BoxRec

I have this on DVD, and decided to give it a watch for the first time in about two years. Its a panel discussion hosted by Brian Kenny, and involving Bert Sugar, Larry Holmes, Teddy Atlas, Jerry Izenberg, and George Chuvalo.

What does everyone think of Sugar's list?

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Gene Tunney
7. Ezzard Charles
8. George Foreman
9. Joe Frazier
10. Larry Holmes

I think the list is mostly pretty terrible. Sugar also explained he had Evander Holyfield at #11, Jim Jeffries and Mike Tyson around 15, and Lennox Lewis way back at 19. He does not mention Sonny Liston at all.

Gotta say, too, that Holmes was his typical appalling self. His venom toward Foreman knows no bounds, citing his bouts with Briggs, Schultz and Morrison as reasons the prime Foreman couldnt beat him, and completely diminishing the wins over Moorer and Frazier (both are better than any of Holmes' wins). Of course he rated himself at #1, without a hint of humour.

Chuvalo, on the other hand, was a pleasure, and is sharp as a tack. The panel agreed --- save for Sugar --- that Ali would be too good for Louis head-to-head.

I gotta give this list a big thumbs-down. Marciano and Johnson in the top-5, Charles (who is indeed under-rated at Heavy, but cmon) and Tunney ahead of Foreman and Holmes? NO mention of Liston at all?

Would be boring if they were all the same.

Tunney always used to appear in HW top 10s.

Johnson is in my top 5.

Whether you're talking about accomplishment at the weight or a head to head scenerio, Gene Tunney and Ezzard Charles over Frazier, Foreman and Holmes is so f#ckin stupid its hard to believe anyone with an iota of boxing knowledge would rank em like that unless he/she were trolling.

When I religiously read The Ring, KO, BI, BN in the 1980s many experts had Tunney above those guys.

Foreman never made anyone's top ten. Frazier was considered debatable. There was a push for Holmes.

I would take Holmes out and put Tyson in

Sugar's lists always blow. Tunney has no business in the top 10, he is closer to Michael Spinks than anyone on this list. Even Sugar gets that Holyfield > Tyson, I suppose I have to give him credit for that.