.

Conteh was a better Lt. Heavy than Jones, yes. That first fight was his last hurrah, and one of his better defensive performances on film. I don't see Jones doing any better, and I doubt he hangs in there like Conteh did. If he does manage to hold on, it would be at the expense of offensive out-put.

Conteh wasn't better than Roy. Not even close.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Conteh wasn't better than Roy. Not even close.

Yep, and Mosley hit harder than Tua, and Morales had better defensive skills than Chucho Castillo. Whatever you say, brah.

Yawn

Conteh was like the 70s version of Virgil Hill (and I'd rank Conteh over Hill, but I don't think the differrence is massive). We saw how Roy handled Hill. If you think Roy doesn't possess qualities Conteh lacked vs Saad, then you are just reading from a totally different playbook.

And sure, Conteh showed good defense vs Saad, but so what? He barely threw the right all night, clearly weary of throwing too many due to his prior hand injuries. I can definitely see a peak Conteh from 4 years earlier not getting knocked down late and winning a decision from Muhammad.

Do you see a Conteh that could avoid getting his ass whipped by Burnett? As much as I hate to admit it, Jones was greater than Saad, it isn't even a discussion with Conteh. Unless you're talking to someone who thinks Chuco Castillo was greater than Erik Morales and Mike Tyson was a top 5 Heavyweight.

Conteh was a waste of talent, there's no doubt about that, but he was one of the most talented Lt. Heavies I've ever seen in the early 70's, before the problems with his right hand and before he started squandering that talent with his lack of discipline. Based on how he'd looked in previous performances, you'd think Saad would've blitzed him, but Conteh put it all out there one final time and boxed beautifully for most of the fight. A young Conteh could box exceptionally well (one of the best left hands I've ever seen), could dig down and fight in the trenches with the best, and had very good power. He also had the grit and the venom to succeed when the fights weren't going his way (see the Bennett and Ahumada fights). That didn't last long, unfortunately. Women and cocaine have a tendency to do that kind of thing to a man.

Comparing him to the Lt. Heavyweight version of Sammy Serrano in Virgil Hill is a gross insult to his abilities. Makes me think you're only remembering the late 70's, left-hand reliant version (although he showed when his heart was in it that he could still box exceptionally well even with that handicap, as the Lopez fight attested to).

King Carlos wrote:Conteh was a waste of talent, there's no doubt about that, but he was one of the most talented Lt. Heavies I've ever seen in the early 70's, before the problems with his right hand and before he started squandering that talent with his lack of discipline. Based on how he'd looked in previous performances, you'd think Saad would've blitzed him, but Conteh put it all out there one final time and boxed beautifully for most of the fight. A young Conteh could box exceptionally well (one of the best left hands I've ever seen), could dig down and fight in the trenches with the best, and had very good power. He also had the grit and the venom to succeed when the fights weren't going his way (see the Bennett and Ahumada fights). That didn't last long, unfortunately. Women and cocaine have a tendency to do that kind of thing to a man.

Comparing him to the Lt. Heavyweight version of Sammy Serrano in Virgil Hill is a gross insult to his abilities. Makes me think you're only remembering the late 70's, left-hand reliant version (although he showed when his heart was in it that he could still box exceptionally well even with that handicap, as the Lopez fight attested to).

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Conteh wasn't better than Roy. Not even close.

Switch the names, and your statement is 100% correct.

I see Jones, Jr outboxing Saad for ten rounds, and then Saad applies the pressure and wins by a late KO. Jones did not have a great chin. Jones had great reflexes, speed and power. Great ring generalship. But his power was not enough to stop Saad. Saad was one of the toughest men I have seen in my lifetime.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Roy would run like the wind, and it gets him a decision.

That's the way I see it too.

dempseyfire wrote:Conteh was like the 70s version of Virgil Hill (and I'd rank Conteh over Hill, but I don't think the differrence is massive). We saw how Roy handled Hill. If you think Roy doesn't possess qualities Conteh lacked vs Saad, then you are just reading from a totally different playbook.

And sure, Conteh showed good defense vs Saad, but so what? He barely threw the right all night, clearly weary of throwing too many due to his prior hand injuries. I can definitely see a peak Conteh from 4 years earlier not getting knocked down late and winning a decision from Muhammad.

Hill (who I agree was not that great) was past his best when he fought Jones.

I could see Jones getting well ahead and hanging on for the decision. It might make a difference if the fight was for 15 rounds. Saad would have a better chance if that was the case.
Not that Jones would have taken this fight.

Jones by decision for me.

I think in a best of 3 series, peak Saad could get a win.

Question re the title of the thread:
When was he ever called Matthew Saad Franklin?
I know he was Matthew Franklin and then Matthew Saad Muhammad.

Over 15, Muhammad wins 50/50 by late KO. Over 12, Roy wins every one. Jones is starting to get underrated on here I think; there are certain things that he did better than anyone, ever at that weight. I'd put Spinks, Moore, Charles ahead of him, but not loads of others.

People are too blinded by how Roy has ended up. At his best Franklin would have been dazzled and probably stopped.