BoxRec

at Bantamweight:

Joichiro Tatsuyoshi
Hozumi Hasegawa
Veeraphol Sahaprom
Fighting Harada
Jeff Chandler
Ruben Olivares
Carlos Zarate

I think he breaks Tatsuyoshi. Hasegawa is a possibility as well, although I'm not sure I'd favour him. All the rest beat him handily.

King Carlos wrote:I think he breaks Tatsuyoshi. Hasegawa is a possibility as well, although I'm not sure I'd favour him. All the rest beat him handily.

Tough to beat this guy though, eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txUU8iy3pRI

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

King Carlos wrote:I think he breaks Tatsuyoshi. Hasegawa is a possibility as well, although I'm not sure I'd favour him. All the rest beat him handily.

Tough to beat this guy though, eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txUU8iy3pRI

Amazing fight, but the quality of the bout doesn't make the quality of the fighter, otherwise Gatti would be one of the greatest of all time. Hong was very resilient and debilitating body puncher, but most of the guys you listed were at least a class above.

King Carlos wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

King Carlos wrote:I think he breaks Tatsuyoshi. Hasegawa is a possibility as well, although I'm not sure I'd favour him. All the rest beat him handily.

Tough to beat this guy though, eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txUU8iy3pRI

Amazing fight, but the quality of the bout doesn't make the quality of the fighter, otherwise Gatti would be one of the greatest of all time. Hong was very resilient and debilitating body puncher, but most of the guys you listed were at least a class above.

Apparently he had a great jab.. or at least considered it the most important part of his game. Formidable counter-puncher as well.

Let's add the following to the mix:

Vic Darchinyan
Fernando Montiel
Anselmo Moreno
Lionel Rose
Nana Konadu
Paulie Ayala

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

King Carlos wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:
Tough to beat this guy though, eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txUU8iy3pRI

Amazing fight, but the quality of the bout doesn't make the quality of the fighter, otherwise Gatti would be one of the greatest of all time. Hong was very resilient and debilitating body puncher, but most of the guys you listed were at least a class above.

Apparently he had a great jab.. or at least considered it the most important part of his game. Formidable counter-puncher as well.

Let's add the following to the mix:

Vic Darchinyan
Fernando Montiel
Anselmo Moreno
Lionel Rose
Nana Konadu
Paulie Ayala

I never saw anything great about his jab, to be honest.

He loses to the latter 3, with Ayala making for the best fight. A fight with Vic is a tough call, and I'll refrain from commenting on Moreno, having only seen highlights of his bout with Vic. I'd take him over Montiel, though.

King Carlos wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

King Carlos wrote:Amazing fight, but the quality of the bout doesn't make the quality of the fighter, otherwise Gatti would be one of the greatest of all time. Hong was very resilient and debilitating body puncher, but most of the guys you listed were at least a class above.

Apparently he had a great jab.. or at least considered it the most important part of his game. Formidable counter-puncher as well.

Let's add the following to the mix:

Vic Darchinyan
Fernando Montiel
Anselmo Moreno
Lionel Rose
Nana Konadu
Paulie Ayala

I never saw anything great about his jab, to be honest.

He loses to the latter 3, with Ayala making for the best fight. A fight with Vic is a tough call, and I'll refrain from commenting on Moreno, having only seen highlights of his bout with Vic. I'd take him over Montiel, though.

How would you rank all the fighters listed so far (from 1 - 14)?
Who would win a "Super Fourteen" Tournament between them?

Soo-Hwan Hong
Joichiro Tatsuyoshi
Hozumi Hasegawa
Veeraphol Sahaprom
Fighting Harada
Jeff Chandler
Ruben Olivares
Carlos Zarate
Vic Darchinyan
Fernando Montiel
Anselmo Moreno
Lionel Rose
Nana Konadu
Paulie Ayala

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

King Carlos wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:
Apparently he had a great jab.. or at least considered it the most important part of his game. Formidable counter-puncher as well.

Let's add the following to the mix:

Vic Darchinyan
Fernando Montiel
Anselmo Moreno
Lionel Rose
Nana Konadu
Paulie Ayala

I never saw anything great about his jab, to be honest.

He loses to the latter 3, with Ayala making for the best fight. A fight with Vic is a tough call, and I'll refrain from commenting on Moreno, having only seen highlights of his bout with Vic. I'd take him over Montiel, though.

How would you rank all the fighters listed so far (from 1 - 14)?
Who would win a "Super Fourteen" Tournament between them?

Soo-Hwan Hong
Joichiro Tatsuyoshi
Hozumi Hasegawa
Veeraphol Sahaprom
Fighting Harada
Jeff Chandler
Ruben Olivares
Carlos Zarate
Vic Darchinyan
Fernando Montiel
Anselmo Moreno
Lionel Rose
Nana Konadu
Paulie Ayala

Might as well through Lupe Pintor in there too -- best of 15.

Something like this if we're taking everything into account.

Ruben Olivares
Carlos Zarate
Lionel Rose
Fighting Harada
Lupe Pintor
Jeff Chandler
Nana Konadu
Veeraphol Sahaprom
Paulie Ayala
Soo-Hwan Hong
Vic Darchinyan
Hozumi Hasegawa
Joichiro Tatsuyoshi
Fernando Montiel

Don't know enough about Anselmo Moreno, yet.

King Carlos wrote:Something like this if we're taking everything into account.

Ruben Olivares
Carlos Zarate
Lionel Rose
Fighting Harada
Lupe Pintor
Jeff Chandler
Nana Konadu
Veeraphol Sahaprom
Paulie Ayala
Soo-Hwan Hong
Vic Darchinyan
Hozumi Hasegawa
Joichiro Tatsuyoshi
Fernando Montiel

Don't know enough about Anselmo Moreno, yet.

Do you rate Konadu so highly because he beat Veeraphol?

It's interesting to consider the ratings, because many of these boxers actually fought each other.

Tatsuyoshi was lucky to get by Ayala, and of course Hasegawa beat Veeraphol twice (why do you rate Hasegawa so low -- because he lost to Montiel? I think he would have been a favorite against many on this list)?

Also -- I'm watching the video of Hong and thinking: has anyone ever risen from more than four knockdowns to come back and win by KO?

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

King Carlos wrote:Something like this if we're taking everything into account.

Ruben Olivares
Carlos Zarate
Lionel Rose
Fighting Harada
Lupe Pintor
Jeff Chandler
Nana Konadu
Veeraphol Sahaprom
Paulie Ayala
Soo-Hwan Hong
Vic Darchinyan
Hozumi Hasegawa
Joichiro Tatsuyoshi
Fernando Montiel

Don't know enough about Anselmo Moreno, yet.

Do you rate Konadu so highly because he beat Veeraphol?

It's interesting to consider the ratings, because many of these boxers actually fought each other.

Tatsuyoshi was lucky to get by Ayala, and of course Hasegawa beat Veeraphol twice (why do you rate Hasegawa so low -- because he lost to Montiel? I think he would have been a favorite against many on this list)?

Admittedly, I rate Konadu especially highly more based on his work at 115 pounds, but I think he was very formidable fighter at Bantam as well, more so than most on this list.

But yeah, what you mentioned is one of the reasons why it's difficult to make this list, especially toward the bottom half. I don't think Hasegawa beats any of my first 8 listed in their primes, including Sahaprom. From there on it's pretty much a toss-up, although I'd probably keep Montiel and Tatsuyoshi at the bottom.

As for your other question, here's a little tidbit I found:

"The record for most knockdowns in one non-title bout (or any bout probably) had to be when Battling Nelson (one of the toughest boxers ever) was knocked down 7 times..... oh yeah his opponent Christy Williams was knocked down 42 times!! And they thought Nelson was tough. The fight ended in the 17th round with Nelson declared the winner by knockout. "

So, not really a come back KO, but the winner was down 7 times.

King Carlos wrote:As for your other question, here's a little tidbit I found:

"The record for most knockdowns in one non-title bout (or any bout probably) had to be when Battling Nelson (one of the toughest boxers ever) was knocked down 7 times..... oh yeah his opponent Christy Williams was knocked down 42 times!! And they thought Nelson was tough. The fight ended in the 17th round with Nelson declared the winner by knockout. "

So, not really a come back KO, but the winner was down 7 times.

Thanks! Good stuff. I wonder what the record is once we get into the 15-round era though.

Why is Arnold Taylor listed as a southpaw?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4Y3apm03jA