I'm surprised at that stage in his career Ali could do so well, even in an exhibition. Considering in 1979 he looked severely out of shape and was so slow, that he couldn't hurt Lyle Alzado in their exhibition (which at times did get serious) or do nothing against Scott LeDoux and John L. Gardner when he did exhibitions in London.
Re: Muhammad Ali vs Russian boxers(1978)
Posted: 24 Dec 2012, 08:56
by Bricks
Its great posters like you two who are keeping this forum alive after all the damage that was done to it in recent years by the aussie and his girlfriend
Re: Muhammad Ali vs Russian boxers(1978)
Posted: 26 Dec 2012, 20:14
by Flump
Great work Brutu.
I wonder how much of the long term damage that Ali sustained was due to his sparring habits and seemingly endless exhibition schedule.
Re: Muhammad Ali vs Russian boxers(1978)
Posted: 01 Nov 2014, 12:47
by Caractacus
Is there a better video quality then this one?
Re: Muhammad Ali vs Russian boxers(1978)
Posted: 02 Nov 2014, 12:24
by ThatOne
Flump wrote:Great work Brutu.
I wonder how much of the long term damage that Ali sustained was due to his sparring habits and seemingly endless exhibition schedule.
I could be off because I'm doing this from recollection but Mark Kram figured Ali fought 20,000 rounds if you include the amateurs and sparring. He also remarked as did Cus D'Amato that he liked to get hit in the gym.
Re: Muhammad Ali vs Russian boxers(1978)
Posted: 12 Jul 2023, 00:47
by dawudboxer
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑22 Dec 2012, 13:15
I'm surprised at that stage in his career Ali could do so well, even in an exhibition. Considering in 1979 he looked severely out of shape and was so slow, that he couldn't hurt Lyle Alzado in their exhibition (which at times did get serious) or do nothing against Scott LeDoux and John L. Gardner when he did exhibitions in London.
Hi, are those exhibitions with Ledoux and Gardner confirmed? Do you know the dates or how many rounds they boxed? Thanks
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑22 Dec 2012, 13:15
I'm surprised at that stage in his career Ali could do so well, even in an exhibition. Considering in 1979 he looked severely out of shape and was so slow, that he couldn't hurt Lyle Alzado in their exhibition (which at times did get serious) or do nothing against Scott LeDoux and John L. Gardner when he did exhibitions in London.
Hi, are those exhibitions with Ledoux and Gardner confirmed? Do you know the dates or how many rounds they boxed? Thanks
I know he fought an exhibition with Gardner on 29th May 1979 at the RAH..he also fought Lottie Mwale and Joe Awome...Ali was apparently 250lbs plus...
Re: Muhammad Ali vs Russian boxers(1978)
Posted: 12 Jul 2023, 13:58
by evrenb
The Ledoux exhibition was 1977 I believe unless they fought twice ....
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑22 Dec 2012, 13:15
I'm surprised at that stage in his career Ali could do so well, even in an exhibition. Considering in 1979 he looked severely out of shape and was so slow, that he couldn't hurt Lyle Alzado in their exhibition (which at times did get serious) or do nothing against Scott LeDoux and John L. Gardner when he did exhibitions in London.
Hi, are those exhibitions with Ledoux and Gardner confirmed? Do you know the dates or how many rounds they boxed? Thanks
I know he fought an exhibition with Gardner on 29th May 1979 at the RAH..he also fought Lottie Mwale and Joe Awome...Ali was apparently 250lbs plus...
Have you got any link to that info so can add them to my Ali exhibition record and include the source? Thanks
Re: Muhammad Ali vs Russian boxers(1978)
Posted: 13 Jul 2023, 12:32
by dawudboxer
evrenb wrote: ↑12 Jul 2023, 13:58
The Ledoux exhibition was 1977 I believe unless they fought twice ....
Don't know an exact date?Thanks
Re: Muhammad Ali vs Russian boxers(1978)
Posted: 13 Jul 2023, 14:30
by Caractacus
i remember there was a book published years ago and it listed in the back quite as number of Ali's exhibition fights.
( a few of which were with Scott Ledoux)
It reminded me of Joe Loui's 1977 autobiography that listed his public exhibitions ( but not private exhibitions that he gave during his boxing career)
Brutu wrote: ↑02 Feb 2012, 22:31
when Ali went to Moscow Russia in 1978,he did an exhibition with three top
Soviet amateur heavyweights,including
Igor Vysotsky and Evgeny Gorstkov
Very good. The match features two men outside of their prime. Vysotsky in his day was a two handed puncher who could delver a KO blow with either had at any range. If he went professional he could have been the heavyweight champion of the world as he was 2-1 vs. the great Teofilo Stevenson. One of the wins being by knock out. But Russian's did not go pro, or rather were not allowed to in the 1970's.
Brutu wrote: ↑02 Feb 2012, 22:31
when Ali went to Moscow Russia in 1978,he did an exhibition with three top
Soviet amateur heavyweights,including
Igor Vysotsky and Evgeny Gorstkov
Very good. The match features two men outside of their prime. Vysotsky in his day was a two handed puncher who could delver a KO blow with either had at any range. If he went professional he could have been the heavyweight champion of the world as he was 2-1 vs. the great Teofilo Stevenson. One of the wins being by knock out. But Russian's did not go pro, or rather were not allowed to in the 1970's.
He could have been heavyweight champion because he beat another amateur twice? The list of great amateurs who were pro busts is almost as long as the list of unremarkable amateurs who became great pros.
Imagine if Jorge Luis Gonzalez had never defected from Cuba. To this day message boards would be full of Gonzalez-would-have-been-champ talk. A 6'7'' puncher who beat Stevenson, Bowe and Lewis! The 90s would have been his era! He would have been an almost mythological monster.
Brutu wrote: ↑02 Feb 2012, 22:31
when Ali went to Moscow Russia in 1978,he did an exhibition with three top
Soviet amateur heavyweights,including
Igor Vysotsky and Evgeny Gorstkov
Very good. The match features two men outside of their prime. Vysotsky in his day was a two handed puncher who could delver a KO blow with either had at any range. If he went professional he could have been the heavyweight champion of the world as he was 2-1 vs. the great Teofilo Stevenson. One of the wins being by knock out. But Russian's did not go pro, or rather were not allowed to in the 1970's.
Vysotsky was the best known Soviet heavyweight of his era, no doubt. That's because of his Stevenson victories. But Igor never won a single Soviet, continental, or world title. He was prone to cuts, and against the best, could be TKO'd for this reason. Also, he was flatfooted and rather mechanical, meaning he could be outboxed.
But he fought like a main battle tank: rugged, indestructible, and carrying brutal, one-punch KO power in either mitt. Vystosky nearly ran Stevenson out of the ring in their second bout, which featured the Cuban floored twice and knocked out.
I've read that Vysotsky's abilities are a question of perception. Some people believe he warrants attention as one of the world's best amateur heavies. Others dismiss Igor as a mediocrity, just a hard-hitting club-fighter of no note.
Brutu wrote: ↑02 Feb 2012, 22:31
when Ali went to Moscow Russia in 1978,he did an exhibition with three top
Soviet amateur heavyweights,including
Igor Vysotsky and Evgeny Gorstkov
Very good. The match features two men outside of their prime. Vysotsky in his day was a two handed puncher who could delver a KO blow with either had at any range. If he went professional he could have been the heavyweight champion of the world as he was 2-1 vs. the great Teofilo Stevenson. One of the wins being by knock out. But Russian's did not go pro, or rather were not allowed to in the 1970's.
Vysotsky was the best known Soviet heavyweight of his era, no doubt. That's because of his Stevenson victories. But Igor never won a single Soviet, continental, or world title. He was prone to cuts, and against the best, could be TKO'd for this reason. Also, he was flatfooted and rather mechanical, meaning he could be outboxed.
But he fought like a main battle tank: rugged, indestructible, and carrying brutal, one-punch KO power in either mitt. Vystosky nearly ran Stevenson out of the ring in their second bout, which featured the Cuban floored twice and knocked out.
I've read that Vysotsky's abilities are a question of perception. Some people believe he warrants attention as one of the world's best amateur heavies. Others dismiss Igor as a mediocrity, just a hard-hitting club-fighter of no note.
This is a western internet view of him. Vysotsky did not have a problem with cuts until later in his career. He has over 100 matches and back then there was no headgear. I think he only lost on cuts twice. He withdrew from some torments due the damage sustained after beating 2 or 3 guys in the week. As a professional this problem would be less. This is not to say he didn't cut.
Go get a real view of his abilities you need to view him in prime. The man was never floored and had a very dynamic forward moving type of style in the early to mid 1970s' where he would quickly get into range and unload punches. He was something of a two handed Joe Frazier though not that dynamic. He was also a southpaw.
He was not a club mediocre fighter. Ask around with fellows in the known or watch Russian RU you tube to see him in his prime.
By the way he passed recently. He was an old warrior type who hung around the gym so I told.
Very good. The match features two men outside of their prime. Vysotsky in his day was a two handed puncher who could delver a KO blow with either had at any range. If he went professional he could have been the heavyweight champion of the world as he was 2-1 vs. the great Teofilo Stevenson. One of the wins being by knock out. But Russian's did not go pro, or rather were not allowed to in the 1970's.
Vysotsky was the best known Soviet heavyweight of his era, no doubt. That's because of his Stevenson victories. But Igor never won a single Soviet, continental, or world title. He was prone to cuts, and against the best, could be TKO'd for this reason. Also, he was flatfooted and rather mechanical, meaning he could be outboxed.
But he fought like a main battle tank: rugged, indestructible, and carrying brutal, one-punch KO power in either mitt. Vystosky nearly ran Stevenson out of the ring in their second bout, which featured the Cuban floored twice and knocked out.
I've read that Vysotsky's abilities are a question of perception. Some people believe he warrants attention as one of the world's best amateur heavies. Others dismiss Igor as a mediocrity, just a hard-hitting club-fighter of no note.
This is a western internet view of him. Vysotsky did not have a problem with cuts until later in his career. He has over 100 matches and back then there was no headgear. I think he only lost on cuts twice. He withdrew from some torments due the damage sustained after beating 2 or 3 guys in the week. As a professional this problem would be less. This is not to say he didn't cut.
Go get a real view of his abilities you need to view him in prime. The man was never floored and had a very dynamic forward moving type of style in the early to mid 1970s' where he would quickly get into range and unload punches. He was something of a two handed Joe Frazier though not that dynamic. He was also a southpaw.
He was not a club mediocre fighter. Ask around with fellows in the known or watch Russian RU you tube to see him in his prime.
By the way he passed recently. He was an old warrior type who hung around the gym so I told.
Interesting info, I've heard some of it before though. BTW, are you certain Vysotsky was southpaw? I'm pretty certain it's the opposite, because he was famous for his left-hook.
I first saw Vysotsky in 1975, when the Soviet heavyweights came to tour the US. On rare occasions in subsequent years I'd see Igor on live TV: he lost a nod to Greg Page in 1978, for example. During that period I read about Vysotsky too.
It's too bad that copies of Igor's 1973 and 1976 Stevenson fights aren't circulating in the West, or anywhere else.
As for USSR's best heavyweight during that period, it's generally agreed to be Evgeny Gorstkov, correct? That was case, more or less, from 1976 through 1980, based on what I read. As for Igor, he was retired by 1981 or 1982.
Vysotsky was the best known Soviet heavyweight of his era, no doubt. That's because of his Stevenson victories. But Igor never won a single Soviet, continental, or world title. He was prone to cuts, and against the best, could be TKO'd for this reason. Also, he was flatfooted and rather mechanical, meaning he could be outboxed.
But he fought like a main battle tank: rugged, indestructible, and carrying brutal, one-punch KO power in either mitt. Vystosky nearly ran Stevenson out of the ring in their second bout, which featured the Cuban floored twice and knocked out.
I've read that Vysotsky's abilities are a question of perception. Some people believe he warrants attention as one of the world's best amateur heavies. Others dismiss Igor as a mediocrity, just a hard-hitting club-fighter of no note.
This is a western internet view of him. Vysotsky did not have a problem with cuts until later in his career. He has over 100 matches and back then there was no headgear. I think he only lost on cuts twice. He withdrew from some torments due the damage sustained after beating 2 or 3 guys in the week. As a professional this problem would be less. This is not to say he didn't cut.
Go get a real view of his abilities you need to view him in prime. The man was never floored and had a very dynamic forward moving type of style in the early to mid 1970s' where he would quickly get into range and unload punches. He was something of a two handed Joe Frazier though not that dynamic. He was also a southpaw.
He was not a club mediocre fighter. Ask around with fellows in the known or watch Russian RU you tube to see him in his prime.
By the way he passed recently. He was an old warrior type who hung around the gym so I told.
Interesting info, I've heard some of it before though. BTW, are you certain Vysotsky was southpaw? I'm pretty certain it's the opposite, because he was famous for his left-hook.
I first saw Vysotsky in 1975, when the Soviet heavyweights came to tour the US. On rare occasions in subsequent years I'd see Igor on live TV: he lost a nod to Greg Page in 1978, for example. During that period I read about Vysotsky too.
It's too bad that copies of Igor's 1973 and 1976 Stevenson fights aren't circulating in the West, or anywhere else.
As for USSR's best heavyweight during that period, it's generally agreed to be Evgeny Gorstkov, correct? That was case, more or less, from 1976 through 1980, based on what I read. As for Igor, he was retired by 1981 or 1982.
Vysotsky lost the decision in the USA due to politics. By 1978 he was in decline.
He beat Tony Tubbs via KO. He holds a win over Mitch " blood " Green, Those are the notable professionals he fought.
Yes, he was a converted lefty. Also a Russian Jew, who wasn't accepted openly by all Russians.
This is a western internet view of him. Vysotsky did not have a problem with cuts until later in his career. He has over 100 matches and back then there was no headgear. I think he only lost on cuts twice. He withdrew from some torments due the damage sustained after beating 2 or 3 guys in the week. As a professional this problem would be less. This is not to say he didn't cut.
Go get a real view of his abilities you need to view him in prime. The man was never floored and had a very dynamic forward moving type of style in the early to mid 1970s' where he would quickly get into range and unload punches. He was something of a two handed Joe Frazier though not that dynamic. He was also a southpaw.
He was not a club mediocre fighter. Ask around with fellows in the known or watch Russian RU you tube to see him in his prime.
By the way he passed recently. He was an old warrior type who hung around the gym so I told.
Interesting info, I've heard some of it before though. BTW, are you certain Vysotsky was southpaw? I'm pretty certain it's the opposite, because he was famous for his left-hook.
I first saw Vysotsky in 1975, when the Soviet heavyweights came to tour the US. On rare occasions in subsequent years I'd see Igor on live TV: he lost a nod to Greg Page in 1978, for example. During that period I read about Vysotsky too.
It's too bad that copies of Igor's 1973 and 1976 Stevenson fights aren't circulating in the West, or anywhere else.
As for USSR's best heavyweight during that period, it's generally agreed to be Evgeny Gorstkov, correct? That was case, more or less, from 1976 through 1980, based on what I read. As for Igor, he was retired by 1981 or 1982.
Vysotsky lost the decision in the USA due to politics. By 1978 he was in decline.
He beat Tony Tubbs via KO. He holds a win over Mitch " blood " Green, Those are the notable professionals he fought.
Yes, he was a converted lefty. Also a Russian Jew, who wasn't accepted openly by all Russians.
I saw Page-Vysotsky televised live in late 1977 or early 1978. I remember thinking the decision was fair. Page appeared to have outboxed Igor by a narrow but clear margin.
Vysotsky relentlessly stalked Page, but never found the positioning to fire his bombs against the bouncing, elusive American. Nobody was hurt or cut, but Page's left-jabs made the difference on the scorecards.