BoxRec

Marciano was in training. What does everyone think would happen?

Id go with Marciano, just based off the Johansson vs Patterson trilogy which was around 1960.

The Johansson that showed up in the first Patterson fight would deliver a good fight against Marciano. imo.

Suzy Q v Ingo's Bingo. Suzy Q I think.

I'm very interested in this match-up.

They essentially froze out the title for almost 2 years settling it between them. What I found interesting watching one of the fights (believe it was the first), Sonny Liston is introduced to the crowd as a leading contender for the title and climbs into the ring with them. He looks absolutely huge in his early 60s style suit, I'd have been interested how a fight with Liston and Ingo would have gone, had he opted to defend the title against him.

Rocky did not have the delicate chin of Floyd, Rocky could take the bombs, and just keep going. I don't think he had declined enough to the point of succumbing to the Swede at that time.

orbtastic wrote:They essentially froze out the title for almost 2 years settling it between them. What I found interesting watching one of the fights (believe it was the first), Sonny Liston is introduced to the crowd as a leading contender for the title and climbs into the ring with them. He looks absolutely huge in his early 60s style suit, I'd have been interested how a fight with Liston and Ingo would have gone, had he opted to defend the title against him.

Liston would have punched Ingo senseless.

Rocky had been off four years by 1960. According to all I've read, his only workouts after retiring were walking through airports and exercising his elbow eating his Mamma and wife's pasta. He would have found it impossible to get his old form back. (Indeed, that's why he abandoned the comeback.) He would be facing a prime, confident Ingo. When I think of the result, Cummings v. Frazier comes to mind. I'd take Ingo by decision.

raylawpc wrote:Rocky had been off four years by 1960. According to all I've read, his only workouts after retiring were walking through airports and exercising his elbow eating his Mamma and wife's pasta. He would have found it impossible to get his old form back. (Indeed, that's why he abandoned the comeback.) He would be facing a prime, confident Ingo. When I think of the result, Cummings v. Frazier comes to mind. I'd take Ingo by decision.

Yeah ok.....that could play out. I forget about just how "domestic" retirement can make you.

Rocky always found a way to win.

so I'll have to with Rocky

raylawpc wrote:Rocky had been off four years by 1960. According to all I've read, his only workouts after retiring were walking through airports and exercising his elbow eating his Mamma and wife's pasta. He would have found it impossible to get his old form back. (Indeed, that's why he abandoned the comeback.) He would be facing a prime, confident Ingo. When I think of the result, Cummings v. Frazier comes to mind. I'd take Ingo by decision.

I think you're right.

yancey wrote:

orbtastic wrote:They essentially froze out the title for almost 2 years settling it between them. What I found interesting watching one of the fights (believe it was the first), Sonny Liston is introduced to the crowd as a leading contender for the title and climbs into the ring with them. He looks absolutely huge in his early 60s style suit, I'd have been interested how a fight with Liston and Ingo would have gone, had he opted to defend the title against him.

Liston would have punched Ingo senseless.

I know you're right.

raylawpc wrote:Rocky had been off four years by 1960. According to all I've read, his only workouts after retiring were walking through airports and exercising his elbow eating his Mamma and wife's pasta. He would have found it impossible to get his old form back. (Indeed, that's why he abandoned the comeback.) He would be facing a prime, confident Ingo. When I think of the result, Cummings v. Frazier comes to mind. I'd take Ingo by decision.

This is how i see it, although i dont think that Rocky is a sure bet to make the final bell. As well as Frazier v Cummings, Consider Sullivan v Corbett, Jeffries v Johnson, Ali v Holmes, Tyson v Lewis, the list is pretty much endless. I think Ingo (who is underated) KOs him based solely on the effects of youth and father time. Prime for prime is obviously different, though still a pretty decent fight.

JDC wrote:I'm very interested in this match-up.

As am I. Over the years that I have been interested in boxing, I've heard more than a few rumours that Marciano fought under different names and that he lost fights.
Of course, none of this has actually proven to be true and I don't believe it.

I have also heard the fallacy that Valdez was due to fight Rocky but Marciano ran... That is a joke and a slur on the name of the great man.

The truth is Johansson was really going to be Marciano's 50th fight. But Marciano was an intesne character, if he couldn;t give it his all - then he wouldn't have competed.

Would have been an entertaining fight. But you know, I really wouldn't have bet against The Brockton Blaockbuster on this one.

Rocky was definately going to fight Ingo,but only provided if he won the 2nd bout with Patterson.
Rocky liked his style against Ingo's style,he didnt like his style vs Floyd's though. Never did,and Thats why he abandoned the comeback after Floyd flattened Ingo in the rematch. This was all according to the aware words of Bert Sugar.

AngryGoon38 wrote:Rocky was definately going to fight Ingo,but only provided if he won the 2nd bout with Patterson.
Rocky liked his style against Ingo's style,he didnt like his style vs Floyd's though. Never did,and Thats why he abandoned the comeback after Floyd flattened Ingo in the rematch. This was all according to the aware words of Bert Sugar.

And we all know his reliability...heres a direct quote from Marciano himself, when asked if he would beat Patterson (in his pomp, mind, not 1960)...

"Id be bragging if I said I could, but Id be lying if I said I couldnt."

raylawpc wrote:Rocky had been off four years by 1960. According to all I've read, his only workouts after retiring were walking through airports and exercising his elbow eating his Mamma and wife's pasta. He would have found it impossible to get his old form back. (Indeed, that's why he abandoned the comeback.) He would be facing a prime, confident Ingo. When I think of the result, Cummings v. Frazier comes to mind. I'd take Ingo by decision.

You speak sense. The reason why the fight didn't happen is because Rock admitted after a few weeks training that it was ridiculous him trying to get back into that sort of shape.

Had he proceeded anyway he would have been sent back into retirement 49-1.

I distinctly remember what Bert Sugar said and it makes the most sense. The 1960 version of Rocky realized he definately could'nt beat Patterson,especially after Patterson-Ingo II. Rocky really liked his chances against Ingo even if he had beat Patterson in the 2nd bout. That was what his comeback was all based on. He felt he still had the style to beat Ingemar but definately felt he wasnt fast enough anymore to catch the likes of Patterson. When he made the hint statement about "It'd be a lie if i said i could'nt beat Patterson" , Rocky was obviously referring to the quicker prime version of himself.

Rocky knew by 1960 that he was just too slow by then for Patterson but still had the punch and still quick enough for the considerably slower Johansson. He knew he could catch Ingemar but probably would'nt be able to land the big punch on the much quicker and slicker Patterson.

AngryGoon38 wrote:I distinctly remember what Bert Sugar said and it makes the most sense. The 1960 version of Rocky realized he definately could'nt beat Patterson,especially after Patterson-Ingo II. Rocky really liked his chances against Ingo even if he had beat Patterson in the 2nd bout. That was what his comeback was all based on. He felt he still had the style to beat Ingemar but definately felt he wasnt fast enough anymore to catch the likes of Patterson. When he made the hint statement about "It'd be a lie if i said i could'nt beat Patterson" , Rocky was obviously referring to the quicker prime version of himself.

Rocky knew by 1960 that he was just too slow by then for Patterson but still had the punch and still quick enough for the considerably slower Johansson. He knew he could catch Ingemar but probably would'nt be able to land the big punch on the much quicker and slicker Patterson.

Then why did he stop training when Ingo was still champion?

Did he? Ive never examined it beyond face value and the word usually is he abandoned the return IN RESPONSE to Johansson loring.

I have examined it and Rocky gave up training whilst Ingo was champ because he felt it was ridiculous what he was attempting to do and admitted so to his associates. He thought Ingo couldn't fight at all but couldn't get back into fighting shape.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Did he? Ive never examined it beyond face value and the word usually is he abandoned the return IN RESPONSE to Johansson loring.

Yes.

yancey wrote:

orbtastic wrote:They essentially froze out the title for almost 2 years settling it between them. What I found interesting watching one of the fights (believe it was the first), Sonny Liston is introduced to the crowd as a leading contender for the title and climbs into the ring with them. He looks absolutely huge in his early 60s style suit, I'd have been interested how a fight with Liston and Ingo would have gone, had he opted to defend the title against him.

Liston would have punched Ingo senseless.

As bad a beating as George Foreman put on a peak Joe Frazier.

Giancarlo wrote:

yancey wrote:

orbtastic wrote:They essentially froze out the title for almost 2 years settling it between them. What I found interesting watching one of the fights (believe it was the first), Sonny Liston is introduced to the crowd as a leading contender for the title and climbs into the ring with them. He looks absolutely huge in his early 60s style suit, I'd have been interested how a fight with Liston and Ingo would have gone, had he opted to defend the title against him.

Liston would have punched Ingo senseless.

As bad a beating as George Foreman put on a peak Joe Frazier.

"peak"



Thanks for the laugh, Connie.

But even you aren't that dumb to truly think Frazier was at his peak.

The issues about Frazier winning the Big One just won't go away, will they?

Beat him up in the street, Collie! You dont have to take that!